Introducing the Official community mod for 0 A.D. Empires Ascendant

[Fabius]

2 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

I called it "fertile crescent"

It should help with seles need for food, in particular for eles and cavalry, two Seleucid strengths.

Fertile Crescent sounds good

[Fabius]

59 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

also, I added a merge request for unit specific upgrades, after I finally found an image for the last upgrade.

https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests/25/diffs

take a look, this could be a large content drop for the community mod.

That is quite the impressive list, I like the swordsmen techs especially.

[alre]

25 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

wait, is it 90 percent for each farmer, or only for the added farmer?

In any case, it could be removed or changed to .95 if it is too OP for seles.

I believe it's the added one. (otherwise that bounus becomes crazy, like +52.4%)

I think it's more understandable if it's just a building bonus. no matter if it doesn't affect late game.

[hyperion]

The only sensible thing is to remove the diminishing returns for all civs, @maroder had such a plan, a hidden bonus to a hidden feature doesn't make sense at all. Just because a parameter exits doesn't mean it has to be tweaked. Increase gather rate for a civ if you want a farming bonus.

[alre]

1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

also, I added a merge request for unit specific upgrades, after I finally found an image for the last upgrade.

https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests/25/diffs

take a look, this could be a large content drop for the community mod.

battle axes are actually lighter than normal axes, quicker to handle and sharper, because of how flesh is different than wood.

[maroder]

5 minutes ago, hyperion said:

The only sensible thing is to remove the diminishing returns for all civs, @maroder had such a plan

yes, I'm not a fan of it. For reference:

But at least in that poll it seems like other people enjoy it.

[chrstgtr]

2 minutes ago, hyperion said:

The only sensible thing is to remove the diminishing returns for all civs, @maroder had such a plan, a hidden bonus to a hidden feature doesn't make sense at all. Just because a parameter exits doesn't mean it has to be tweaked. Increase gather rate for a civ if you want a farming bonus.

I tend to agree. I don’t like hidden features. Diminishing marginal returns is disclosed, but it’s magnitude is not. So the true impact of this bonus isn’t obvious (hence the above discussion). @hyperion’s suggestion makes the game more comprehendible and can easily be adjusted to do @real_tabasco_sauce‘s civ bonus. 
 

On this, I would also eliminate the diminishing marginal return for buildings, which is entirely hidden (I think). 

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

About the "either or" discussion for seleucid civ bonus, I think the farm cost and build time reduction will have more gameplay impact than the elimination of diminishing returns per farmer for seles. The diminishing returns per farmer I think would get treated as a simple food rate bonus and would not as visible or actionable in-game.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

ok, I'll remove the diminishing returns part, since this is an obscure game mechanic that might be removed anyway.

I think the building and resource cost is good on its own.

Also, an update on centurions:

Spoiler

Rank 3 swordsmen may be upgraded to centurions which are strong champions with an aura: +10% damage and -25% promotion experience.

3 things remain, however:

1. I need to add a limit to them (8 maybe).

2. give them a cost to upgrade.

3. ensure that the auras do not stack.

Edited December 5, 2022 by real_tabasco_sauce

[chrstgtr]

19 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

ok, I'll remove the diminishing returns part, since this is an obscure game mechanic that might be removed anyway.

 

I like that. I think @BreakfastBurrito_007 made a great point about how the diminishing marginal returns is not actionable--it really just makes Sele easier. In that case, I think you can give an even bigger cost and/or build time decrease to make it "more" actionable and relevant.  Deceased cost/build time could open up some different build orders (i.e., people would be less likely to chase berries). 

Edited December 5, 2022 by chrstgtr

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

6 minutes ago, chrstgtr said:

I like that. I think @BreakfastBurrito_007 made a great point about how the diminishing marginal returns is not actionable--it really just makes Sele easier. In that case, I think you can give an even bigger cost and/or build time decrease to make it "more" actionable and relevant.  Deceased cost/build time could open up some different build orders (i.e., people would be less likely to chase berries). 

to be honest decreasing the cost and build time also would give seles an advantage when it comes to diminishing farmer returns because it would be easier for them to build extra farms to spread out workers to 3/5 per farm or so. Perhaps the diminishing returns is something more players should consider even with the current game, at least I have never intentionally spread out my farmers.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Also, I just made an icon for the Nisean war horses upgrade so that the "chamfron" upgrade can use the chamfron.png icon.

@wowgetoffyourcellphone 

now all the icons are taken care of.

 

[chrstgtr]

51 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

to be honest decreasing the cost and build time also would give seles an advantage when it comes to diminishing farmer returns because it would be easier for them to build extra farms to spread out workers to 3/5 per farm or so. Perhaps the diminishing returns is something more players should consider even with the current game, at least I have never intentionally spread out my farmers.

Sure but that’s more attenuated. Field costs changes build order more. For example, I would be a lot less likely to expand my territory with buildings to get extra berries if I know I can save 100 wood (farm stand cost) and not have to walk all the way to the edge of my territory if I have free fields. 

[alre]

1 hour ago, hyperion said:

The only sensible thing is to remove the diminishing returns for all civs, @maroder had such a plan, a hidden bonus to a hidden feature doesn't make sense at all. Just because a parameter exits doesn't mean it has to be tweaked. Increase gather rate for a civ if you want a farming bonus.

I think this is also true for acceleration, which could also possibly go away. I don't like the idea of having technologies, by their own description, "increase spead and acceleration". Just say it gets faster.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Also, I just made an icon for the Nisean war horses upgrade so that the "chamfron" upgrade can use the chamfron.png icon.

@wowgetoffyourcellphone 

now all the icons are taken care of.

