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===[TASK]=== Crowd Sourced - Thracians (Faction)


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1 hour ago, Sundiata said:

And at least one Thracian mural shows it's functionality as more than just a religious symbol:

Ceremonial does not mean symbol (although the Labrys is both). Yes it is a functional tool  for religious ceremonies like in every other indo-european cultures. We have the same issue with the Celts, we found a tremendous amount of axe-heads in settlements, but they are generally associated to ceremonies when they are outside a domestic context. Try to apply this hypothesis and this reasoning to other civs, the Romans use axe-heads in ceremonies too and it doesn't mean they commonly use axes on the battlefield. Seeing the "barbarians" as functionally different from other civ is a bias.

1 hour ago, Sundiata said:

Here's an article about a Thracian axe recently returned to Bulgaria. A Bulgarian archaeologist describes it as a Labrys, and points out it was probable a battle axe, also saying "She points out that the Ancient Thracians used the double-bitted labrys ax for both battle and hunting as well as a cult (religious) artifact, and a symbol of power."

http://archaeologyinbulgaria.com/2014/03/14/mysterious-benefactor-from-maryland-returns-thracian-ax-labrys-smuggled-from-bulgaria-to-usa/

The axe looks a lot more functional than ceremonial axes (more ornate ceremonial axes usually don't look so functional):

More functional for the battlefield? Really? Did you have an idea of the weight of such an axe-head and the imbalance in wielding such weapon? Against something that fights back, this is suicide.

Look at the evidences for KNOWN and ATTESTED battle-axes among other cultures and contexts, generally the axe-heads are smaller or thinner. Even the viking axes evolved to lighter forms to resolve this issue, even the two-handed axes tend to be lighter over time because that's really impractical. They made thinner heads or with a narrower blade to lighten and increase the balance of the weapon. The design of this Labrys is horrible, the blade is far too thick for a proper use on the battlefield. In comparison, a broadaxe is far more lighter because the head is hammered to have a thin piece of steel. So a fat double-bit axe, that's not credible as a weapon.

Since Bulgarian archeologists are often involved in very unethical actions and claims, I will stick to a skeptical view unless there is a convincing evidence.

1 hour ago, Sundiata said:

Hmmm, I don't think silence means consent.

That's generally an undesired effect of community-based projects. But I rose the issue with intent because I know this is a way to get attention. I want simply to avoid a common situation when someone took a considerable time to produce something for a project and people start expressing their opinion on the concept only at the end when most of the work is done.

3 hours ago, Duileoga said:

No sabía que acá el silencio significaba consentimiento.:huh:

That's not a rule, this is simply a consequence of human behaviors.

1 hour ago, Sundiata said:

Stone and wood is good. But the stones should actually be well cut in the Hellenistic inspired structures. But most Thracian architecture wasn't Greek style cut stone.

That's, I think, the core of the issue, finding something that could fit for both Hellenistic inspired structures and the common structures of the inhabitants. That's why I am reluctant about a design based entirely on wood because I see it as an impossible equation to solve. Ideally, if we want to honor the Thracian culture, we should be able to include a Royal tomb or/and a rock-cut monument. Either as a wonder or as a functional building.

Personally I find interesting your references posted previously because it depicts houses built with bricks and stones as something in use for the commoners:

  

On 5/23/2018 at 11:50 PM, Sundiata said:

 

630813051_ScreenShot2018-05-23at13_24_30.thumb.png.e3e84e0d92d70334f6844ffda9a232ca.png

681955062_ScreenShot2018-05-23at13_24_00.thumb.png.30d926f13972f432a886b815d908ea6a.png

1728009395_ScreenShot2018-05-23at13_22_27.thumb.png.b6c06cdc36c8a02368ed2e338f3e7d06.png

984438289_ScreenShot2018-05-23at13_21_54.thumb.png.e7ba65737fa00ad61551e31f87f3f0cc.png

1480194344_ScreenShot2018-05-23at13_21_35.thumb.png.6435925078d6e592cc21c03b7fff2a2b.png

2024439989_ScreenShot2018-05-23at13_21_09.thumb.png.f8828338b786ffcaf384ccc0f0731977.png

 

 

1 hour ago, Sundiata said:

But the Dacian capital Sarmizegetusa also featured stone architecture and even a stone paved road. It's better to just use Dacian references for the Dacians and Thracian references for the Thracians, regardless of comparisons between the two. They shouldn't be artificially contrasted, nor equated. There's enough material in this thread to create a number of referenced structures, unique to Thracians, as well a number of referenced structures for Dacians. That should be the start. 

My point was not about that, this is simply an issue with the iron age in general: a house is a house. The basic structure of any settlement can look very similar along different cultures. My point was on the design and on the variability of the references in the same culture. You have a few stones in Dacian structures, as there is stone for the Gallic structures as well. But that's not the point! I am trying to talk about the guideline, the general direction of a design, the features one should easily see*. There is no way the Dacians would not have their design based on wood. Yes there would be a few stones, but most would be wooden. This is a problem of texture and coherence in the visual representation of a civ in a game. Contrary to the Dacians, the Thracians had very contrasted urban centers.

Creating nice looking design for the structures is not something easy and if there are several civs based on wood and wattle-and-daub, it could become challenging at the end.

*illustration

On 8/7/2019 at 5:19 PM, Nescio said:

Thank you for the information posted, it looks very promising! Yes, having a complete and unique architecture set is imperative for any civilization—the Illyrians should get their own set. The Thracians already have a few structures (barracks, centre, corral, houses, temple, tower); they were committed by @Stan` a year ago:

1115167620_Screenshotfrom2019-08-0717-10-38.thumb.png.5e2ea1a0c51067a944326dd6f1da707c.png

It's a start; hopefully more structure actors will be created in the same style.

 

1 hour ago, Sundiata said:

Thrace was relatively densely populated, and sites like Seuthopolis and Helis (isn't that one Getic?), definitely represent a fractional amount of the population. So indeed, good references for elite structures, but not for the rest. 

Anyway most of the game is inevitably depicting the elite oftener than the commoners. This is the case for all the civ currently.

Edited by Genava55
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On 9/29/2020 at 8:09 AM, Duileoga said:

Buenas @Sundiata

Estoy de acuerdo , además creo que si se hacen primero los Tracios (aún con alguna influencia helenística) luego se podrían añadir más elementos de estilo griego (edificios y unidades ) y a esos elementos nuevos se les incorporaría a los Odrisios y entonces tendríamos dos facciones nuevas y originales.

Disculpe las molestias*

Imo instead of two Thrace factions, it would better to make Odrysians (More hellenized) and Dacians (More ''barbarian'' influenced by Celts and Scythians).

For Odrysian roster maybe something like this:

Infantry spearman

Infantry swordsman

Special Romphaia infantryman

Infantry javelinist

Infantry archer

Cavalry javelinist

Cavalry spearman

Champion Noble Hoplite

Champion javelin cavalry (when weapon switching is added could also use sword)

Mercenary Getae horse archer

Mercenary heavy peltast from a hellenized tribe (Paeonian, Agrianian)

Bastarnae mercenary (cavalry swordsman?)

Edited by Ultimate Aurelian
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On 9/30/2020 at 2:42 PM, Ultimate Aurelian said:

Imo instead of two Thrace factions, it would better to make Odrysians (More hellenized) and Dacians (More ''barbarian'' influenced by Celts and Scythians).

Most players outside this forum won't know what "Odrysians" are, so I think Thracians works best, just based on the Odrysian kingdom and also some traditional Thracian units as your roster indicates. 

Thracians and especially Dacians should for sure be added. I will reiterate my opinion that Empires Ascendant should just go ahead and add the later "Part 2" civs to the game. "Part 2" being so far away, it would essentially be its own game and then you might as well go with a different time period, like Medieval or Bronze Age.

 

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On 04/10/2020 at 02:10, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Most players outside this forum won't know what "Odrysians" are, so I think Thracians works best, just based on the Odrysian kingdom and also some traditional Thracian units as your roster indicates. 

