Genava55

Hi guys, I should write my thesis and prepare my upcoming courses in GIS, but I realize that the important points were drowned in the discussion and debates in the "celtic reference" thread. For the moment, the Celtic roster of units is the same for both factions and there is a mixing of elements from both continental and insular cultures. Click on the spoiler to see the issues: Future problem to distinguish Britons and Gauls: As you have seen, there are a lot of various shields shapes and shield bosses found in the British islands. There is a very nice looking insular art as well to decorate everything. I can easily found insular swords and spearhead as well. BUT for the helmets there are almost nothing in the British islands. The only pieces are three bronze helmets and two of them could be related to the Roman auxiliaries but we will assume it is not. Therefore no iron helmet is known for the British Islands during the iron age. Another decorative helmet is on the Aylesford bucket but it seems impractical and still a bronze model with this shape. Same thing for the armor, excepted chain mail, there is no proof of cuirass in leather or in linen. It is something the Gauls have learned from the Greeks and the Etruscans but probably it is not something culturally interesting for the Britons who weren't in contact with these cultures. Thus I suggest the following guideline to distinguish the Britons from the Gauls: - Native shield shapes - Native british art - Woad tattoos - Reserving the cap-jockey helmets (like the Meyrick helmet) and the round coolus helmet (Cantebury) for the Britons. There is plenty of others types for the Gauls. See this thread: Edit: Ideas for Celtic rosters Edit: Outdated suggestions for Gauls and Britons, see there for complementary information:

Very nice. Maybe avoid mixing the linothorax/cuirass with the chain mail, it is probably to much to wear both.

If it is more distinctive, a more circular structure for a Celtiberian hillfort with Las Eretas. A circular structure and enclose/enfold with a continuum of houses:

It is a good point. There is no historical problem with the architecture of thatched buildings since it could been used elsewhere by the Iberians. But it is true that for the Celtiberians from Numancia, the difference will be not significative in the architecture since it is already used by the Iberians in game. All this talk and successive proposals seems to emerge from an observation; the current state of the Iberian factions is based on a non-indo-european culture while the others indo-european cultures on the peninsula are not really included in the game while they are very significative in the history of Rome (Three Celtiberians Wars against Rome, two Lusitanians Wars against Rome and some rebellion during the Sertorian War). Somehow the few Celtiberian elements are used opportunistically for the Iberians like two of the current heroes are Celtiberian and Lusitanian and not Iberians. While the others elements from these cultures are not included at all.

Anyway, the architecture from the Celtiberian at Numentia is kinda similar to some finds in Aquitaine and Southern France. We can decide later the use. @wackyserious Here a sketch of small Celtiberian hillfort

I am not against this idea. Even with this, if we do a separate faction later for the Celtiberians and the others celtic and indo-european cultures of the peninsula having a celtiberian structure for the Iberian is not a problem. The Celtiberians could be the cement between two factions. You can check on the webpage of Numentia for a good overview of Celtiberian architecture (in the first page of this thread). By the way, the Celtiberians are not the only ones that could be included in the roster. Vascones and Aquitanians are good candidates as well and they share a similar language. For example the famous Solduros of the Sotiates (Gauls) are commonly accepted as being a Gallic tradition since there are roman accounts relating this word to the Gauls. But there are also good hints suggesting an aquitanian loanwords => Zordu- in Basque is pronounced Sordu- and Soldu- in other regional dialects and this word means "indebted". Or it could be Salduria from Saldi "the horse", meaning a horsemen class.

Wow, you are a boss!

I agree. For other inspirations: https://www.artstation.com/artwork/ewo56 https://tiflos.artstation.com/projects/aP4nJ

@Lion.Kanzen It comes from there, the Marlborough bucket: http://www.berkshirehistory.com/archaeology/white_horse4.html If you are interested by alternative design to use on shields, there are an interesting tradition of dragonesque brooch in Britain: There are also chariots decorations that could be used as well:

An example of a male warrior burial with a simple armring:

For other jewelry: Wristlet Wristlet rings https://www.liberation.fr/futurs/2016/10/27/raconte-moi-ta-these-sur-l-artisanat-du-verre-gaulois_1524617 Armring/armlet necklace rings and pearls: reenactment of feminine belt:

Beware to not confuse different period, this a Hallstatt neck ring. Not La Tène. This is a kind of neck ring you will never find after 500 BC. Some other example of torque. https://br.wikipedia.org/wiki/Restr:Torque_à_tampons_Somme-Suippe_Musée_Saint-Remi_120208.jpg https://books.openedition.org/cths/2631 http://www.arbre-celtique.com/encyclopedie/torques-299.htm

Burial from Mill Hill Burial from Bryher Iron age celtic art from the British islands:

There are several bronze decorated plaques and bosses for wooden shields (there are evidences of rivets) found in the British islands: Others miniature votive shields: Interpretation from the mod EBII: Various mods and origins Clonoura shield (Ireland) Pictish shields from Antonine wall: Early medieval pictish shields: Irish Iron age Torcs: https://www.claddaghdesign.com/history/all-about-torcs/

Britons roster design: Britons roster: Village Spearman - Catucos (combatant) Javelin skirmisher - Adretos (who runs fast, attacker). Light cavalry with javelins - Marcacos (cavalryman). Town Slinger - Telmiuicos (slinger) Lance cavalry - Epossos (horseman, raider or "knight"). Swordsman - Batoros (who-hit-hard, fighter). The Caledonians are described as using longswords and small shield and the Picts are described fighting naked. War-Dogs - Agrocuna (battle/bloody/killer dog) City Champion chariot warrior - Esseda (war chariot). The Britons use war chariots with a driver and an elite warrior, they throw javelins from it and continue the fight on foot (possibility for the unit to transport one infantryman ?) Champion swordsman - Argos (battle champion, noble) Champion skirmisher infantryman - Caur (old-Irish for champion). I propose an Irish elite javelinist, with a historical irish shortsword. If the double weapons switch is implanted, it could be an interesting unit. Polyvalent.  The Britons have unique shields. Here some conceptual designs for the shape: Small with crescent-shaped ends and intensively concave. (Salisbury votive miniature + H-shaped shield of the Medieval Pictish Ardchattan Priory stone) Small oval shape. (Salisbury votive miniature). Medium and tall with crescent-shaped ends (Salisbury votive miniature, Mill Hill shield, Bryer shield) Tall, oval shape, classical. (Chertsey Shield) Tall and narrow, rectangular-ish shape with round ends. (Witham Shield) Medium, oval but slightly 8-shaped. (Battersea shield). Small square shape. (Medieval Pictish Brough of Birsay stone) Medium rectangular shape (Antonine wall + Clonoura shield) The Britons have as well unique decorated shields bosses. Here some conceptual designs: Full bronze facing (Witham, Battersea, Chertsey shields) Round central shield boss in bronze (Wandsworth shield boss, the three shield bosses of the Polden Hill, Tal-y-Llyn shield boss). Spina shaped bronze shield boss (one from Llyn Cerrig Bach, fragments from Moel Hiraddug) Several elements, shield boss (fragments from Moel Hiraddug, Grimthorpe shield) Cross shaped shield boss (Thames Fulham shield boss) For non decorated shield bosses: Helmets for the Britons units: The Canterbury helmet, bronze, (70 - 0 BC) : The Meyrick helmet, bronze, (AD 50 - 100): Aylesford bucket (50 BC), hero helmet. The Waterloo helmet (150-50 BC), hero helmet. Here the miniatures votive shields found at Salisbury:

Maybe it is a good idea to open another thread/task about the Celtic British Shields?

The most important difference is clearly the shields. They are unique to the British island. The tattoos could be a second distinctive feature. The only difficulty with the Britons is their lack of various helmet. Outside decorative and unpractical helmet, there are only two finds: A coolus type: http://www.texascoritani.com/a-late-iron-age-helmet-found-near-canterbury/ And the famous cap-jockey Meyrick Helmet: https://www.bmimages.com/preview.asp?image=00600629001 There is a supposed other helmet in the Ashmolean museum, but since the British museums are among the worst in the world to share information (f*cking vultures stealing everything in other country but sharing nothing) I cannot be sure to its origin. It could be a stolen piece from elsewhere.

There are evidences for this on the cauldron of Gundestrup and on several gallo-roman statues. The museum of Bibracte did a representation in this way for an "aide de camp": https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8a/Bibracte_Dumnorix.jpg

At the neck never. Only one.

Hi, Thank you for your proposal and your help. Yup, we know and your help could be useful in these threads:

@wackyserious @Alexandermb maybe it could be useful for you too. It was a first proposal I did.

Yep, it is why I suggested this before to decorate the Civ Center:

Reenactment groups: https://www.facebook.com/pg/samara.parcarcheologique/photos/?ref=page_internal https://www.facebook.com/trimatrici/ https://www.facebook.com/Les-Ambiani-729215287167804/ https://www.facebook.com/Les-Leuki-Troupe-de-reconstitution-protohistorique-181382625243624/ https://www.facebook.com/groups/223291187688215/ https://www.facebook.com/La-Lance-Arverne-986672904698883/ https://www.facebook.com/Viviskes/

It looks like a variante of a Forêt de Louviers helmet. But yes, the helmet is badass. Not all of them but yes, you got the idea. To be helpful here a picture of some helmets found in Spain:

The berru type should be exclusive to the Gauls but the montefortino helmets are widespread in the Celtic cultures of the iberian peninsula and also in the region of modern Catalunya (Illergetes and Indiketes).