Introducing the Official community mod for 0 A.D. Empires Ascendant

[chrstgtr]

31 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

It wasn't a fix per se, but a desired feature. People wonder why the heck the arrows don't shoot at the unit they tell them to shoot at.

That is a separate issue. I don't think anyone has an issue with being able to override buidlingAI. But there is a lot of debate around whether buildingAI should shoot randomly or at the closest unit. It isn't clear what the preference of the community is, and if the "closet unit" system can even be balanced in a desirable way. 

But buildingAI was certainly changed to address a units "don't die" problem. I personally don't think that was ever really a problem. But now we might as well see if this other system is better/workable. 

In short, everyone should vote in the poll in the other thread once they develop a firm opinion. There is no clear right answer--people have different preferences for legitimate reasons. The community at large should decide. 

EDIT: Sorry, I didn't all the way down to the bottom of your comment where you said random buildingAI with player override was a good compromise. It could be. I think player override should exist. The buildingAI should be community determined. 

Edited February 14, 2024 by chrstgtr

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Yep, player override would be best. I think consensus will build (is building) around that.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

perhaps. We will have to see.

I would have a couple of concerns with letting the default arrows be random. I think a lot of people might not realize these consequences:

First, if non-random arrows are stronger as deemed by many players, then it could be seen as beneficial to be constantly targeting single units with buildings, which would be a pretty sub-optimal scenario. In addition, we might have to balance buildings both in their capacity to target random units (how they are currently balanced) and in their capacity to target single units (what makes them strong in 26.6).

My last point is more on appearance: I don't like the idea of completely changing the way the arrows function upon a click. It just would look and feel clunky and possibly counterintuitive. (Opinion if you can't tell :D)

I am certain that the issues a lot of people have with defaulting to the closest unit are really just balance concerns and can be addressed by modifying building arrow count (default and max arrows) and damage. However, if everyone agrees that what @wowgetoffyourcellphone suggests is the best way forward, I would begrudgingly concede.

Edited February 15, 2024 by real_tabasco_sauce

[real_tabasco_sauce]

3 hours ago, alre said:

keep bulding arrows random is my two cents. you fixed something that wasn't broken.

I never advertised it as a fix. non-random arrows were not broken, just a little lame compared to how they work in other RTS games.

[chrstgtr]

2 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

perhaps. We will have to see.

I think the wait and see approach is the way to go--opinions are still forming.

With the melee patch, it is clear the community wants something different than community.mod.v4. It's not clear the community wants something like community.mod.v6, though. 

With the buildingAI patch, it isn't clear if the community wants any change from community.mod.v4. 

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

I never advertised it as a fix. non-random arrows were not broken, just a little lame compared to how they work in other RTS games.

Exactly is lame compared with standard RTS. You are right.

 

I don't know why people complain every time we change something that's wrong in the game design.

People sometimes have to think that the game is not finished and that the mechanics are not that we are changing for the sake of doing so.

 

We are changing because we are following the criteria that other games have.

[Nobbi]

15 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

I get that part, but are you saying cavalry archers/ camel archers are too strong now?

No, I am not saying they are too strong now. I am saying, when you lower range of towers or other buildings below 60 range, CAV archers might become OP.

[MarcusAureliu#s]

On 13/02/2024 at 7:13 PM, leopard said:

look how much time it takes to micro away from the pikeman and my cav died anyway, in 0AD time play a big factor. I feel pikemen is buffed too much. and even after hitting too many javelins pikeman is barely touched. watch the second video.

pikeman is reasonably strong but still getting hit by javelins and eventually dies I had to micro hard though and wasted lot of time killing one pikeman.

I think that is just how the game is supposed to be like ? If the pike/spear unit doesnt kill the jav cav players just spam cav jav and u are gg and have no option how to react ? Every intresting rts that shall not be just about spamming a signle unit, that has strategic depth and allows putting some thought into army composition to have any impact should have at least  soft counter system ! If the pikes bother u just make  units such as spear inf, sword inf, inf jav, archer cav that should all do decent vs pikes ! So i think there really isnt any problem.

 

[MarcusAureliu#s]

On 15/02/2024 at 11:46 AM, Nobbi said:

No, I am not saying they are too strong now. I am saying, when you lower range of towers or other buildings below 60 range, CAV archers might become OP.

They can always be countered by melee or jav cav, as long as the unit itself is not too op. But i agree nevertheless, towers already dont do very much damage and need quite some time to make any impact. It would be strange if archer cav could just ignore them bc out of range.

[Acanthis]

So far the game is more fun from my perspective. It is refreshing after a few years.

About buildings: yes, they are quite strong now. Is it possible to retain the "fire at closest unit" but increase the spread of the arrows a little bit? Something like an area effect fire rather than focus fire? I get the frustration if turtling becomes too strong, yet we've been playing the game for years in a situation where the first time you build anything more than a couple towers and a fort you get accused of turtling and being afk.

Fortifications should be formidable. Not impossible to overcome, but strong enough to make the enemy actually consider other routes of attack.

Personally am happy to see that cav aren't the end all be all. Was getting a little bit old seeing how many players would focus almost entirely on jav cav. I want to see more of each civ's roster at play, leaning towards mostly infantry.

And if ranked up infantry are considered too strong and Iphicrates finally moves from his "in formation only bonus" to a reduced bonus, but an aura like virtually every other hero in the game, good.