Thracians and especially Dacians should for sure be added. I will reiterate my opinion that Empires Ascendant should just go ahead and add the later "Part 2" civs to the game. "Part 2" being so far away, it would essentially be its own game and then you might as well go with a different time period, like Medieval or Bronze Age.

 

Buenas @wowgetoffyourcellphone , estoy de acuerdo con usted respecto a los Tracios .

Pero ¿Cuántas actualizaciones habrá de 0.A.D? quiero decir que ya están casi todas las letras del alfabeto , ¿Cuándo ya no queden más significará que el juego ya está terminado?(intentaré apoyar en el trabajo para incluir algunas y entre ellas a Tracios o Dacios o ambas)

Además de que ¿Con cada nueva versión (0ad 25 y 0ad 26) habrán nuevas facciones o la intención prioritaria pretende mejorar los gráficos , música , mapas y jugabilidad (como lo fue poner los colores que diferencian amigos de enemigos)?

 

 

Disculpe me las molestias ocasionadas*

 

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Buenas 

 

Ya terminé con los bocetos de "Lusitanos" que ya subí a su Tópico y ya estoy terminando los bocetos para Arsácidas/Arsacids ;

 

Me gustaría ponerme ahora con los "Tracios/thracians" (sin influencia griega por ahora) , pero tengo muchos problemas para diferenciarlos de los "Dacios/Dacians"

 

¿ Alguien me podría enviar información por privado (mensajes) de los tracios (edificios) y sus fuentes para hacer los bocetos?(con esa ayuda tendré varios los bocetos solo en unos días)

 

 

DISCULPEN LAS MOLESTIAS*

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@Duileoga No creo que tengas que preocuparte demasiado por esto. Las fuentes arqueológicas son débiles en las viviendas rurales de Tracia. Hay vestigios que sugieren casas de paja, ladrillo o piedra. Hay casas más bárbaras como palacios a la moda griega. Creo que la forma más sencilla es partir de casas rectangulares con paredes de piedra y techo de madera. Un poco así o así. Inspirado por eso.

También puede inspirarse en el edificio producido por Lion.Kanzen como centro cívico. Para analizar este edificio, diría que las escaleras son inútiles y que las columnas no deberían estar a tal altura. Pero la idea de un recinto es coherente con lo que sabemos de los príncipes tracios. Vivían en pequeñas fortificaciones, amaban el estilo de vida griego, les encantaba festejar y recibir invitados para mostrar su riqueza.

On 26/09/2016 at 3:08 AM, Lion.Kanzen said:

Isn't a CC is special building like embassy , but you trace an alliance with foreign powers , like Macedonians, Persian and Romans.

Thracian_Governement_Center_Render_1.png

 

Conocemos un ejemplo concreto de un pequeño edificio aristocrático de arquitectura griega, el Palacio de Seuthopolis. Uno podría imaginar reemplazar las escaleras y el templo en el modelo de Lion.Kanzen por una casa de varios pisos con columnas en la fachada frontal, inspirándose en el Palacio de Seuthopolis.

On 05/08/2019 at 2:38 PM, Genava55 said:

image.png.57cf30e26ec6467144f2d417603db052.png

Después de todo, encontramos esta idea en villas romanas que copiaban la moda griega, a veces con varios pisos.

Para hacer más "tracia", podría ser posible agregar decoraciones similares a las de la tumba tracia de Svechtari.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thracian_Tomb_of_Sveshtari

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Buenas ;

 

-Creo que la facción tracia podría ser la excepción a la regla de que los edificios no cambian en cada fase , ya que hay muchas referencias diferentes para los tracios y al mismo tiempo el intento de introducir a los Odrisios que eran tracios pero con una arquitectura diferente me hace pensar que para ellos si podría ser posible esta cualidad.

También podría ser una Bonificación de facción , que en cada fase los edificios fueran un poco más duros ya que los elementos de construcción son más resistentes pero también un poco más caros.

 

 

Edificios para la "Fase 1" de 3 fases;

 

(Las estructuras también podrían cambiar de formas al cambiar de fase no solo lo harían las texturas)

 

-Almacén ;

135739983_almacntraciofase1.png.a6524744087ded0ce70ba274cc84dfb7.png

-Casas;

790949951_casastraciasfase1.png.2555a4f71679832034a521e206800d73.png

-Centro urbano;

496297535_centrourbanotraciofase1.png.ba0801c0cebb0aafbd9cc001e18a51de.png

-Corral;

2076585579_corraltraciofase1.png.5b54ea69b9afcad5cc7bd56eec11df75.png

-Cuartel;

476362411_cuarteltraciofase1.png.14e6fb7d3578cb78b03cca0672814286.png

-Granja;

1569081828_granjatraciafase1.png.9830080a9595b89b7bd74165b786ceed.png

-Murallas;

1387490881_murallatraciafase1.png.8659866deff04541d6ec828e49a1d3a2.png

-Puerto;

1650482892_puertotraciofase1.png.32e146d2153d131f580b82b4db01a33c.png

Torre defensiva pequeña;

665633122_torredefensivatraciapequeafase1.png.ec74b332e9df555300fb8756fa30ea56.png

 

-Aldea;

739707713_aldeatraciafase1.png.84223df88681f884b6cc76de510cf762.png

 

(No añadí decoraciones porque eso lleva más tiempo y quería presentar mi idea lo antes posible y si es descartada pues no perdería el tiempo con algo que no va a hacerse realidad y si es aceptada los incluiré)

 

Referencias;

 

862132538_aldeatracia2.png.92905d00d5ede25775af95bcc8983315.png1590306448_aldeatracia.png.036b4d44ee0344b23b001f1e590a4b70.png1108025288_casamodelofase1.png.5f3bcd23160de5a3cccf7e13c79dba68.png1847759477_casasconmurallastracias.png.384a1b00f6a62e67adcce708b4424a16.png260535275_casastracias.png.abac3576301f8a7ab9405808bcf5761e.png1105531718_edificiostracios.png.3919aaff279d3b81c6705bc79d44c535.png

 

 

 

 

-(esta última es la referencia para los colores)

 

1356308558_mundorural.png.4a8cdf6c6148df2444f33d4a815547bc.png

 

 

 

 

Disculpen las molestias*

 

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On 05/08/2019 at 2:38 PM, Genava55 said:

Overview of the Thracians (I will edit this post through time to update the thing when I have the time):

The Thracians are a mysterious group of different tribes, often mentioned in ancient sources and commonly known for their mercenaries but it is difficult to get a proper picture of what was the Thracian culture and how they lived. First, what are the Thracians? This is in fact an important issue because there are contradictory definitions depending on the point of view adopted. The most common definition is administrative, the limits of Thrace is based on the Roman divisions of their territories and the Thracians are simply the tribes living in this region (see the map below). This is good enough because most of the historical tribes are indeed in this region. But if we look from the point of view of the languages, there are connections between the Thracians and the Dacians and between the Thracians and the Illyrians. It seems that the case was ambiguous enough for Herodotos to conclude they are one of the most numerous population and most of the barbarian tribes north of Greece were belonging to the Thracians. Even up to the Crimea in other accounts, notably including the Getai/Getae. However, there is indeed a sharper linguistic group in the South of Thrace related to the historical Thracians and to their material culture. This group correspond to the tribes in front of the Aegean Sea, like the Bessi and the Odrysai. To sum it up, the concept of “Thracians” was very wide in the oldest accounts and became narrower through time to become restricted only to the Southern Thrace. This follows the historical interactions of the Thracians with the Hellenistic world.

image.png.90a14f8890928164e026a749c57b1833.png

Prehistory

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Archaeologically, the territories of the modern Bulgaria and Romania were on the path of several migrating peoples from the Pontic Steppes. The Yamnaya culture, the Catacomb culture and the Middle Dnieper culture are ancient echoes similar to the migrations of the Scythians and Sarmatians during the historical period. This is the Indo-European origin for the Thracians and Dacians. But the first typical cultures that started the genesis of the Thracian civilization were the Ottomani culture and Wietenberg culture north of the Danube, far from the traditional homeland of the historical period. These two Bronze Age cultures developed the basis for the Thracian art that will flourish later; even some parallels are seen with the arm rings and bracelets of the Dacians and Thracians.

