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Can it? Yes: There are plenty of other ancient warfare themed RTS games where melee units are a viable DPS source. There is nothing particularly exotic about 0 AD's pathfinding, or combat model, or unit conventions that would seem to prevent it reaching a similar balance point. Will it? Maybe: For the entire time I have been watching this project develop (which is going on 5 or 6 years now) its design has never strayed from one rigid network of established unit roles and interactions. In order to introduce melee that is useful as more than just a meat shield, without simultaneously rendering ranged units entirely redundant, the developers are going to have to throw out that established counter network and replace it with something new. If the wider community rebels the moment such a thing is even suggested then it will never happen. Should it? Yes: For the sake of both historical authenticity and playstyle diversity, it really must. As the game currently exists, it is the ranged units that make up the survivable core of any infantry attack force. Melee infantry act as an expendable auxiliary contingent that exists to boost the combat efficiency of the core until it is killed off. I don't want to go too far and say that no ancient militaries worked this way, but it is certainly not how the ancient Greeks, Romans, Carthaginians, or Macedonian successor states operated. For them it was the (mostly but not always entirely melee) heavy infantry that made up the survivable core of their armies. Light, usually ranged infantry were the ones deployed as the expendable support auxiliaries, and together with cavalry they usually represented only a small faction of an army's total fighting numbers. The status quo is a huge misrepresentation of these cultures' normal tactics. Additionally, such tight synergy between ranged and melee is very limiting to a player's creativity and to the operational diversity of different civilizations the game can feature. The game may have civs that claim to specialize in heavy infantry, but they are still locked into the same composition as any other civ. No one is going to boom into melee infantry only, or skip basic ranged infantry upgrades in favor of more melee upgrades, and the game is poorer for not having these options. This is not to say either that the meat shield meta should be removed entirely. It would be interesting if there were actually a few civs where ranged still forms the survivable core of the army, but for the majority not permitting melee heavy infantry to stand on their own is limiting and profoundly anachronistic.

(templates/template_player.xml and templates/special/players/*.xml in SVN.)

Just a question really.

I dislike this approach. If a faction lacks diversity, just jumping to the solution of giving them slingers makes factions more like each other rather than making those faction truly unique. Spartans have the Skiritai and Spartiates, yet those units don´t stand out as the units that make Sparta unique.

My itinerary: 1. Actor improvements (almost done). 2. Mockup some win/defeat graphics. 3. Come up with a super patch that overhauls unit roles. 4. Watch as #3 is endlessly debated and picked apart.

Hi everyone just came to say hi, and to share some Pictures of the Empires At war Rise of Rome 0AD Scenario that I have been working on for almost a year... Just have some talks with Lopess, a Brazilian moder, I meet at this forum. to join forces and make this scenario a Solid 0 AD Game scenario for all you guys to enjoy and play, or modified as you like, with the Roman Republic as the main protagonist, and it's chronological history of conquest and expansion across the whole Mediterranean Sea and Central Europe. Here, I'm sharing some pictures with some remarks, so you all can get an Idea of how it is coming so far. Share your ideas and opinions, all criticism, good or bad are welcome, specially suggestions...and thanks for sharing. Remarks are in Spanish, so to those That don't speak Spanish, I'm sorry guys... But that is the language I used to communicate with Lopess who speak Portuguese, too...and I send pictures to him first and now I'm sharing them here...but you guys get the idea... Peace and prosperity be with you all. Thanks for sharing, guys.

For the timeframe i think Syracusan slingers would be a better option; they were used by Rome in the Punic and Macedonian Wars. Or the Numidian slingers and archers from the siege of Numantia. Some Italic peoples like Ligurians and Picenes used slings; but i am not sure if they fought in the Roman army at the time.

Nice work on the wiki to everyone who contributed, very helpful ^^

If you need help with porting to A26, feel free to come by on IRC. (And read https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/PortA25ToA26.)

I personally like the way it is tbh. Capturing can be- and often is- done faster then just bashing your melee weapon against a building. Which means you need to have a little more awareness and have some troops ready to garrison your important buildings. But the capture and instant delete mechanic is pretty awful. There at least needs to be a timer before the user can delete the building after capturing e.g. 1 minute.

Archers of course

Although historically these eastern armies were very " anoying" to fight, and in game these factions would be doubly so, not to mention that they would be a one trick poney, see AOE 3 DE Lakota Confederation.

Agreed, there were cavalry formations which were combat efficient. What I want to emphasize is: most ancient armies did not operate cavalry alone to conclude engagements. They needed infantry, boots on the ground, or maybe sandals on the ground in some cases . I think the game can reflect that in such a way that most factions cannot pull it out with cavalry alone unless the enemy has a bad army composition or makes a tactical mistake.

Could be linked to stances?

3.1.6 update Added statistics for ammo and energy when multiple units are selected. Contributed by @beryll1um on github. Updated original post download links (and once approved on mod.io).

There is one thing they do which melee units cannot do: you cannot commit all melee units to battle at the same time because melee units need to almost be next to units, their availability for fighting is restricted to the battle line, so they spend more time manuevering. Ranged units may be commited in much higher numbers simultaneously if positioned well. They do not have to move until threatened directly or there is nothing left to shoot. This gives them and also their counters different roles than pure melee infantry.

Interesting that rush is seen as a solution to turtling. (https://defendmewhileiboom.blogspot.com/2010/03/three-basic-strategies-in-rts.html)

You use ranged units for their range. They can deal damage while not taking any damage, while melee units can't do that. Honestly, if players only use ranged units in specific situations or as a small contingent to back up their melee troops, then I am okay with that since that's how they were used in antiquity anyway.

heres the discussion: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/66440-attack-ground-include-in-a26-or-not/

Carthage/Kushite mercs all-in in current alpha solve turtling. Also, mass spear cav if sufficient hunt vs civs like Iberians and Romans (neither of which have spear infantry in p1) can be devastating for enemy. Even more so with a Carthage merc cav rush. Basically, p1/2 rushing anyone who turtles or is known to turtle. If someone is known to turtle they are generally very vulnerable p1-p2 if you go "all in" on a rush which can become a way to permanently disable a enemy.

Hi everyone new bugfix release of HC has just happened check out https://www.moddb.com/mods/hyrule-conquest/downloads and download HC node bases plus patch 0.12.1 Have a nice day.

This will likely include adding some new units. For example, a Helot Slinger for Sparta. Some kind of slinger for the Romans (probably a merc Balearic Slinger). Moving around availability. Also, hard counter attack bonuses and penalties. Basically ignoring all of the current stats and roles in an effort to start fresh.

The only civ that is truly helpless against camel rush is the Ptolemies, because their only way to counter camels is making more camels. Javlin cavalry can chase camels and kill them Spear cavalry can kill camels even when outnumbered Archer civs will outnumber camels with infantry so they are also not vulnerable

Yeah in templates > special > player.xml

These class restrictions are defined in template_player.xml, I believe (I currently don't have access to my laptop).

I suggest a badge given by user1 for people leaving ranked games lol