The Kingdom of Kush: A proper introduction [Illustrated]

[Lion.Kanzen]

But you must a need a new Emblem?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

  On 10/07/2017 at 4:10 PM, Lion.Kanzen said:

But you must a need a new Emblem?

Expand  

Yes plox

[Lion.Kanzen]

Help me to found something suitable.

[Sundiata]

For the emblem, look no further than the reliefs of the Ram-headed Amun, the Kushite state-god. In those days, Amun reigned supreme...

  Reveal hidden contents

Closeup of a relief depicting the ram headed Amun-re, on the Shrine of the 25th dynasty pharaoh and Kushite King Taharqa, Kawa, 7th century BCE

 

The God Amun in a relief on one of Naqa's temples, Meroitic period.

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

Complicated put those in a single rounded Emblem.

but I have the basic elements to make my own.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

 

[Sundiata]

The Boats of Kush

In this post, I will aim to clarify the still somewhat open question of boats in ancient Kush. We know that they had them, and that they used them for transport, fishing, trade and warfare. The only thing that was actually missing is are period depictions of Meroitic boats. But, as luck would have it, I have finally found an example of a Meroitic period boat, carved in a relief on the inside of one of Meroe's pyramid chapels. This image proves my earlier assumptions that Meroitic riverine culture was essentially very similar to that of ancient Egypt, probably due to the fact that this particular type of Nile valley boat was actually developed as early as the Mesolithic period in central Sudan. 

"Hieroglyphs showing a boat felluka(?) inside the pyramid in Nubian pharaohs and kings necropolis in Meroe Nubia Sudan"

 

In the following spoiler, you can see a collection of Neolithic petroglyphs of Nile valley boats of various sizes, from the Neolithic/pre-Kerma period in Sudan. A very clear illustration of thousands of years of Nile valley boat culture remaining remarkably unchanged.

  Reveal hidden contents

The following 2 images represent, probably the oldest known image of a Nile Valley boat, with an estimated age of anywhere from (7050 BC to 6640 BC), excavated from underneath an elongated Meroitic burial mound, "labelled 16-D-5 following the taxonomy proposed by F. Hinkel (1977: 24-6) on the western bank of the White Nile about 25km south of Omdurman (36 P 0436329/ UTM 1708138)". The steering mechanism, shape of the vessel and central cabin would become the hallmark of Nile boats for the coming millennia. http://www.antiquity.ac.uk/projgall/usai/

 

 

The following pictures were taken by Retlaw Snellac Photography, at Wadi Sabu a Neolithic site in Sudan. These Nubian depictions show typical Nile valley boats, long before Egypt even saw it's first pharaoh.

Retlaw had this to say about the site:

"Sudan - the black pharaohs: 

Wadi Sabu, a place of exceptional Neolithic rock art.

 Many of the sites are exceptionally well-preserved due to the arid environmental conditions encountered in northern Sudan. Amongst over 50 Neolithic sites, several have significant potential for further research, while the more than 70 sites of rock drawings identified in the region include some of the most important such sites known anywhere in the Sudan, with very spectacular sites at both Sabu and Kajbar. These represent some of the last surviving examples of a distinctive ' Nubian' riverine tradition of rock art, otherwise largely destroyed by the Aswan Dam."

 

The following picture is of particular interest, because, apart from having 8 oars and a large central cabin, it actually shows what seems to be a horse, standing on the prow of the boat, illustrating that even at this early time, horses, and probably cattle were being transported up and down the Nile in Sudan. The interesting steering mechanism can clearly be seen, being operated by a man, as another man stands on top of the cabin.

 

 

 

I will now repost a number of higher res versions of images from the tomb of Huy (tt40), King's son of Kush, or Viceroy, to the Egyptian Pharaoh Ramesses II.These Viceroys of Kush were Nubian Royalty, recruited by the New Kingdom Pharaohs, as their local representatives in Kush. They would become the ancestors of the Napatan, and later Meroitic Kings. The images are interesting because they show a large array of vessels, belonging to Huy, coming from Kush, bearing tribute to the pharaoh. For all intents and purposes, these boats can be seen as Kushite, and once again illustrate the continuing tradition of these particular types of Nile valley boats. These are the references that should be used for Kushite boats.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

@stanislas69, Maybe we could see some more of that lovely looking boat of yours?