 

Here some artifacts from the Ottomani culture and Wietenberg culture:

image.png.95a941b79f3f1f8d0ec41032b01d55ef.png

image.png.2004552de5d4dca8e7d67645622aa608.pngimage.png.1e7e01f30ea2e6618a69568137972ae4.png

The genesis will continue during the Bronze Age and the Early Iron Age with the continuing influence from the North by the Noua culture, the Babadag culture and the Zimnicea-Plovdiv culture. These cultures will be the first to cross clearly the Danube and to establish themselves in the Southern regions of Thrace, forming the Pshenichevo culture. Finally the Urnfield culture will extend itself into the actual Romania and Bulgaria and will homogenize more efficiently the culture associated to the Thracians and Dacians (and probably the Illyrians as well). It is during the transition between the Bronze Age and the Iron Age that the split up associated to the historical Thracians from their neighbors occurred. A culture building megaliths was active during the Last phase of the Bronze Age in South-Eastern Thrace and Anatolia and this culture started to mix with the newcomers from the North inside the Thracian plains. This megalithic culture is associated to the migration of the Phrygians and of the Bithynians from Anatolia to the Thrace as explained by Herodotos and Strabo. While in the North, the influence from the Cimmerians and the Chernoles culture increased the contacts between the Geto-Dacians group and the nomadic peoples. This is how the two main groups of the early Thracians started to divide themselves bit by bit; the historical Thracians were in contacts with the Mediterranean and Anatolian spheres of influences while the Geto-Dacians were in contacts with the Nomads. However, the divide was not that sharp because of the Black Sea and of the Greek colonies further in the North. In fact, this is not a black and white contrast between the Geto-Dacians and the Thracians; it is easier to see these differences as the results of two gradients of influence. For example, the Animalistic art is widespread among the Thracians and the Geto-Dacians and this art comes from these contacts with the Cimmerians.

Here some artifact associated with the Northern limits of the Thracians during the 7th century BC, from Bessarabia (Moldova) to Ferigile (Râmnicu Vâlcea, Romania); see the proximities with nomadic culture:

 

image.png.99fcfd3752e56ee452262da80b84bb59.pngimage.png.71fc26b3e28fb904087517dfc3491de7.pngimage.png.56e5f651244aae398a4bf32b6bd08a5f.pngimage.png.46dc305224692ebf2624109dbbbf85df.png

 

 

 

The beginning between the Greek, the Scythians and the Persians

 

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Recent excavations have shown that several centuries before the great Greek colonization Euboians arrived in the north of the Aegean and settled permanently, evidently in Mende on the Pallene, the westernmost of the three peninsular extensions of the great Chalcidic Peninsula, and in Torone on the Sithonia, the central of those same three extensions. In the 8th century, Euboians again headed for the Chalcidic Peninsula and founded colonies, the Eretrians on the Pallene and the Chalcidians on the Sithonia and in its hinterland. About the middle of the 7th century, Andrians turned up on the east coast of the peninsula and founded four colonies between the isthmus of the Akte and the mouth of the Strymon River: Sane, Akanthos, Stagira, and Argilos. Finally, about the year 600, the Korinthians founded Poteidaia on the isthmus of the Pallene. About or after 700, Aiolians who came from Lesbos occupied Samothrake and used it as a starting point for the founding of several settlements on the opposite shore. The next destination of Greek colonists was the Thracian Chersonese (with Hellespont); most scholars date the start of the colonization to the seventh century. The first to come seem to have been the Aiolians; they occupied Madytos and Sestos, which lay on the strait, and Alopekonnesos on the northwest coast of the peninsula; from here they reached Ainos in the second half of the century. On the west coast the Milesians founded, partly together with the Klazomenians, Limnai and Kardia. Some decades later the Athenian Miltiades took colonists to the Chersonese, installed them in already existing cities or in new foundations, protected the inhabitants of the peninsula by building a wall across its isthmus, and established a private rule which became hereditary within the family and was only abolished by the Persians after the suppression of the Ionian Revolt. On the whole, there are three groups of colonies close to the Hellespont: on the south coast Milesian foundations (Kyzikos, Prokonnesos, Kios, and perhaps others); in the northeastern and northern part of the Propontis, Megarian foundations (Astakos, Chalkedon, Byzantion, Selymbria); and, the latest, on the north coast the Samian foundations Perinthos and Bisanthe, where the colonists seem to have met the strongest opposition from the native population.

image.png.574a7a68e3bacc4c457e78fc117e6c9d.png

 

Unlike the northern Aegean, there are very few written sources about the Black Sea and most conclusions are based on archaeology. An important difference with the Aegean is that, at present, there is no unequivocal evidence of a “precolonial” phase of maritime contacts that preceded the colonial foundations. Curiously, evidence from Mesambria alone, among the latest foundations, could begin such a discussion. Pseudo-Skymnos and Herodotos probably refer to two successive groups of settlers, respectively in the late sixth century and again in the early fifth. Strabo mentions an earlier name, however, Menebria, from Menas and bria, and the same tradition is attested by a later epitaph. Finds of Early Iron Age pottery seemingly confirmed the native origin of Mesambria and created the image of Mesambria as a major Thracian port, transformed by the colonists into a Greek polis. The actual colonization started from Dobrudzha, with the foundation of Istros and Orgame, some 400 km to the north of the Bosporus. Apollonia, the first safe harbor after the straits, appeared only a few decades later; Milesian colonists skipped several suitable sites to be settled later, like Apollonia. In the possible context of Miletos losing land to Lydia, these settlers were attracted apparently by the steppe flatlands and large rivers, which offered agricultural potential and other sources of food, like fish. One additional factor may have contributed to this choice: the near total absence of a native population. The early seventh century was a time of change and the local Babadag Culture collapsed, possibly as a result of general upheaval in the Pontic steppes. It would have been easier to found a colony in an almost empty landscape, although Orgame is situated on a naturally fortified promontory. It may even be the case that Orgame was the first Greek settlement, with the leading role later transferred to Istros, as at Borysthenes/Berezan and Olbia to the north.

By contrast Odessos, to the south of the steppe region, was founded in an inhabited landscape, as indicated by Thracian cemeteries that appeared in the late seventh century; in the Hellenistic period Krobyzai “lived in a circle” around the city. Founded later than Istros (ca. 610), Apollonia was situated on the coastal island of St. Kirik and a peninsula that provided safe harbor and natural protection. There is no evidence that the colonists needed it, although they did find an inhabited hinterland. Coastal Strandzha was part of the Early Iron Age “megalithic” culture, as attested by dolmens. On the heights of Meden Rid (“Copper Ridge”), which encloses the coastal plain around Apollonia, Thracian “hill-forts” were identified and investigations at Malkoto Kale have revealed continuity from the ninth century to after the arrival of the Greeks. These natives could be the Skyrmiadai mentioned by Herodotos. Archaeology provides evidence that the colonists quickly established relations with the Thracians. Throughout the city, traces of bronze metallurgy have been discovered, and on St. Kirik they are securely dated to the colony’s earliest times; the metal came from Meden Rid, where sixth-century materials were found associated with ancient mines. It is difficult to imagine that mining in the foothills of Strandzha would be possible without the consent of the natives, and Thracian pottery in the early layers of the city adds to the picture. This evidence for precocious metallurgy may reveal something about the reasons for the colonization. The interactions were not limited to Apollonia’s immediate surroundings, for the Thracian interior was most accessible by navigable lagoons at the head of the Bay of Burgas, where Greek imports appeared very early in the sixth century, before penetrating further inland.

image.png.85b42de08182a8d1dbb0145030afe39c.png

 

