Genava55

I suggested Remogantion (but can be Remocantion as well). Gantion or Cantion is a name for the assembly, we find it in Trigance (from Trigantia / Tricantia, three assemblies) or in Kent (from Cantium). In Old Irish it is Céite. Remos is a word meaning "prince" or "first one", it is similar to the latin Princeps which comes from Primus. Edit: if you want something simpler for the Atlas, you can call it Cantion or Gantion, simply meaning the assembly.

Why not, but I have the same question than Sundiata, why not in the vanilla? He said amphora and imported goods since it is a symbol of prestige and something found on the location. Nothing more. It was a short talk about it, we were busy with the x-ray tomography of a rusty find in Switzerland (I have some experience in x-ray tomography from a previous project).

Your shields are really pretty nice @Alexandermb ! These ones however, could be problematic to distinguish since the player color is really tiny and narrowly displayed: And these ones with some player color, especially the player 7: The rectangular ones are very cool on the skirmishers: Some patterns have very often trouble to be displayed correctly, like this one that appears often like this: I know it is based on this shield I suggested, but it seems a bit hard to have the right condition from random generation to display it correctly. Maybe it should be better if the griffin/bird heads were a bit smaller

I am working but I take the opportunity of a break just to suggest you different damage type if you want to go in this direction. A shield can be made from several planks, an unique large plank or from complex work similar to plywood. The shield can be covered or directly painted. The cover is generally in leather. Thus the cover can be scratched or teared. The shield bosses can also be damaged from direct blow from other shields. An example from germanic era: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thorsberg_moor The Clonoura shield is also another example with traces of blows and hits. The Vaedebro shield is finally an example where it is possible to see traces of fixing like metallic clip.

@Alexandermb awesome, I will test it this evening or tomorrow. Superb work! @wowgetoffyourcellphone thanks for the advice, I will try to keep this in mind for the design of the units!

I talked with an archeologist that worked on Corent and he told me that the theatron is looking nice like this. They have found shield bosses in the location of the hemicycle and the idea of shields in front of the rows are plausible. They also found a Coolus helmet imported from Italy there, dated from the very beginning of the 1st century BC. The idea of a political and military assembly are indeed the prefered hypothesis.

The player color seems a bit less saturated but maybe it is because of the dark background and the wooden part of the shields seem slightly different. Right?

Since it will be more useful there, I copied the art I disseminated in the other threads here and add a few things: British Iron Age art: British shields inspiration: Early La Tène Continental Iron Age art : Suite La Tène Continental art: Coins art, 1st century BC mainly:

Perfect These shapes should be exclusive to the Britons: + some other possibles candidates like smaller shields and narrower shields (like the Witham shield). Also there are unique shield bosses and decoration as candidates for them. And the Britons should be able to share the oval shields with the other factions.

Stop the taunting for God's sake...

I was not clear. I am just saying that the limits between a city builder and a RTS is a bit blurry sometimes. City-builder games can borrow RTS concepts and RTS games can borrow city-builder concepts. Dawn of Man have not huge battle, it is only about defending yourself against some waves. It is a city-builder but with a few RTS features in it.

It is like Stronghold, a mixture between a RTS and a city builder or Empire at War, a mixture between a RTS and a RTT (Real-Time Tactics). Hard to see the limit between these concepts.

These are very nice, a lot of variation and you find a very smart way to use and assemble them for the future. Is there a classification for the shield bosses? I mean something like shield_boss_a, shield_boss_b, etc.

Clearly, yes. Shapes are shared by a lot of cultures. In fact the oval and ovalish shields are probably from the Italics and the Etruscans, and got adopted by the Celts during the 6th century BC at the end of the Hallstatt culture. Iberians started to use much more the oval shields because of the Carthaginian, Roman and Celtic influence. The thureos from the Greeks could come from an inspiration took from their experience with Italic and Celtic mercenaries during the 5th and 4th century BC and the following Gallic invasion in the 3rd century BC. The shield bosses are more distinctive between the cultures but some can easily be shared.