 

Edited July 12, 2017 by Sundiata

[Stan`]

@Sundiata well it's already in the main game as the Ptolemaic merchant ship ^^'''

[Sundiata]

Aah, yes, I see...   Anyway, probably still a useful model for the Kushites, if only as a reference?

On another note, balduin had mentioned in an earlier post, that papyrus doesn't grow everywhere along the banks of the Nile in Sudan, so papyrus fishing boats wouldn't have been ubiquitous. Seen as we know dugout canoes were also used by the people of Kush, and they are still used by some of the people in South Sudan today, we can use those as the reference for the Kushite fishing boat. This would also help distinguish them from Ptolemies or Egyptians, giving them a little more of an African touch. 

  Reveal hidden contents

Dugout canoes of the Nuer, a Nilothic people in South Sudan

 

A modern day fisherman and son(?) in the Sud wetlands, at the farthest reaches of ancient Kush.

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Here's what this faction needs:

-Decide on unit roster, then create a thread for reference gathering and art progress.

- Repeat the above for all other aspects of the civ.

[balduin]

@Sundiata I like the dugout canoes. There speed is depending on the length 5-7 km/h (length times two).

  On 12/07/2017 at 4:32 PM, Sundiata said:

as we know dugout canoes were also used by the people of Kush, and they are still used by some of the people in South Sudan today, we can use those as the reference for the Kushite fishing boat. This would also help distinguish them from Ptolemies or Egyptians, giving them a little more of an African touch.

Expand  

Furthermore, they don't drift away easily by either wind or current. Both are present on the part of the Nile, according to this documentary:

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

  On 12/07/2017 at 4:03 PM, stanislas69 said:

@Sundiata well it's already in the main game as the Ptolemaic merchant ship ^^'''

Expand  

Could this model be reexported with a projectile and garrison prop points? Can be good fora Kushite light warship. We need to come up with some common designs or patterns for flags and sails and such as well. @Sundiata any insight for that?

Edited July 14, 2017 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Sundiata]

@balduin That documentary actually features nice Sudanese Nile versions of felluca's, which the narrator states have been used there for the past 3000 years. As well as some lovely Northern Sudanese Nubian village houses, remarkably similar to @Juli51's Concept drawing of a Nubian house... Another house variation? Or is that too much? 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

And some clear images of traditional Sudanese Felluca's

  Reveal hidden contents

  

@wowgetoffyourcellphone Maybe the traditional triangular felluca sail can be used for the small to medium ships? Helps distinguish them..

  Reveal hidden contents

 

Edited July 14, 2017 by Sundiata

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Depends what you mean by small and medium ships. As far as I can tell from this thread and my own reading, these guys should probably only have a fishing boat, merchant ship, and light warship. So triangle sail for fishing boat and merchant ship?

 

When I ask about patterns or designs for flags and sails I mean for player color.

Edited July 14, 2017 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Sundiata]

Oh, I see, I kind of agree to not having large vessels, as I don't think they ever navigated the open sea.

 

In that case:

- fishing boat: dugout canoe (no sail)

- Merchant ship: modeled on the traditional falucca, with a long triangular sail, but with a steering mechanism modelled after the ancient examples on the petroglyphs.  

- light warship: Modeled on the typical Nile valley boat. Essentially an adapted version of the Ptolemaic merchant ship. 

 

For the dugout canoe, only the clothes of the fisherman, and perhaps his fishing net/equipment can be used as player color, as the boat is just a hollowed out, undecorated log.

The merchant ship should just have a white sail. Small strips of cloth tied to the ropes, as well as some minimal geometric paint designs along the length of the boat could be used for player color, as well as the clothes of the trader seated in the vessel. Decorated rudders also seem to be popular (see below).

The light warship could be fully decorated, following classical Egyptian designs. It should have a rectangular sail, that could potentially have the player color, or religious designs and motifs like an image of the ram-headed Amun, the Eye of Horus, or Apedemak, in the player color. There is enough room with this ship for choices regarding player color and designs.  