Only in very few cases can we guess how the different Thracian tribes reacted to the occupation of their coasts by the Greek colonists; and, as far as our written sources are concerned, we do not learn anything about their political history in the age of the great colonization. This, however, changed abruptly when, at the end of the sixth century, the Persians appeared on European soil and for more than three decades determined the history of this area, and when some decades later the Greek historian Herodotus wrote his history of the Persian Wars, in which he also mentioned events in Thrace, although not as fully as we would wish. According to him, the Great King Darius was the first to cross to Thrace with his troops. A recent critical examination of this account, however, leads to the supposition that already before Darius the general Megabazos had made an advance across the Straits and had conquered the territory along the Hellespont and the Propontis. This could only have been a prelude to further conquests on European soil, and, in order to safeguard these against possible raids of the Skythians who lived north of the Danube, in about 513 Darius himself arrived with a great army, crossed the Bosporos, conquered further tribes in eastern Thrace, marched to the mouth of the Danube and crossed the river. After having operated – allegedly unsuccessfully – for some time in the area of the Skythians he led his army back down the Hebros River, built a fort called Doriskos west of its mouth and returned via Sestos to Asia Minor. About 510 he marched west along the Thracian coast of the Aegean and conquered all tribes and cities until he reached the area of the lower Strymon. Some of the Paionian tribes in this region were deported to Asia Minor, and a diplomatic mission achieved the voluntary submission of the Macedonian king Amyntas. The Getae have been pushed in the North for at least several decades, probably in the region of the latter called Dacia. While Amyntas was obviously allowed to continue ruling, albeit as a vassal of the Great King, we do not know anything about the organization of the parts of Thrace that the Persians had conquered up to that time. These were restricted to the coastal areas and did not comprise, as some scholars assume, the big central plain in modern Bulgaria. If the conquest of the Straits and the south coast of Thrace as well as the extension of Persian rule to Macedonia was intended as the preparation for a campaign against Greece, nothing in fact happened in this respect, at least during the next ten years. Quite the opposite: the Persian rule in this region was so weak that in the years of the Ionian Revolt (499–494) it practically collapsed. Finally, in 492, Darius dispatched his son-in-law Mardonios with an army and a fleet and ordered him to restore Persian rule on the other side of the Straits as well. Although the Persian navy was shipwrecked while rounding the Athos peninsula and the locals successfully attacked the land army, killed many soldiers, and even injured the general, the campaign ended with a Persian success. In connection with the events of the year 480 Herodotos speaks of the numerous commanders in Thrace and at the Hellespont; these might have been appointed subsequent to Mardonios’ campaign. On the other hand we never hear of a satrap who resided in Thrace, and therefore most scholars are convinced that the Persians had not set up a separate satrapy but that the country consisted of different military districts which were governed by the previously mentioned commanders; these were possibly subordinate to the satrap who resided in Sardeis. Afterward, owing to Mardonios’ successes, Thrace remained firmly under Persian control until the year 480, as can be observed during the preparations for Xerxes’ invasion of Greece. In order to avoid another shipwreck a canal was built across the isthmus of the Athos peninsula; its traces are still visible on the ground. Furthermore, in the region where Amphipolis would later be founded, the Strymon was bridged and supply depots for the army were laid out in Thrace and Macedonia along the route of the planned advance. Such circumstances, however, changed during the course of Xerxes’ invasion. After being defeated at the battle of Salamis, the King hurriedly marched to the Hellespont with select troops; the survivors of the Persian army marched in great hurry through Thessaly and Macedonia and eventually reached Byzantion, after many of them had either been killed by the Thracians or had been worn out by famine and exhaustion. Soon after Xerxes’ invasion was repulsed, the Athenians founded and headed the so-called Delian League, which, as we shall soon see, after only a few years degenerated into an Athenian Empire. The aim of the first operations of the League was to expel the Persians from Thrace. The fortress of Doriskos, however, could repulse all Athenian attacks; it surrendered eventually to the Thracians and never became a member of the League, which, in Aegean Thrace, finally comprised the coastal cities from the Chalcidic Peninsula to the mouth of the Hebros River. The retreat of the Persians from Thrace opened the way for the Odrysians whose homelands were to be looked for in the fertile valleys of the Hebros (mod. Maritsa), Tonzos (Tundja), and Harpessos (Arda) Rivers. According to Thucydides (2.29.2) their king Teres “was the first to found a great kingdom of the Odrysians, which extended over the larger part of Thrace.” Details about the formation and the extension of this realm are barely known, nor can these events be dated exactly. Some of the territorial gains may even have been made by Teres’ son Sitalkes. We only know that Teres was on friendly terms with the Skythians, that he had given his daughter in marriage to a Skythian ruler, that he had suffered a defeat in the hinterland of the Propontis when he was attacked by the Thynians, and that allegedly he reached the age of 92. At the beginning of the Peloponnesian War his son Sitalkes ruled over the Odrysians.

 

 

The Odrysian kingdom

 

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“Beginning with the Odrysians, he [Sitalkes] first called out the Thracian tribes subject to him between Mounts Haemus and Rhodope and the Euxine and Hellespont; next the Getae beyond Haemus, and the other tribes settled south of the Danube in the neighborhood of the Euxine, who, like the Getae, border on the Scythians and are armed in the same manner, being all mounted archers. Besides these he summoned many of the independent Thracian hill tribes, swordsmen called Dii, mostly inhabiting Mount Rhodope, some of whom came as mercenaries, others as volunteers; also the Agrianes and the Leaeans; there the empire of Sitalkes ends and the territory of the independent Paeonians begins. Bordering on the Triballi, also independent, were the Treres and the Tilataeans, who dwell to the north of Mount Scombrus and extend toward the setting sun as far as the river Oskius.” – Thucydides