[guerringuerrin]

Hey, what do you think of something like this to show community-mod changes in-game? Not the best place to have them since it's the credits section but at least they are reachable in-game. I think  it would be better to add them in a subsection inside Options like other mods has. I still figuring out how to do that without adding too much code.
I probably missed some important changes or wrote down them wrong. Feel free to improve this. Although this is only a proposal

 

Edited February 17, 2024 by guerringuerrin

[Lion.Kanzen]

8 minutes ago, guerringuerrin said:

Hey, what do you think of something like this to show community-mod changes in-game? Not the best place to have them since it's the credits section but at least they are reachable in-game. I think  it would be better to add them in a subsection inside Options like other mods has. I still figuring out how to do that without adding too much code.
I probably missed some important changes or wrote down them wrong. Feel free to improve this. Although this is only a proposal

That design looks good but a section like that would have to be designed for the mods.

"About the mod" maybe.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

@guerringuerrin this is the gitlab page for the community mod. https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/tree/main/community-mod?ref_type=heads Feel free to make your own fork and submit a merge request.

However, I think the scope of the community mod is really just to modify gameplay aspects. This is why all the simulation files are there, but the gui section is basically empty.

That being said, I think it is fine to have a tidy patch notes section, especially since the mod is to be a long term project. If you can submit a merge request, I could edit the contents when the next release comes out.

[guerringuerrin]

Thanks for your suggestions. I still thinking Options section would be a better place for this. It's a section more suited than credits although still not an "About the mod" which would be more proper for this but would require more work. So I think I will try to add a button on options for this changelog before making any fork on gitlab repo.

Edited February 17, 2024 by guerringuerrin

[guerringuerrin]

 

Alright, I think I ended up finding a pretty interesting middle ground solution. As you can see I added a new button inside Settings menu (instead of using the Options window) which opens a separate window with the changelog, a Close button and a Link button which opens the GItlab Repo as the images shows.

What do you think of this?

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

4 minutes ago, guerringuerrin said:

 

Alright, I think I ended up finding a pretty interesting middle ground solution. As you can see I added a new button inside Settings menu (instead of using the Options window) which opens a separate window with the changelog, a Close button and a Link button which opens the GItlab Repo as the images shows.

What do you think of this?

 

It's very good but "community-mod's changelog" is very long.

 

The changelog window should be longer for better readability.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Looks great @guerringuerrin, my only concern would be mod compatibility. Could you just test with a few mods to see if there are any issues. I am not sure if any other mods that make use of that panel.

[guerringuerrin]

4 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Looks great @guerringuerrin, my only concern would be mod compatibility. Could you just test with a few mods to see if there are any issues. I am not sure if any other mods that make use of that panel.

Ofc, @real_tabasco_sauce. I'm testing right now with boonGUI, autociv, community-maps, feldfeld and mainland twilight.  and I will load shiny mod after I finish this game which I think could show errors as it's modify greatly the main screen GUI 

[guerringuerrin]

Alright. Shiny mod gets the changelog button disappear but doesnt get any errors. I think this is more related to how shiny mod modified the GUI rather than some issue with this new community-mod modification. I can try figure out why.
I would be glad to tweak the text of changelog to be accurate with the changes that have been made
Right  now, this is the complete text of changelog
 

Community-mod changelog

#Version 6 (Jan 28, 2024)

#Infantry

-Melee units damage increased by +50%, decreased armor
-Ranged units damage decreased -25%
-Melee infantry  base movement speed slighty increased (9.5 ms)
-Clubmen get a small hack attack
-Buildings and siege adjusted for higher hack damage

#Buildings AI attack behavior

-Buildings targets closest units by default
-Target unit using Right Click
-Rally point on unit using Ctrl Click
-Accuracy for cc and forts reduced.

#Han fixes
-Poison arrows tech cost changed to 1200 food 1200 metal
-Fields easier to place
-Elephants get a splash attack

#Mauryans Heroes
-Chanakya slightly lower discount. Doesn't need to garrison for tech discount
-Chandragupta global elephants bonus for speed and attack rate, local armor bonus for all soldiers
-Elephants get a splash attack

#Catapults
Smaller range
Gain a splash attack

[alre]

time ago, I suggested that a massage would pop up every time someone with an outdated community mod joined the lobby. can you do that?

the latest version to the mod could be retrieved with a web request.

[hyperion]

2 hours ago, alre said:

time ago, I suggested that a massage would pop up every time someone with an outdated community mod joined the lobby. can you do that?

the latest version to the mod could be retrieved with a web request.

A generic "check for updates" mechanism would make a lot more sense. Then it works for single player as well as any other mod on mod.io.

Mod.io offers the API required, so the only thing really preventing it is finding someone sitting down and implementing it.

[alre]

1 hour ago, hyperion said:

A generic "check for updates" mechanism would make a lot more sense. Then it works for single player as well as any other mod on mod.io.

Mod.io offers the API required, so the only thing really preventing it is finding someone sitting down and implementing it.

acyually, I was thinking about something focused on the community mod because it could be merged to a27 and then the community mod would become the standard for pvp games.

[guerringuerrin]

1 hour ago, hyperion said:

A generic "check for updates" mechanism would make a lot more sense. Then it works for single player as well as any other mod on mod.io.

Mod.io offers the API required, so the only thing really preventing it is finding someone sitting down and implementing it.

Really interesting. I'm just a newbie coding, but I'd be interested to take a look at that API.

[hyperion]

8 minutes ago, guerringuerrin said:

Really interesting. I'm just a newbie coding, but I'd be interested to take a look at that API.

https://docs.mod.io

 

[Grautvornix]

But.. there is another mod that adds something similar - it is called "modiomod". It shows which mods of the ones you already have were updated on mod.io. Would love to have this function embedded into the main game! 

See also discussion here: