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ProGui was never intended to give an advantage to people using it, the main reason for using ProGui is that it makes the game more enjoyable by providing less demanding ways to control production, which is the least fun part of the game to many people. then it came the anti-ProGui sentiment and players accusing others of using ProGui to take an edge over the rest of them. it built so much distrust... even after the whole smurf drama, things managed to get worse.

Well not to beat around the bush, and not to excuse geriatrix's behavior, stockfish is known to use progui. Apparently its up to you whether or not that counts as cheating. (I consider it cheating)

Sorry, I didn't realize there was a page 2 with a keep on topic In fact, there is a THREAD made by Mentula where he made some of the most objective measurements possible regarding certain advantages of the mod in terms of boom speed. And this is without considering other aspects like the military and bla bla bla I just don't want to make it long because it has already been discussed extensively in many threads. But I would like to point out that I find it regrettable that when this discussion arises, instead of having a respectful debate specifically focused on the issue at hand, direct attacks on the other person are used as a resource to discredit their argument. This type of resource is a classic known at least since Ancient Greece as an ad hominem fallacy, and I am sure that many of those present here, all intelligent and adult people, are perfectly aware of this. In summary, what importance does the skill level of a player have in determining whether their argument is valid or not? In a 1v1 against all or most of those present here, I would surely lose, regardless of whether they are using the mod or not. Moreover, I would probably still lose even if I were using the mod and they were not!!! Does that make proGUI (for instance) more or less of a cheat? Of course not, and it is truly simple to realize that the interlocutors' skill at playing does not determine the validity of their arguments at all. In any competitive environment, the sense of fairness is necessary. Even though there are only the same five of us here, it is evident that a competitive environment has been created. Even though we are not millions, it is not broadcast on social media, and there are no prizes, the environment is created, and therefore, the need for fairness will arise. Honestly, my greatest wish is that we can resolve certain differences that seem irreconcilable and not continue to fuel toxicity, at least among those of us who I believe have the ability to realize how harmful this is for the community and have not developed such deep obsessions as to consider there is no way back, as for example, our friend here the main character of this thread Geriatrix/1min/-DonkeyKong/Cedric_O/Physic/Shift_Sierra?. Nubs greetings to all

I dont think there is any empirical study that proves or disproves wether using pro gui gives an advantage, if it does not the question is though why do people use it. I think the reason @Stockfish is mainly critisized for using it, is that his level is very high already, so it does not seem to be necessary, also it is not always transparent for opponents if the mod is beeing used for example in rated games. For @Atrik i just always assume he is using it so thats not an issue then . But as i have said before, establish rules before the game if u haven an issue with it, then there is no reason for all this drama, although this makes reading this forum more entertaining as i have to admit

op misogynistic comment

he has lot of tricks he developed, that he won't share if it is high value, you have to spec his gameplay to steal his tricks, he could be the best TG player, maybe even better than @ValihrAnt

Frankly, also being a non-competitive player, I am somehow puzzled about the many issues that 1on1/multiplayer games seems to have due to people using different mods. If your opponent has mod that gives him a competitive edge, so what. The game is less fun, maybe, but should also be much less fun for that guy (no real contest). After all, this is not a real competition that actually matters, isn't it? We are enjoying a beatiful game for leisure. (This is also why I am personally agains any trophy money) Let us keep this game fun. There is a world out there that is deadly serious already. If you want serious competion, go out and do it in the real world. My two cents.

Please be assured that geriatrix is not Phyzic lul

I'm sure you are wrong about PhyZic (indeed the only original account) but maybe Physics is another account I can't recall.. PhyZic was fluent german but other guy not at all..

HEAR THE MASTER!! Btw It is funny the borg - geriatrix thing hahah. Btw, +75% vs felderson borg?? eaeeee

I will submit a diff for the encyclopedia page soon. And while it's getting reviewed, we will start with the process of "customizing" the articles - adding titles, subtitles, images, related articles, references to xml templates, and some formatting to the text contents itself. There is a ton to say about the features' implementation and what to pay attention to. I tried my best to lay out the information as logically as possible and I'm open to explaining it further, if anything is unclear:

Mentula did a study on whether or not progui offers an advantage here. Anyway, discussion of ProGUI is off-topic in this thread. Please keep it on topic, based on the title of the thread.

Nah, I judge everybody who uses it.

this is what I wanted to say, you wrote perfect. but the RTS purists will disagree, they want people to suffer doing the boring and hard part, proGUI can bring more people to 0AD, because this is not 1990s or 2000s people want a lot of automation everywhere, other games focus on places where people get the rush; and also perfecting economy by spending months and years will demotivate normal people from playing game.