By far the most information about Sitalkes concerns the first years of the Peloponnesian War and comes from Thucydides who maintained close relations with Thrace, where he not only had the right of working gold mines but also exerted great influence on leading individuals. Additionally Herodotos knew of a meeting between Sitalkes and the Skythian ruler who was the son of the daughter of Teres and who had ousted his brother, the actual ruler; Herodotos’ account is vague about the chronology of this event, unfortunately. The deposed ruler had gone to Sitalkes, whereas a brother of Sitalkes (might he have been Sparadokos?) had found shelter with the Skythians. Instead of bringing back their protégés by force of arms the two rulers mutually handed them over. So both Sitalkes’ rule and the northern frontier of his kingdom were protected. As regards the Athenians and their allies, he protected himself with the help of an alliance that had been negotiated in the summer of 431 by Nymphodoros of Abdera, whose sister Sitalkes had married; on this occasion Sitalkes’ son Sadokos became an Athenian citizen, probably the first Thracian to be honored in this way. In the following summer of 430, Sitalkes and his son Sadokos demonstrated their loyalty to the Athenians by arresting and delivering up a group of Peloponnesian envoys who were on their way to the Persian King and had tried to bring the Odrysians over to the Spartan side. Sitalkes had promised the Athenians that he would assist them against the Macedonian king Perdikkas and the insurgents on the Chalcidic Peninsula. In the winter of 429/8 he set off against both of them. Although this campaign was only marginally relevant to the history of the Peloponnesian War and achieved no lasting success, Thucydides not only supplied a detailed report but also inserted a substantial digression on Sitalkes’ kingdom, its size, the king’s sources of revenue, and the army. His enumeration and description of the tribes that supplied troops for Sitalkes’ campaign against Macedonia are the most detailed account we have of the extent of the Thracian realm in the fifth century. Thucydides begins with the Odrysian homelands, without specifying their whereabouts, although they must have been located around the middle course of the Hebros River in southeastern Bulgaria; this gave the Odrysians not only an economic and strategic advantage but also access to the Thracian interior and to the coasts to the east and south. He then writes of the Thracians living between Haimos (now the Balkan Mountains, Stara Planina), Rhodope, and the sea (both the Pontos Euxeinos and the Propontis), and of the Getai and other tribes between the Istros (Danube) and Haimos. In addition to these different Thracians living chiefly in the plains of what are now Bulgaria and Greek and Turkish Thrace, Sitalkes also summoned the independent Thracians who lived in the mountains, most of them inhabitants of Rhodope in what is now southwestern Bulgaria. From here Thucydides moves to present-day western Bulgaria, mentioning the Agrianians and other Paionian tribes who were under Sitalkes’ sway, the Strymon River having been the western boundary of his empire. The Paionians west of the river were independent but seem to have been the target of an earlier expedition of Sitalkes; on that occasion he had even constructed a road, cutting a path through the forest. To the northwest the boundary was formed by the tribes who lived north of Mount Skombros (now Vitosha south of Sofia), east of the Oskios River (mod. Iskar), and south of the independent Triballoi. After this digression Thucydides describes the march of Sitalkes’ army through the interior of Thrace to the north of Macedonia and the invasion along the Axios. During this march many of the independent Thracians joined him without being summoned, so that the whole number of troops was said to have risen to no fewer than 150,000, of whom about a third were cavalry. Despite their numerical superiority the Thracians did not advance any further into Macedonia than Pella and Kyrrhos. Instead they ravaged the eastern parts of Macedonia and the adjacent areas of the Bottiaeans and the Chalcidians, frightening both the Greeks living to the south of Macedonia and the independent Thracians east of the lower Strymon. However, the Thracian army did not have sufficient food supplies and was also suffering from the cold; so Sitalkes returned home after just 30 days, taking the advice of his nephew Seuthes, who had himself been bribed by Perdikkas. In 424 Sitalkes undertook an expedition against the Triballoi but was defeated in battle and killed; after his death his nephew Seuthes became king of the Odrysians and of the rest of Sitalkes’ Thracian realm. This realm had been created partly by voluntary subordination under the Odrysian ruler whose power grew continually, partly by fighting. Some tribes were allowed to keep their leaders, in other parts so-called paradynasts were appointed as governors; some of these are known only from their coins which, however, must not be interpreted as an indication of independence movements or even rebellions. A capital of the Odrysian realm is never mentioned; the respective rulers seem to have stayed in different more or less fortified settlements or other central places. Thucydides speaks with admiration about the size of the Odrysian realm which extended from Abdera to the Danube or from Byzantion to the Strymon; this made it larger than all Greek states south of Macedonia and Epeiros. Furthermore he emphasizes the income of the Odrysian king, which under Sitalkes’ successor Seuthes had amounted in gold and silver to about 400 talents; to this sum must be added gifts in gold and silver and other precious materials whose worth reached the same sum. Such gifts were given not only to the ruler but also to the subordinate princes and nobles of the Odrysians.

Under Seuthes I, the son of Sparadokos, the Odrysian realm was able to maintain its position, and the income of the ruler could even be increased, but our sources seem to indicate that political and military activities decreased. In the years 424/3 and 422, Seuthes obviously did not take part in the clashes between Athenians and the Spartan Brasidas over the possession of Amphipolis, whereas Thracian tribes in the area of the lower Strymon supported one or the other of the parties; the Edonians of Myrkinos sided with the Spartans, while the Odomantian king, Polles, aided the Athenian general Kleon. During the rule of Sitalkes these tribes had been independent and obviously they seem to have maintained their independence. Likewise in the course of later Athenian actions along the Thracian coast, Seuthes is not mentioned. In these years the Athenians not only failed to recover Amphipolis, but also, in the second half of the Peloponnesian War, temporarily lost to the Spartans other important cities such as Byzantion, Selymbria, Perinthos, and Abdera. We do not know whether Seuthes made use of this situation and whether he, as many scholars assume, began at this time to expand his rule toward the Chersonese. The sources are silent about his later years, including the time of his death. His successor Medokos is mentioned for the first time in 405, when the Athenian Alkibiades told the Athenian generals, who were encamped at Aigospotamoi on the Chersonese, that the Thracian kings Medokos and Seuthes II were his friends and had promised him considerable troops for the fight against the Spartans. Some years earlier in the course of his military operations around the Hellespont and the Propontis, Alkibiades had seized some strongholds near Bisanthe and on the Thracian Chersonese. When he had to flee again from Athens, he withdrew there. Our sources tell us that he enlisted mercenaries,waged war on the Thracians who had no king at the time, captured much booty and gave the Greeks in this region safety with respect to the barbarians; that means that in the hinterland of the Propontis there were districts which were not part of any kingdom. When a little later Alkibiades fled to Asia Minor and the threats from the Thracians did not cease, the Byzantines turned to the Spartans and asked for help. The Spartans sent Klearchos, who set up a tyranny until he was expelled; however, he stayed in the country and went on fighting the Thracians until in 401 he joined the campaign of the younger Kyros against his brother Artaxerxes. According to Xenophon, Seuthes II already controlled a number of fortresses along the coast and in the hinterland, from which he undertook raids into the territory of the rebels, but had not yet succeeded in subjugating them. With the help of the Greek mercenaries, he campaigned not only in the former territory of his father but also in the principality of Teres; in doing so he had no moral scruples and butchered unmercifully those whom he actually wanted to become his subjects. After a number of successes which led him up to Salmydessos on the Black Sea coast, Xenophon with his mercenaries left Seuthes and entered the service of the Spartans, who were the decisive power in the area of the Straits after the end of the Peloponnesian War and who, since the year 400, had waged war on the Persian satrap Tissaphernes; Seuthes was glad to be rid of the Greeks, whom he had scarcely paid. With Xenophon’s help Seuthes II had been able to enlarge his territory, but obviously he still had to seek foreign support. Therefore he sent about 200 Odrysian cavalrymen and 300 peltasts to the Spartan general Derkylidas who since the summer of 399 had been in command in Asia Minor and who spent the winter in Bithynia. In the meantime, the inhabitants of the Thracian Chersonese had asked the Spartans for help against the raids of the Thracians and Derkylidas was instructed to look after them. He crossed to Europe, marched through Seuthes II’ territory to the Chersonese, and built a wall across the isthmus of the peninsula; this must have been at least the third such wall. The Thracians who had plagued the Chersonitans were not alone in revolting against the hegemony of the Spartans. When, after the outbreak of the Corinthian War, in 394 the Spartan king Agesilaos and his troops left Asia Minor by land, they had to fight against an army of an otherwise unknown tribe. Whereas we know relatively much about Seuthes II, his sovereign Medokos, who in our literary sources is sometimes called Amadokos and who presumably resided in the upper reaches of the Hebros River, is for the next years attested only by his coins. Seuthes II eventually rose against Medokos. We do not know any details of this insurrection and have only Aristoteles’ remark that Seuthes II had despised his overlord. The Athenian general Thrasyboulos, who, at that time, was operating on the Hellespont (389), reconciled them to one another and made them allies of the Athenians; in this context Xenophon calls Medokos/Amadokos “king of the Odrysians” and his opponent “ruler of the coast region”; this seems to indicate some form of subordination. In 383 Kotys became king.15 He was the right man to strengthen the run-down Odrysian realm, vigorous, and an artful diplomat who could take advantage of the respective political conditions. We know almost nothing about the first 18 years of his rule; with the help of Iphikrates, who was one of the best generals of his age, he seems to have managed to unite his territory with the realm of the dead Hebryzelmis; his coins were also minted at Kypsela. These efforts not only to restore the Odrysian kingdom to its former extent but also to enlarge it – especially toward the Chersonese – eventually gave rise to tensions and ultimately to war with the Athenians. In 375 allegedly 30,000 Triballians attacked the city of Abdera, which was rescued only by the intervention of the Athenian general Chabrias, who thereafter garrisoned the city. In 363 Kotys attacked the Chersonese. Several Athenian generals in succession fought unsuccessfully against him and his mercenary commander Charidemos. The generals were subsequently recalled to Athens, with some of them being accused and condemned. At the same time Kotys had problems with his former treasurer Miltokythes, who had risen against him and asked the Athenians for help, although in vain. Meanwhile, the war continued, but in 360/59, Kotys was assassinated by two brothers who came from Ainos. The Athenians honored them with citizenship and golden crowns but such awards do not prove that the Athenians had instigated the assassination. If, however, the Athenians had hoped that the removal of Kotys would improve their chances in the north of the Aegean and around the Straits, the Macedonian king Philip II was to disappoint them very soon and very bitterly. After the death of Kotys I in 360 BCE the Odrysian Kingdom entered a troubled age which ended in its complete annihilation. The period coincides with the reign of Philip II in Macedonia.