Here's another good (Egyptian) example of what a light Kushite warship (or trade ship, in fact), could have looked like: 

 

And some basic idea's for designs:

  Reveal hidden contents

 

 

Edited July 14, 2017 by Sundiata

[balduin]

@Sundiata You shared the following: "I will now repost a number of higher res versions of images from the tomb of Huy (tt40)" all those pictures show one single hull for big ships with sails. The smaller transport ships show two hulls near each other. This is especially shown in the image with the caption "Fig 3 Scene from...." . It almost looks like ships with two hulls. Maybe they put to ships together floated down the Nile, separated them and sailed up the river again.

Furthermore, the design of the Dhow's (Felucca) has a couple of advantages:

• Only one canvas is needed
• It is easy to pull them down if the wind is to strong (storm) or in this case if you want to float down the Nile.
• It is possible to almost sail in the wind [1]

I think the only change to the design which was made over the last couple hundred years was the steering oar. All pictures @Sundiata shared show a earlier version of the same idea, with one steering oar at the end of the ship.

[1] http://nabataea.net/sailing.html

[balduin]

@wowgetoffyourcellphone We are currently in the process to in deciding upon the unit roaster. However, we go the other way around -> first gathering references and afterwards deciding which units should be in the game. We choose this method, because you cannot find easily material regarding the kushites. @Sundiata does outstanding work in finding high quality references.

We now have most of the units for the village phase.

The unit roaster for the Kushites will be:

• Archer -> Nubian Bowmen
• Spearman -> Nubian Spearman
• Worker Woman
• Fishing Boat -> dugout canoe
• Ranged Cavalry? Horse or camel mounted? Javelin or archer?

@Sundiata what do you think should be the Ranged Cavalry?

I was thinking about a horse mounted archer.

[Lion.Kanzen]

@balduin if meets to @Mega Mania someday,Mathis guy knows a lot of things.

he ever ask me why I create some Nubians units using  cavalry.

and ask to remove Egyptian archer to Neocretan.

and knows a lot of cavalry. He say the Nubians don't use too much horse in the battle.

[balduin]

@Mega Mania is more than welcome to contribute to the discussion.

[Lion.Kanzen]

  On 15/07/2017 at 5:56 AM, balduin said:

@Mega Mania is more than welcome to contribute to the discussion.

Expand  

One day I wait see him. This people get lost for years.

[Sundiata]

Hi @Lion.Kanzen, with all respect to Mega Mania's knowledge, the (extensive) use of horses in ancient Kush is well attested by now, through written history (Kushite, Greek, Egyptian, Neo-Assyrian), pictorial evidence (petroglyphs, reliefs, graffiti...), and physical evidence (horses with equipment found buried with a number of early Napatan Kings, as well as the later Kings from Ballana).

On top of that, Lisa A. Heidorn wrote an extensive article on the subjects called "The Horses of Kush", which I believe you quoted yourself in a previous discussion on Nubians (a few years ago).

They didn't only use horses, they bred and exported them on what seems to be a relatively large scale.

Also, Ptolemies made use of Nubian mercenaries. They might have been used, predominantly as crowd-controll and guard duties for important temples, as they have been used for these purposes for thousands of years. So they may not have been used extensively on the battlefield by Ptolemies, but they were definitely around...  

  Reveal hidden contents

Nubian mercenary cavalry-axe-man in Ptolemaic service, even equipped with Hellenistic armaments :

 

 

Also, I assume that the info used to dismiss the presence of Nubians in Ptolemaic armies ignores completely the 300 years or so of Ptolemaic military campaigning back and forth in... (Northern) Nubia...

Just to clarify things a little.. 

Edited July 18, 2017 by Sundiata

[Sundiata]

The Horses of Kush

Lisa A. Heidorn (PhD, Archaeology of NE Africa)

 

  Reveal hidden contents

 

[LordGood]

@Sundiata Square CC fits the footprint quite nicely, actually. Hopefully its lacks the defensive features to out it as a 'fortress'. I plan on using a whole lotta rough stone for that building anyway.

[Stan`]

Hey don't forget the AO for that one Looks gorgeous .

[LordGood]

its got AO in the screenie silly