The real problem is not PROGUI, The real problem is Geriatrix's behaviour towards other players, he accuses other of things they didn't do, and says people leave 0AD because of existing people who try to moderate and promote healthy communication between players. he even said (I don't have proof now) that @Stan` retired from his position because of 0AD players everyone has personal preference and that is the first priority when it comes to working for something that doesn't pay you anything, accusing others for someones decision not to participate and villainizing or making fun of people and/or ban them from games and wasting others time by stating delusions as facts are may be not the biggest problem but it's annoying and waste of time.

You can prove that autotrain doesn't make a difference to thoses folks, they'll still have fun making tribal comments when you'll use it (As I did repetitively too). They probably jealous you because of your level. Most don't have any understanding of the game mechanics anyway (and especially not real_tabasco) so be assured that at least, while they'll have something to blame, they'll never be even close to grasp how are you 1k elo more then them.

Wether you consider that cheat or not is not my business. Progui is a public mod that many people use. Even some of the detractors of that mod. But it is funny that the only one judged by using it is me. I dont even use the autotrain in mayority of games, you can see speccing me.

Poor women they don't have any fault for someone else's toxicity =) btw, I played some TGs with weirdJokes just 15 days ago. He beat all of our asses as usual.

I am pro

So sorry for all this random hate thrown at u @Norse_Harold

he hates me, he banned me, think I report everything in chat to Norse Harold and get his accounts banned, he think I am working for Norse Harold, In fact Geriatrix's behavior is annoying, blindly accusing people of things they don't do

This is a good watch for those familiar with the automation debate. Ok so maybe its a different game from 0ad, but many points on automation are valid across RTS games. Maybe the most important is the division of attention between fighting and economy. The controversy of this farm auto-placement puts into start contrast the motion to automize unit and technology production like in proGUI. In 0ad, we already have some things heavily automated like autoqueue. Admittedly, autoqueue is more justified in 0ad given the citizen soldier mechanics, but I heavily advocate against further automation. Some say 0ad is too hard, but I say let it be hard. Learning how to do hard things and winning for your efforts is rewarding and exciting. To improve the experience of new players, focus should instead be placed on improving the ui, ranked games, and matchmaking/finding. Obviously, we don't have any kind of matchmaking, but it is important that new players get a few games with players of roughly equal skill so they can experience more than just village phase. Excessive automation makes RTS games easier sure, but also shallow, and shallow games are not fun for long. One of the main issues with aoe4 is that where aoe2 is deep, aoe4 is shallow (homing bullets, 1-click strategies). We can make 0ad more deep by increasing the amount of player-controlled features, adding more technologies (unique and/or unit-specific), and diversifying unit stats.

Version 1 of the mod is attached to this OP below: playable_noba.zip

The Noba now have a fortress! I've decided that this will be where they train the warrior queen hero and the tame lions instead of the temple. Also, the Noba warrior queen has an upgraded form with her riding an elephant (its war paint patterns are different from the others).

Some numbers from experimental data I made an experiment to quantify the advantage provided by the proGUI trainer to economy. Technical details below. It turns out that -within the context of the settings below- I could reach the population cap 24 seconds earlier with proGUI (on average). On top of that, I could gather additional 1.14K resources with proGUI (on average). Experiment details (conditions, fairness, biases) Conclusion Results from experiments under comparable conditions show that -in my case- the economy of games with the proGUI trainer enabled is boosted by a non-negligible factor. The fact that both the population and the amount of collected resources are better with proGUI can be decisive in a game. I foresee objections of having forgot this and that. Please remember that 1. this is just data, anybody can produce more data to fit different settings 2. 0 A.D. is a game based on public information: other measurements -even on other players- can be taken and shared. Whether we use a particular mod or not, the information we share as a community, via replays, is public and visible. In other words, a player who does not use proGUI have the same means to evaluate the impact of proGUI on other players [with a rough comparison: one does not have to be alcoholic to measure the effect of alcohol on others]. So any data or thought from any user is welcome and shall not be minimized, regardless of the mods they use. I will put a link to this post in the first post of this thread for future reference. 10_replays_Mentula_20_06_2023.zip

I wonder who started to mention progui in a off topic AGAIN. The same guy who come spec games, (but rarely plays any), yet every f*** time in the chat, start talking about progui. No idea why he did make it a so important mission for himself to make sure that anybody who haven't heard about this mod is exposed to his comments on it first. As he even admitted it to me. Just on the forum I can't count threads where he comes in a totally unrelated threads like this one and start making a comment containing always the two words : progui and cheat. Even if nobody takes the bait, he'll try again a few comments later.... O.P.