 

 

The remnants invaded

 

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After the death of Kotys, the Odrysian kingdom was divided in three parts. Kersebleptes the son of Kotys took the easternmost realm, presumably to the east of the rivers Tonzos and Hebros; Amadocus, probably a son of Medocus the Odrysian king in Xenophon’s Anabasis, took the mountainous hinterland of Maroneia; while one Berisades established himself in the area around the lower Nestos. It remains unknown who of the three new kings took the rich inland plain of the Upper Hebros. Meanwhile, Athens was occupying the cities of the Chersonesos with cleruchs and Kersebleptes attacked Amadocus, Perinthus and Byzantium. Philip seized the occasion to make them his allies, and invaded the kingdom of Kersebleptes in the autumn of 352 BCE. Although Philip fell ill during the campaign, in the end Kersebleptes was defeated, and had to send a son to Pella as a hostage. There were also some collateral results: Demosthenes mentions that in Thrace Philip “expelled some kings and replaced them with others”, while Justin offers an anecdote about two brothers, Thracian kings, who summoned Philip as an arbitrator, but he came with his whole army and dispossessed them both. It was only a few years later that Philip felt confident to undertake a full-scale invasion of the kingdoms of Teres and Kersebleptes, who seem to have buried their mutual strife in face of the common danger. This was a war on a scale not comparable with the previous short incursions, and seems to have lasted through three summer seasons, 342–340 BCE, without interruptions for the intervening winters. In another episode Philip, who was suffering from inadequate funds, made an incursion for plunder in the lands of the Getae to the north of the Haemus, but was repulsed from a city (Odessos?) by a group of Getic priests who came out dressed in white and playing on guitars. It is often presumed that it must have been during these northern raids that Philip made an alliance with a Getic king, Kotelas, and married his daughter Meda. It would also have been during the Thracian war that Philip first entered in contact with the Scythian king Atheas who had crossed the Danube into Dobrudja; on his request Philip sent him some military aid.

In the spring and early summer of 335 BCE, the year after his accession, Alexander the Great undertook an expedition against the Triballi in Thrace with his whole army. In a demonstration of force Alexander crossed the Danube, defeated a swarm of Getae who had gathered on the northern bank of the river, and took one of their fortified places. He then accepted ambassadors from King Syrmos and the other independent Danubian tribes and concluded a pact with all, including some Celts from the Adriatic who had also sent a delegation. After this the Macedonian army retreated hastily to the south through the lands of the Agriani and Paeonians, that is, through the areas of the Upper Strymon and Middle Axios, in order to invade the lands of the rebellious Illyrians. The information on the Thracian units in Alexander’s army during the wars in Asia suggest a marked difference in the status of the southern and northern Thracians. The main Thracian detachments more or less regularly mentioned in the battle accounts, the heavy cavalry commanded by the Macedonian Agathon and the light infantry which included the akontistai of Sitalces and probably another smaller body of peltasts jointly commanded by Ptolemaeus the “strategos of the Thracians,” are usually designated either as “Thracians” or as “Odrysians” and therefore would have come mainly from the territories of the Odrysian kingdom annexed by Philip. The light Paeonian horsemen commanded by Ariston and the elite light infantry (akontistai) of the Agriani under Attalus are similarly recognized as regular conscription units. Diodorus is the only author who mentions, in the list of Alexander’s army crossing into Asia, Triballian and Illyrian infantry; these seem to have been allied volunteers or mercenaries rather than conscripted units. The Triballi are not mentioned any more, and similarly there is no mention at all of Getae in the accounts of Alexander’s wars in the East.

(To continue)

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Buildings and architecture

 

Housing

Xenophon (Anabasis 7.4) describes fighting in Thracian villages near Perinthus in 399. His comments on the settlements are vague, but are certainly consistent with the remains of small villages found at Vinitsa, Brestak, and Devnja. Vinitsa was a fourth-century hamlet of twenty or twenty-five one-roomed rectangular wattle-and-daub huts. The roofs would have been pitched and made of thatch. The huts ranged from 3×3 m to 4.5×4.5 m, and most were “Halberdhütten,” in which the floor level inside the hut had been dug out some 30–90 cm deeper than the ground level outside, to give more headroom. Most huts had a small internal hearth in or near one corner, and an oven built against an outside wall, often under a simple lean-to. There were numerous round pits, some for garbage, but most for grain storage. These villages would have had 100–200 inhabitants. There were also some bigger and longer-lived sites, such as Shoumen, which was partly protected by double stone walls; and recent work at Adjiyska Vodenitsa (an emporion called Pistiros) has revealed houses built from monumental stone blocks. This site was bigger than Shoumen, and may have been a princely seat within the Odrysian kingdom (while being as well a commercial center for the Greeks). There had been Greek cities on the Black Sea coast at Apollonia, Mesembria, Odessos, and Histria since Archaic times, but most Thracians went on living in tiny villages. As with the handmade pottery, it was only in Hellenistic times that traditional ways changed significantly. Philip II founded cities at Beroe, Kabyle, and Philippopolis in 342/1, and Aegean-style urban life began to penetrate Thrace. Late in the fourth century, the Thracian rebel Seuthes established Seuthopolis. This small town was filled with very Greek-looking large courtyard houses, but they were organized around a distinctively Thracian palace complex. The houses had mudbrick walls on low stone foundations, faced with plaster on lath, and tile roofs. In the third and second centuries, the kind of villages Xenophon had seen became less common in southern Thrace.

 

Cannot find any sketch of these huts described above so here some random Iron Age examples of pit-house and wattle-and-daub houses (up to 3D artist to do whatever he wants from the description):

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Brick houses:

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Pistiros - Adjiyska Vodenitsa
 

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"Seuthopolis provides a good example of a manifest regularity, repeated in many settlements that become prominent political centers and seats of members of the high aristocracy; developed quickly, often without continuity with earlier settlements in the same locality, within a short time they become central in the settlement hierarchy. Many such sites, however, lose their importance equally quickly or come to an end, as their livelihood was evidently closely bound to that of their founders and the political structures created by them. The duration of settlement occupation at Vasil Levski, Krastevich, Seuthopolis, and Sboryanovo was brief, ranging from a few decades to slightly more than a century. In the last decade, in fact, the issue of whether or not some of the settlement forms widely distributed throughout Thrace ca. second half of the 1st millennium bce were in fact royal residences has undergone an important development. Various ancient authors mention fortified small places, “thyrseis,” that have been interpreted by modern scholars as towers or residences which served as “permanent homes of the Thracian aristocracy” or a “typical kernel of urbanization in Thracian settlement life” (Fol 1970, 166–168, with summary of the ancient sources). For a long time, this specific element of the Thracian settlement structure has had no convincing archaeological counterpart or, alternatively, the architectural complex excavated on the shores of Mandrensko Lake near Burgas was cited as a unique example (Dimitrov 1958; Balabanov 1984). The recent discovery of the residences near Kozi Gramadi (Khristov 2011, and earlier publications cited), Smilovene (Agre and Dichev 2010а, 214–217), Sinemorets (Agre and Dichev 2010b, 217–219), and Knyazhevo (Agre and Dichev 2013, 143–145) have revised this picture and confirmed the ancient sources. These compact architectural complexes are characterized by monumental architecture and often fortification; Knyazhevo is at present the only exception. On the other hand, the investigations at Sinemorets demonstrate that this settlement form, specific to Thrace, was in use not only in the heyday of early Thracian states, between the fifth and the first half of the third century bce, but also during the later stages of the Hellenistic period. [...]