If it is possible to make an evolution for the Bariogaisatos: Basic => no helmet, different haircuts, cape or no cape, medium or tall shields. Advanced => Montefortino and ciumesti helmets, crested or not crested, cape or no cape, golden torcs, tall shields, shield bosses (umbo)  Elite => Port, Mihovo and Foret helmets, crested or not crested, Cape, Golden torcs and armlets, tall shields, shield bosses (umbo)

Effect: Roman and Greek units shitt their tunica and chiton instantly

Nakedness from an Indo-European view is something common and is making reference to a kind of animality and natural force. Berserkir are often depicted as naked as well. Nakedness is often associated with homeric warriors and Greek art. 7th and 6th century hoplites are often represented as naked, notably by the Spartans and the Etruscans here, here and here (+bonus). Clearly, the thing has continued by being an artistic license but it seems that it has roots from an older ethos. Greek art, historiography and mythology are full of these archaisms about nakedness and furious warriors. Less known, exterior from the Indo-European world, some Assyrians warriors have been described as naked enraged warrior in the Tukulti-Ninurta Epic: “They are furious, raging, taking forms strange as Anzu (Assyrian eagle-dragon). They charge forward furiously to the fray without armor, They had stripped off their breastplates, discarded their clothing, They tied up their hair and polished… weapons, The fierce heroic men danced with sharpened weapons. They blasted at one another like struggling lions…” Nakedness in religious function is also known in India with the gymnosophists (as they were called by the Greeks). But in the case of the Wales mythology, it is making reference to youthfulness and to championship. Irish mythology shows that furious warriors can take any rights through their strength, even women and properties. Tacitus account of the Germanic Chatti suggest the same, where these warriors are sacred, start any battle and have the right to go where they want. In my opinion, fighting naked is a mean to access to higher position and higher recognition. Maybe it opens the right to enter the retinue of some nobles or some warrior brotherhoods. Probably it was something more common in youth peoples to start their warrior career. How much it is related to rituals and religion? If we look into the Germanic culture, there are rituals and rites before acting like a heroic warrior. Some kind of oaths to take in front of its comrades, an offering to do, an animal to skin or a dance to perform... there are indications for all of these.

The artist took his inspiration from the re-enactment of a french association: Excepted the infamous round shield, the illustration is legit. These kind of attachments in the front of the horses are plausible. An example from a relief in North Italy:

@wackyserious If you want a variant for the Britons: And if you want variation for the head, you can use the bird helmet from Tintignac as a variant too. But for me, the druid is ok.

If we consider them as fanatics warriors, they could be recruited from the sanctuary. It will fit nicely I think since the new sanctuary is more warlike than the current one. The auditorium/assembly should be a third phase building, permitting to recruit the champions, maybe carnyx too, new technologies etc. We know for sure thanks to Caesar that Gallic "senators" and aristocrats fought in the battlefield. It could be. The only thing is that this kind of building is something developed in the late phase of the La Tène culture, when it was in a urbanization stage. Thus a third phase building. While the Gallic naked warriors are known from the third century BC, before the urbanization, and it is expected to be a second phase unit in the game. Maybe the assembly/auditorium is better suited to unlock regional units (political alliance).

Isn't it intended to be a special or champion unit? Did champion have upgrade too ? Anyway, regular or champion, both are okay.

It depends on the reasons why you are naked. It is hard to know if it is a religious thing, a tradition, a habit or anything else. But anyway there are indications for both, with and without:

Exmoor pony https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exmoor_pony Mérens horse https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mérens_horse In "The Horse in the Ancient World: From Bucephalus to the Hippodrome", chapter 3: "The argument that horses were transported during the Bronze Age from the continent to the British Isles predisposes the notion that these horses must have been domesticated as the idea of trying to bring wild horses across the Channel is ridiculous in the extreme! Undoubtedly the Celts who migrated to Britain from the Continent did import their local horses when they moved across the Channel. There are, however, some difficulties with the argument that all of the ‘native’ breeds are descended from these imported animals – particularly with regard to the Exmoor pony. Speed wrote: The Celts imported a small 10 hands high pony but it does not appear to have been pure-bred, because it had some of the characters of the eastern small pony and some characters of the southern horses. It is found buried in the graves of the Celtic settlements and was a somatic horse, but it obviously did not succeed in establishing itself in a wild state here, and its bones show evidence of diseases. Other Celtic period graves indicate that there were at least two types of horse living in Britain at this time. The graves from Blewburton included ‘a slender stallion of about 11 hands while the other was identified by Speed as the original British pony type’. It is not surprising that the Celts would have brought over their own native horse when they crossed the Channel. Why would they not? These were the animals they were familiar with that were tamed and trained in the style used by the Celts. It is also not unreasonable to assume that, upon settling into life on the British Isles, the Celts began to look at the native British Hill pony as a useful animal. Their imported horses were not well suited to the climate and fodder of the Isles, particularly in the moorland areas. The Continental horses would have lacked the physical adaptations of the British Hill pony. So the imported horses would have required more human assistance to survive. Their unsuitability for life in Britain does not mean the Celts would have abandoned breeding their imported horses. I think quite the opposite would have happened. The difficulty in keeping these animals would have made them all the more significant and valuable. The extra care required for their upkeep translated to a greater cost, thereby increasing the status associated with the owners of these horses. What about the native ponies of the British Isles? The logical answer is that the Celts began to make use of the local equine populations. Given the value of the imported horses they would not have been used for regular, everyday work or as a food source. Instead the Celts could turn to the native British ponies: they would have been comparatively inexpensive to keep. Crosses – whether through intentional breeding practices or otherwise – between the native ponies and imported horses must have occurred creating yet another type, the optimal specimen of which would have carried the best qualities of both types. As Baker correctly states, The Celts began the practice of importing animals to the British Isles and in the case of horses and ponies, it was to continue throughout history. Man quickly found that the genetic flexibility which had served the horse family so well in its natural history provided a wonderful basis for animal husbandry." For the burial of the horsemen at Gondole, the horses and geldings have a height of the withers between 118 and 130 centimeters: https://s3.amazonaws.com/academia.edu.documents/42692831/Inhumations_de_chevaux_chez_les_Arvernes20160215-6751-duv84f.pdf?AWSAccessKeyId=AKIAIWOWYYGZ2Y53UL3A&Expires=1551018501&Signature=6m0W87orCPzUD0ONq5cGsi3aNYU%3D&response-content-disposition=inline%3B filename%3DInhumations_de_chevaux_chez_les_Arvernes.pdf Here a diagram of distribution of the height of the withers (horizontal axis) from the horses remains found in two places in France: Caesar, Book 4, Ch2 : "Merchants have access to them rather that they may have persons to whom they may sell those things which they have taken in war, than because they need any commodity to be imported to them. Moreover, even as to laboring cattle, in which the Gauls take the greatest pleasure, and which they procure at a great price, the Germans do not employ such as are imported, but those poor and ill-shaped animals, which belong to their country; these, however, they render capable of the greatest labor by daily exercise. In cavalry actions they frequently leap from their horses and fight on foot; and train their horses to stand still in the very spot on which they leave them, to which they retreat with great activity when there is occasion; nor, according to their practice, is any thing regarded as more unseemly, or more unmanly, than to use housings. Accordingly, they have the courage, though they be themselves but few, to advance against any number whatever of horse mounted with housings. They on no account permit wine to be imported to them, because they consider that men degenerate in their powers of enduring fatigue, and are rendered effeminate by that commodity." => it seems to be corroborate by the finds of >140 centimeters horses during the 1st century BC among the Gauls

Maybe all of you should differentiate the part where it is about helping and the part about debating. Conflictual talk is common and not necessary a problem when it is for the sake of the debate, but in this case it is maybe getting out of hand because the stakes are high. I suggest you to remember that any of your choices are good enough for the public. Even modern Greeks won't notice the difference I think. Only people with a scholar level in ancient Greek could. Anyway, a transliteration is something mandatory problematic because a part of the information is lost or corrupted. Even in the ancient times transliteration of ancient Greek wasn't perfect. And if there is something I am sure about, it is that experts are difficult to satisfy. Remember it is a game and by essence it is impossible to really portray a culture in a perfect way in this media. I think historical accuracy is more a matter of how you want the players to remember the cultures that you are portraying. How you broke cliché, how they learnt a different view and how will remains their imaginary about these ancient cultures. Thus if you want to debate and to get a consensus, remember that the stakes are not that high. Try to take some pleasure on the process of debating and exchanging knowledge before to worry about the final result. More humility and less taunting are the first steps to a healthier debate.