 

This was a good idea for a tech icon. https://trac.wildfiregames.com/changeset/27274

Edited December 6, 2022 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[real_tabasco_sauce]

@wowgetoffyourcellphone thanks for adding these icons to the development version. Should I change the names of the .png files currently used in the branch to the ones you renamed in the source files? I am worried that the discrepancy could be very confusing if/when the mod should be incorporated into the main game.

[Philip the Swaggerless]

I made some tweaks to the Alexander changes I mentioned on page 25. https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/83784-introducing-the-official-community-mod-for-alpha-26/?do=findComment&comment=533216

Here is the current summary:

• Removed "Imperialism" Structures +10% Territory influence Aura
• Added "Rapid Conquest" Aura: Radius 60 Meters, Own Soldiers Attack Damage +10% Movement Speed + 15%.
• Added "Undefeated" Aura: Radius 30 Meters, Enemy Soldiers, Structures Attack Damage -10%.
  • Since attack de-buffs are strong, especially in team situations, I reduced the radius to the same range as the Roman Cavalry Hero Marcus Claudius.  Actually receiving this benefit requires taking some risk for the Hero as he will be in range of enemy attackers.
• Retained Conqueror Aura: Radius 60 Meters, Enemy Civic Centers -50% Capture Point Regeneration Rate

The merge request can be found here:

https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests/26  (Thanks @real_tabasco_sauce!)

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Centurions added as a merge request:

https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests/27/diffs

rank 3 (elite) swordsmen may be upgraded to centurions via a salary of 100food and 50 metal each. There is a concurrent limit of 8.

They take 12 seconds to upgrade and upon upgrading they take the form of a sword champion with an aura of 30 meters. The aura is a 10% damage buff as well as a -25% promotion experience effect on CS.

They will be the strongest sword champion in the game with 14 hack compared to 11.

They are also very cool!

Edited December 6, 2022 by real_tabasco_sauce

[chrstgtr]

3 hours ago, Philip the Swaggerless said:

• Removed "Imperialism" Structures +10% Territory influence Aura

3 hours ago, Philip the Swaggerless said:

• Retained Conqueror Aura: Radius 60 Meters, Enemy Civic Centers -50% Capture Point Regeneration Rate

 

I think it would be cool if this was replaced with a roaming territory influence aura. This would encourage players to make really aggressive attacks into enemy territory because after a certain amount of time the attacker could gain control of barracks and other buildings. 

I really like the rest of your proposal (it also really bugged me that the greatest(?) conqueror of all time was a pretty unhelpful hero)

Edited December 6, 2022 by chrstgtr

[chrstgtr]

1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

They take 12 seconds to upgrade and upon upgrading they take the form of a sword champion with an aura of 30 meters. The aura is a 10% damage buff as well as a -25% promotion experience effect on CS.

I like this a lot. Only concern here would be computing concerns--I believe similar features have caused lag concerns in the past. 

1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

They will be the strongest sword champion in the game with 14 hack compared to 11.

I'm generally not a fan of making the "same" units have different stats because it makes the game harder to learn. Perhaps the aura means this isn't the same unit, though. 

Also, query whether this is necessary given the aura above. 

1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

rank 3 (elite) swordsmen may be upgraded 

This feels quite restrictive--melee units are already very hard to promote up to rank 3 and melee units often die shortly after reaching rank 3. I would consider removing in order to make this a more used unit. 

-----

Overall, this seems nice

[Fabius]

2 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Centurions added as a merge request:

https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests/27/diffs

rank 3 (elite) swordsmen may be upgraded to centurions via a salary of 100food and 50 metal each. There is a concurrent limit of 8.

They take 12 seconds to upgrade and upon upgrading they take the form of a sword champion with an aura of 30 meters. The aura is a 10% damage buff as well as a -25% promotion experience effect on CS.

They will be the strongest sword champion in the game with 14 hack compared to 11.

They are also very cool!

I think the Aura should be restricted to melee infantry and champions and not include ranged Infantry as I don't think centurions were leading velites persay. But I could be wrong in that regard. 

[Fabius]

1 hour ago, chrstgtr said:

This feels quite restrictive--melee units are already very hard to promote up to rank 3 and melee units often die shortly after reaching rank 3. I would consider removing in order to make this a more used unit

4 minutes in the barracks gets you rank 3 on a hastati, but thats not overly ideal for games that often run quite short. I would prefer just a straight limited recruitment from the barracks or some other place like an army camp.

[Fabius]

1 hour ago, chrstgtr said:

I'm generally not a fan of making the "same" units have different stats because it makes the game harder to learn. Perhaps the aura means this isn't the same unit, though. 

Also, query whether this is necessary given the aura above.

Centurions are supposed to be highly proficient individuals so combat proficiency in excess of a champion is a good bar to set I would say.

[chrstgtr]

2 minutes ago, Fabius said:

4 minutes in the barracks gets you rank 3 on a hastati, but thats not overly ideal for games that often run quite short. I would prefer just a straight limited recruitment from the barracks or some other place like an army camp.

Yeah, I know, but that's a really long time. It limits your ability to fight and it causes a drag on your eco. (related note, I think this experience via garrisioning features needs a buff). 

[Fabius]

2 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Centurions added as a merge request:

https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests/27/diffs

rank 3 (elite) swordsmen may be upgraded to centurions via a salary of 100food and 50 metal each. There is a concurrent limit of 8.

They take 12 seconds to upgrade and upon upgrading they take the form of a sword champion with an aura of 30 meters. The aura is a 10% damage buff as well as a -25% promotion experience effect on CS.

They will be the strongest sword champion in the game with 14 hack compared to 11.

They are also very cool!

what do you have as the general stats for health and armour? there does not seem to be a mention in the merge request