Undoubtedly the most prominent manifestation of centralization processes and stratification in the settlement system of Thrace arrives with the emergence of political capitals – the leading urban centers of various Thracian political formations. If southern Thrace has yielded the example of Seuthopolis, for northeastern Thrace such a role is played by the Getic city research has enabled some investigators to identify the Thracian settlement in Sboryanovo with Helis, the capital of the Getic ruler Dromichaetes – a political opponent of Lysimachus (Delev 1990; Stoyanov 2000b; Stoyanov in press, cf. Chapter 5). The image that the city boasted during the end of the fourth and the beginning of the third century bce corresponds to its leading position within the strong Getic state developed on both sides of Danube. In the fortified area of the settlement both residential and artisanal neighborhoods existed. Recent archaeological data show that, in the southwestern part of the fortified section of the city, the remains of a basileia – an internal quarter in which the ruling aristocratic elite resided (Stoyanov in press) – can be identified. Numerous residential neighborhoods and other urban areas of commercial and manufacturing character were located outside the city walls, with the total area of the city exceeding 30 ha. Archaeology shows that the city was destroyed by an earthquake in the middle of the third century bce. Attempts to resurrect it failed to restore its previous role. The site at Sboryanovo does not seem to have followed in its development the main trends outlined on the basis of the settlements of higher rank located in southern Thrace. The site’s excavator rightly notes that, in its development of the individual elements of its urban character, architectural forms, and construction techniques, the settlement diverges from the rules of Greek and Hellenistic architectural features, which had been directly imported in some centers south of Stara Planina, but rather shows a regional variation of local development (Stoyanov 2006; Stoyanov in press)."

Sinemorets

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For the fortress of Shumen, this is a place occupied for a very long time and most of the construction are actually medieval I think. A picture of the site is not useful in our case. I starting to understand why there are so little information about these fortresses: here, here and here. Nationalist fantasy everywhere :crazy:

Sboryanovo:

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Royal tombs (possible civic center or temple):
 

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Tumulus and Telos like tombs:

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Tumulus with a Temenos (rectangular area):

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Getae Tumulus Tomb:

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image.png.4240131884be9830f7808fcfe0b316ed.pngimage.thumb.png.b69157e3c3c6a368c4a90042051829ef.png

 

image.thumb.png.0219aa978a6c56af594e63be766a2a12.png

image.png.5dae1094ebe0e64289c87e9e8a96b2ed.png

image.png.608d6f596e2866cd95ba00075316f983.png

General scheme of Greek tholos tomb:

image.png.46f9973926d2a0f60336861b75e9190a.png

 

Greek temples in Thracian towns (possible use as a temple?):

  Hide contents

image.png.27d4470e4fd6f0663d35c1fa32090b93.png

 

Royal palace of Seuthopolis (inhabited between 325 to 281 BC):

  Hide contents

image.png.57cf30e26ec6467144f2d417603db052.png

Walls and fortifications:

  Hide contents

image.png.6ff4419086734a523f328f74724751f4.png

image.png.5726516d0a8ec79adfa8c1b124e81445.png

image.png.907d66f55b21013bc2c4fb50469e13e6.png

image.thumb.png.92a6288320019905fea14d327cb1538c.png

image.thumb.png.043ab8bc3e3fcde5643b448ef422e614.png

image.png.7847d3ed620189eb464ee0f49aba7638.png

image.png.e0fefa8f7eb41059c9412118f4f4a7fb.png

image.thumb.png.1d991a40bf579ddeb5a2f4a205d6e6eb.png

image.thumb.png.69dcc3da35e7260e7959ace170e7eb5d.png

image.png.670588fbb434dd3d6f4ea16e528874a2.png

image.thumb.png.b3baddb7288c0b55017eca1ed2171725.png

image.png.4f9f8ca4a8a194304ced7994f2ea43f8.png

Getae (Sboryanovo):

image.png.3d18deae7e24cf360ce9363fb88919a4.png

Dacians fortresses:

image.png.a18a907d07a97fa769f1b8ef509d3d16.png

image.png.d32addeb35d5fb3698186b4e91526257.png

 

image.png.92ed7431cb66db400112bc28bf111011.png

image.png.1d18186ca36b38a75cc9cc7e207e9e77.png

image.png.1849ddd2db56f926ae84f48f61e17d56.png

image.png.db46d2e4fa8ba4317a81b88495d0c625.png

image.png.7233fcbfd799a5eba4e126e2ec3fe616.png

image.png.1e03147bb2bbf3e87012cbfe732774e3.png

 

Getae sanctuary:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.png.15b87949fb4b036f36c3d558e2c6e3ac.png

Dacian sanctuaries (actually they are not similar to the Getae and Thracians):

  Reveal hidden contents

image.png.8374c3561a264d68fa8b3d151d973fa3.png

image.png.68fff34d91e77a4f828bd4246e54315f.png

image.thumb.png.9ff985da21ff185c9e601ca279294829.png

image.png.945b13c34815c8377dde66cfee9389d3.png

image.png.ef3ec2030e986a06984d6bb43d401038.png

image.thumb.png.4d7dbc8f78abfbdb38b79e3a9c27604d.png

image.png.e2c013f27edfa5a8599d5db52482d61d.png

 

Sanctuary from Piatra Roşie

image.thumb.png.8800411d3f5e341d097c7817a4e2160d.png

image.png.c1c6dc6765ec4d7ba6c99c9c488db53a.png

Rock-cut monument:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.png.fb9bf20bf7ab48162b508f4e3eb16fe7.png

 

image.png.90e32fbf82b35cbe371aa0e5b4b8df47.pngimage.png.776ee9ed1d32fe8d4b902aa036e7f9de.png

 

image.thumb.png.1c2d39e0b9a12c287595e14b40fc8158.pngimage.png.15c2ddbb7312b04be6bef85ac2efcd0f.png

image.png.f47569d8955c0d043da58c35c2dcdbd1.pngimage.png.b6e4048e713bb0865a14a80732432f95.png

image.png.5289dcecfae47a613745742d037a5361.png

image.png.96c15856d5e44efbd72bebb1a765c2ae.pngimage.png.e2f1e9773c801e443c5e83ea7f339a15.pngimage.png.a8261cbcec640dd8dd2df30e882415c4.pngimage.png.6db97bc9fe6bfe10b396b6db3ba4c837.pngimage.png.3071b6df839b513178d0b2b124899042.pngimage.png.c710b4bb29026aae52d41140ee2b5742.pngimage.png.791eba241cb500c36b3a288c3a391ae1.png

 

 

Roster:

Early Peltast/Akontistai or Highlander Thracians (Triballi, Dii, Serdi, etc.) as described by Xenophon:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.png.a2d35b782f360ccd6ea9194e817f01a9.png

image.png.04c947b22e272f275b9e31adad6f32c1.pngimage.png.433477149f27880ae57bfa822022b30a.png

image.png.0db5e77ea214acc77375e6df140adea2.png

image.thumb.png.49a30c79498097608246e3e1a0cacbdc.png

image.thumb.png.0fc7c9a29ce9eda489a5960151773b69.png

image.thumb.png.03881b6fb2cf8c3179bfab785c2d22b9.png

image.png.7a771f078184668ac566e855df540bd9.png

image.png.556aae99fe81e0290c2935eab54978ef.png

image.png.88243c415f98eb3640a4c12910c847ac.png

Archers:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.png.fe70a9fe78d00a852aae19298aa621c1.png

image.png.4af25d37cddcd315f27ff69c25e72834.png

image.png.b3be263a070dcd5e549ed089907e305c.png

image.thumb.png.6465d51f4fad239daa52ad1c1b9faa12.png

 

Dii swordsmen/machairaphoroi (highlander Thracians):

