===[COMMITTED]=== Spartan Structures

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Stables need horse butts. See Persian stables. Archery Range is very distinguishable, nice. Siege workshop needs unfinished siege engines or something out front, then it will pop. The "gerousia" actor is just the Athenian Prytaneion, it was the old "Tholos" actor before. So, I suggest maybe using the one you have here as the basis for an updated Athenian Prytaneion, and coming up with something more distinctive for the Gerousia. Maybe something like this:

But sadly some of the details are quite fanciful. Likely the Gerousia was just some plain building, similar to the Syssition. Somethings I really miss from your Barracks that were on the "old" one are the Spartan shields. Adding those back would add some nice player color and more Spartan motifs from the shield designs. Plus give it a more martial look.

For Artemis Orthia, what about a super super Archaic looking temple surrounded by some nice gardens and a couple statues of Artemis out front? Just a thought.

But I'm a liar and not someone to take seriously.

Edited October 15, 2017 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Lion.Kanzen]

Quote

But I'm a liar and not someone to take seriously.

I'm trust in you, don't be like that...

[LordGood]

2 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

But I'm a liar and not someone to take seriously.

hoo I almost took you seriously there, careful. I'm easily misled

I do agree with most of that, the horse butts should be easy, the horse actors for the persian stables are animated, if a little small. I'm not sure about the gerousia, its mechanically identical to the prytaneion, could be easier for players to familiarize themselves with them if they're visually similar as well. I know that doesnt hold to the gymnasion and syssition, but maybe a little coherence is better than none. Or not, i dunno.

Full-on archaic is a good sausage license, I like it

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

My advice would be to not go too far with making the syssition and the gymnasion similar.  The former is basically just a glorified cafeteria.

Edited October 16, 2017 by Thorfinn the Shallow Minded

[LordGood]

Kinda small wonder, the temenos fills out the footprint nicely. also pedestal is for a statue i haven't made yet or something

blah bla bla bla cypresses are neat

once again, the dock is last

[av93]

So, finally, this a artistic representation of a old Artemis Orthia before romans?

What about the left temple, why the "temenos" have a weird form?

[LordGood]

its more of a terrain-hugging 'acropolis' temenos that jaggedly follows elevation contours, i find the shape to be much more visually interesting than a rectangular one. Unfortunately i couldnt find much on the sanctuary before the Romans, so i gleaned what I could from the archeological plan and injected a fair amount of 'artistic BS'

[sphyrth]

I'm loling at wow's saltiness. But obviously, he still loves the game and is still helping... which is the important part.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

7 hours ago, LordGood said:

its more of a terrain-hugging 'acropolis' temenos that jaggedly follows elevation contours, i find the shape to be much more visually interesting than a rectangular one. Unfortunately i couldnt find much on the sanctuary before the Romans, so i gleaned what I could from the archeological plan and injected a fair amount of 'artistic BS'

It's very good. I like the irregular retaining wall. Tho, I don't understand what's happening with the roof.

I suggest to you to smooth out the normal map. I've looked at the buildings in-game and the texture of the surfaces is way too grainy. Also, the parallax layer may be misaligned for the rooftiles. Not sure what's happening there.

 

To get better variation with the cypress trees, you can make multiple actors of cypress trees and just rename the size variation names to be slightly different in each actor. That way the same variation won't get chosen for every cypress tree. 

Edited October 17, 2017 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

4 hours ago, sphyrth said:

I'm loling at wow's saltiness. But obviously, he still loves the game and is still helping... which is the important part.

My faith has shifted to the art department.

[LordGood]

It's bird poop, don't worry about it.

I'm not sure what causes this rebellious parallax, I had a similar problem with the Iberian rooftiles. Might be solved by splitting the faces entirely, or else that would exacerbate the problem. Part of the reason why I quieted the parallax maps in the first place

[Stan`]

43 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

My faith has shifted to the Lordgood.

 

39 minutes ago, LordGood said:

It's bird poop, don't worry about it.

I'm not sure what causes this rebellious parallax, I had a similar problem with the Iberian rooftiles. Might be solved by splitting the faces entirely, or else that would exacerbate the problem. Part of the reason why I quieted the parallax maps in the first place

Parallax works weirdly. Sometimes smooth faces are broken sometimes they are not and sometimes edges of textures are making spikes...

I think not all Iberian buildings use all textures.

Btw I'm making a shooting range for Iberians.

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by stanislas69

[shieldwolf23]

48 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

My faith has shifted to the art department.

Amen to that brother.

[serveurix]

I'm not sure about the surrounding wall. Why would the architects hide the temple to the view of passersby ?

Edited October 17, 2017 by serveurix

[Sundiata]

@serveurix, it's called a Temenos, basically a sacred enclosure, from the Greek verb τέμνω (temnō), "to cut", in reference to the action of cutting off a piece of land by walling it. The term is commonly used in regard to Greek as well as Egyptian culture, where sanctuaries and temples where often walled. It serves a symbolic purpose (separating that which belongs to the god from the rest), as well as a secondary defensive purpose, protecting the massive riches inside the temple from potential raiders (lot's of gold).

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Temenos

[serveurix]

@Sundiata : I thought the spartans didn't like walls as a way of defense.

Anyway if the temenos is a thing, perhaps it should be present on all greek wonders then.

[Nescio]

To clarify, a temenos (feel free to translate it with sanctuary) is not the wall, it's the whole sacred area (any area which is cut off from the normal world and dedicated to supernatural being(s)). Whether or not it's surrounded by a wall, moat, fence, rope, or nothing at all is irrelevant.

A temenos does not necessarily have to contain a temple or altar, it could actually be almost anything: temple grouds, a single tree, a spot where lightning has struck, crossroads, a cave, spring, lake, grove, hilltop, or a complete island or mountain top. And each temenos could have its own rules (e.g. “wash your hands before entering” or “no threspassing; fine is three drachmae”).

Nor is it restricted to Greece and Egypt; yes, it's a classical Greek term, but the concept itself was and still is present throughout Eurasia (and probably elsewhere as well). Mount Athos is a fine example (the whole peninsula is sacred in Orthodox Christianity, women and female animals are not allowed in), as is this Japanese temenos:

 

[Nescio]

28 minutes ago, serveurix said:

I thought the spartans didn't like walls as a way of defense.

Sparta itself didn't have city walls in Classical times (because they considered it unlikely any enemy would be able to reach it; something similar applied to Principate Rome), nor did they allow other settlements in their territory to construct walls (they were constantly fearful of revolts). However, Spartan colonies (e.g. Taranto) did have massive city walls, and the Spartans themselves repeatedly erected stone walls outside their territory (e.g. at the Corinthian Isthmus or at Thermopylae) to strengthen their control of the battlefield.

[LordGood]

@wowgetoffyourcellphone Rooftiles are all grainy and still has this odd split. the 3D-ness is restored, though

[LordGood]

lol this discussion doesn't take away that the sanctuary had a temenos wall around both temples. It's purpose here is making a smaller archaic temple fill out the wonder footprint

[Sundiata]

@Nescio's explanation of the term temenos is indeed more accurate than mine  

@LordGood I'm no Sparta-expert, but realising how difficult it is to find good inspiration with such a scarcity of remains from the period, I thought I'd share these... They're a little too fanciful to my understanding of Sparta, but they are based on ancient descriptions, and are some of the very few tentative reconstructions of the city I've come across. Maybe it will help.

Spoiler

Essay on the topography of Sparta and it's environs. You can check out the specific location of all the major sites on this one  

 

The Dromos in Sparta (idea?)

 

"Imaginary reconstruction of the agora of Sparta. In the background, the Acropolis. In the foreground, the statue of Hermes Agoraeus with young Dionusus. On the right, the Persian stoa which housed the spoils of the Persian wars. In the background, the sanctuary of Moirai with Orpheus's grave."

 

"Depiction of Spartan youth practicing sports at the Gymnasium."

 

"Imaginary reconstruction of ancient Sparta"  It's only partially walled in this one  But seriously, the city was flanked by rivers and mountains on all sides... It really didn't need a wall. 

 

 

[Sundiata]

@LordGood, another thing:

Everybody knows the 4 settlements that came together to form ancient Sparta: Limnae, Pitana, Mesoa and Cynosura (actually, I had to google that)

But there's a 5th settlement, Amyklaion, or Amykles, site of the sanctuary of Amyklaion and the Throne of Apollo, 5km south of Sparta. You can actually see it on the southern edge of the map I shared in the previous post as Amyclae.

Spoiler

Temenos of the Sanctuary of Apollo and Hyakinthos at Amyklaion:

 

Remains of the Throne of Apollo:

 

Throne of Apollo 

 

 

 

Edited October 17, 2017 by Sundiata

[LordGood]

noooo that looks way more suitable for a spartan wonder. caryatids? gah

someone should have told them that doric columns dont have bases, and I'm left wondering if that superstructure is wooden

thats an interesting mix of things, could be fun to model just for the hell of it. Your researching skills again exceed my expectations lol

[Lion.Kanzen]

Great , that's interesting.

[Sundiata]

Thanks! 

13 minutes ago, LordGood said:

someone should have told them that doric columns dont have bases

I lolled... 

14 minutes ago, LordGood said:

and I'm left wondering if that superstructure is wooden

Seen as it was probably painted, you wouldn't be able to tell either way