  Reveal hidden contents

“Beginning with the Odrysians, he [Sitalkes] first called out the Thracian tribes subject to him between Mounts Haemus and Rhodope and the Euxine and Hellespont; next the Getae beyond Haemus, and the other tribes settled south of the Danube in the neighborhood of the Euxine, who, like the Getae, border on the Scythians and are armed in the same manner, being all mounted archers. Besides these he summoned many of the independent Thracian hill tribes, swordsmen called Dii, mostly inhabiting Mount Rhodope, some of whom came as mercenaries, others as volunteers; also the Agrianes and the Leaeans; there the empire of Sitalkes ends and the territory of the independent Paeonians begins. Bordering on the Triballi, also independent, were the Treres and the Tilataeans, who dwell to the north of Mount Scombrus and extend toward the setting sun as far as the river Oskius.” – Thucydides

image.png.dbbd48c9723d056364b7a848c5364bed.png

image.png.5532a39031edf45268f4c176b8c423f0.png

image.png.ff644f42c5889d46198bba0ccb119d70.png

image.png.2d8dd951837325eb272373d7b15b2590.png

image.png.8c14f26931f4ca61c572bb26e880b92b.png

image.png.5162256b31e93588ec7765e0ec28a31b.png

image.png.66276d885135283702e6af8996c0cad1.png

image.png.187c6a036eeafc3c298bc4dd336d6ba9.png

image.thumb.png.736973c31497c31d740214467cbcd1ff.png

image.png.4c831d860175593654871071a42b03dc.png

 

 

 

Noble spearman or Noble spear cavalryman:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.png.95f86cb86748bf91057052eb6eb7c72d.png

image.png.a8b51d9132ebbd21008fbf6d203f47a0.png

image.png.2771e2b86687bd479acec8101b486936.png

image.png.351222c9d828cd610cde1c50c98d29b7.png

image.png.f8643b897f135f28e9c8ae758aacb773.png

image.png.d5bdc0f52513d16dcc4d94db211cf340.png

 

image.png.41dff463f396f4ae93882ff95f7e30c2.png

image.png.b3a06669af1a8a5fb06728c51020bb0c.png

image.png.a25caa4d04330121f5c48080826221ef.png

 

Light cavalry:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.png.95f86cb86748bf91057052eb6eb7c72d.png

image.thumb.png.5ca82c49580f46e6c33a759a7fd29f73.png

image.thumb.png.9e40101072831cc634393e16389fe74b.png

image.png.a2d35b782f360ccd6ea9194e817f01a9.png

Light noble cavalry:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.b04ca55d44e3f73677cf3696ec7fc6ca.png

image.thumb.png.8b78977fda74ceed71b43dad446fa8ef.png

image.thumb.png.d2b33c3ed49f92d4e30e77756a6c8b49.png

image.png.a716dae5b4df1da20ea662f56cbb0edb.png

Getae Horse archer:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.png.2b4d8941b9ef8fad5dd480a85c94f061.png

Celtic influenced Noble Thracians:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.7050d0b0f91240ab3738b7bc871da581.png

image.png.ef27b60af5c453691624ce8eb2e6352a.png

image.png.ef083832f2e61a3ebb1a69b08de37170.png

image.png.63578ad75ee8dbeca6559133d1185ce5.pngimage.thumb.png.a89745a005fddbf2f60a5b6af43861b5.png

Armor:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.png.abcb7f360d16eb8bf64785d9691b6539.png

image.png.456224e34c1ec301536fac986d1e36c9.png

image.png.43e51bd83d11fe88eea5ee827f41c7c7.png

image.thumb.png.32e7b02c2c5e2b6a1e25d5a7f8442736.png

image.png.a3afdf8ec60e07ee868996909c705301.png

image.png.1a531eb47b74dcbcba4f6e3e985cc648.png

image.png.ba14298fdd8b2c498a9ef9ddf4d974a9.png

image.png.fbd7f7f9f370944fa7e3c42bdc7781e9.png

helmman.jpg

image.thumb.jpeg.fb5523a4db9f56fe03b2d0fbc61700b9.jpeg

image.thumb.jpeg.79a0d1a4785893891b8bc79fa6386f6c.jpeg

image.png.2fdfd2188edb632241e7a17c273cf068.pngimage.png.ac6b16de59e0a46f6f27cbaa967e112f.pngimage.thumb.png.279ad08f16270473b26e4b56f8a29d2f.png

image.thumb.png.6fcdb9fb4758fe5b1ef93acd78450a2a.png

Artillery and fortifications:

  Reveal hidden contents

image.png.399054954044d69679a8e1b473921587.pngimage.thumb.png.f6185696d2c23b81cca059836781bb2a.png

image.thumb.png.0a296424e0f0300f1ca9ca9f52641be5.png

image.png.4e3112659e104d481f0418f2c581fea4.png

rhomphaia infantryman:

"They were tall men armed with white shining shields and greaves, underneath dressed with black chitons, swaying on their right shoulders raised upwards heavy iron rhomphaias."  - Plutarchus

"And the Thracians could not even use their rumpias here, which, being too long, intertwined with the stretching from everywhere tree branches." - Livy

  Reveal hidden contents

image.thumb.png.7575805f177ca1ff65a830436be83c2f.png

image.png.ed621bee368635a31de7125439040221.png

image.png.a9213669bfc9280667e42f2c2f907bcb.png

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total_war1444415510_74-2-4_t_.jpg
total_war1444415966_74-2-1_t_.jpg

 

 

Up.

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On 08/12/2020 at 5:13 PM, Duileoga said:

Buenas ;

 

-Creo que la facción tracia podría ser la excepción a la regla de que los edificios no cambian en cada fase , ya que hay muchas referencias diferentes para los tracios y al mismo tiempo el intento de introducir a los Odrisios que eran tracios pero con una arquitectura diferente me hace pensar que para ellos si podría ser posible esta cualidad.

También podría ser una Bonificación de facción , que en cada fase los edificios fueran un poco más duros ya que los elementos de construcción son más resistentes pero también un poco más caros.

 

 

Edificios para la "Fase 1" de 3 fases;

 

(Las estructuras también podrían cambiar de formas al cambiar de fase no solo lo harían las texturas)

 

-Almacén ;

135739983_almacntraciofase1.png.a6524744087ded0ce70ba274cc84dfb7.png

-Casas;

790949951_casastraciasfase1.png.2555a4f71679832034a521e206800d73.png

-Centro urbano;

496297535_centrourbanotraciofase1.png.ba0801c0cebb0aafbd9cc001e18a51de.png

-Corral;

2076585579_corraltraciofase1.png.5b54ea69b9afcad5cc7bd56eec11df75.png

-Cuartel;

476362411_cuarteltraciofase1.png.14e6fb7d3578cb78b03cca0672814286.png

-Granja;

1569081828_granjatraciafase1.png.9830080a9595b89b7bd74165b786ceed.png

-Murallas;

1387490881_murallatraciafase1.png.8659866deff04541d6ec828e49a1d3a2.png

-Puerto;

1650482892_puertotraciofase1.png.32e146d2153d131f580b82b4db01a33c.png

Torre defensiva pequeña;

665633122_torredefensivatraciapequeafase1.png.ec74b332e9df555300fb8756fa30ea56.png

 

-Aldea;

739707713_aldeatraciafase1.png.84223df88681f884b6cc76de510cf762.png

 

(No añadí decoraciones porque eso lleva más tiempo y quería presentar mi idea lo antes posible y si es descartada pues no perdería el tiempo con algo que no va a hacerse realidad y si es aceptada los incluiré)

 

Referencias;

 

862132538_aldeatracia2.png.92905d00d5ede25775af95bcc8983315.png1590306448_aldeatracia.png.036b4d44ee0344b23b001f1e590a4b70.png1108025288_casamodelofase1.png.5f3bcd23160de5a3cccf7e13c79dba68.png1847759477_casasconmurallastracias.png.384a1b00f6a62e67adcce708b4424a16.png260535275_casastracias.png.abac3576301f8a7ab9405808bcf5761e.png1105531718_edificiostracios.png.3919aaff279d3b81c6705bc79d44c535.png

 

 

 

 

-(esta última es la referencia para los colores)

 

1356308558_mundorural.png.4a8cdf6c6148df2444f33d4a815547bc.png

 

 

 

 

Disculpen las molestias*

 

Please can you send me these models? The are amazing and I would like to implement them into the mod. Thanks.

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