Introducing the Official community mod for 0 A.D. Empires Ascendant

[Fabius]

1 hour ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

well centurions in part accomplish this only for rome, since you would want to retreat elite soldiers to heal some and to complete their 12 second upgrade to centurions. Once you have a centurion, the whole army (30m aura) is oriented towards ranking and promotion.

What unit model are you using for the centurion? Wowgetofyourcellphone has some very nice republic centurion models, we could ask if we can use them for this project  

[Fabius]

1 hour ago, alre said:

it would be nice if roman hastati were more survivable and oriented to ranking. if you think about roman doctrine of war, a lot of it revolved around keeping their men alive. contrary to most of their relatives, ordered retreat was pretty important to romans.

I believe there are two swordsmen technologies included in the merge requests that increase the durability of swordsmen for Rome among others, so that has already been partly covered I think  

[real_tabasco_sauce]

4 minutes ago, Fabius said:

What unit model are you using for the centurion? Wowgetofyourcellphone has some very nice republic centurion models, we could ask if we can use them for this project  

sorry its a bad screenshot, but these fellas right here:

[Fabius]

1 minute ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

sorry its a bad screenshot, but these fellas right here:

Ok, are those from the scenario editor?

[real_tabasco_sauce]

2 minutes ago, Fabius said:

Ok, are those from the scenario editor?

yeah they are probably already in there.

"infantry_swordsman_c4"

Edited December 6, 2022 by real_tabasco_sauce

[Fabius]

5 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

yeah they are probably already in there.

there are two models it seems, both look nice, but the helmets are completely wrong for the time frame

[Fabius]

9 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

yeah they are probably already in there.

"infantry_swordsman_c4"

well until we have something better we just keep using it  

[real_tabasco_sauce]

really? https://www.google.com/search?q=marian+centurion&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwi5tL-n9-X7AhUyNH0KHQqaAogQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=marian+centurion&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoECCMQJzoECAAQQzoFCAAQgAQ6BggAEAcQHjoICAAQCBAHEB5QjwlYixBgqhJoAHAAeACAAWiIAZEEkgEDNy4xmAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=g7OPY_nmOLLo9AOKtIrACA&bih=658&biw=1417#imgrc=Uu-MiRVtrDZmPM

I thought the Marian centurions were perfect for the timeframe. These ones resemble them the best I thought.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

18 minutes ago, Fabius said:

I believe there are two swordsmen technologies included in the merge requests that increase the durability of swordsmen for Rome among others, so that has already been partly covered I think  

yes, rome gets both unit upgrades for swordsmen, the second of which increases their durability some.

[Fabius]

6 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

really? https://www.google.com/search?q=marian+centurion&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwi5tL-n9-X7AhUyNH0KHQqaAogQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=marian+centurion&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoECCMQJzoECAAQQzoFCAAQgAQ6BggAEAcQHjoICAAQCBAHEB5QjwlYixBgqhJoAHAAeACAAWiIAZEEkgEDNy4xmAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=g7OPY_nmOLLo9AOKtIrACA&bih=658&biw=1417#imgrc=Uu-MiRVtrDZmPM

I thought the Marian centurions were perfect for the timeframe. These ones resemble them the best I thought.

The marian legionaries were still using Coolus style helmets and the montefortino style helmets, they haven't adopted the traditional Gallic helmet that we all associate with Imperial Romans yet. 

[Fabius]

18 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

really? https://www.google.com/search?q=marian+centurion&tbm=isch&ved=2ahUKEwi5tL-n9-X7AhUyNH0KHQqaAogQ2-cCegQIABAA&oq=marian+centurion&gs_lcp=CgNpbWcQAzoECCMQJzoECAAQQzoFCAAQgAQ6BggAEAcQHjoICAAQCBAHEB5QjwlYixBgqhJoAHAAeACAAWiIAZEEkgEDNy4xmAEAoAEBqgELZ3dzLXdpei1pbWfAAQE&sclient=img&ei=g7OPY_nmOLLo9AOKtIrACA&bih=658&biw=1417#imgrc=Uu-MiRVtrDZmPM

I thought the Marian centurions were perfect for the timeframe. These ones resemble them the best I thought.

If you look at the model up close in the editor you can see that the fellow is wearing the classic Imperial Gallic helmet

[real_tabasco_sauce]

ok @Stan` all of mine are ready for voting, idk about @Philip the Swaggerless's MR, but it looks good to me.

[Philip the Swaggerless]

Yes, mine is ready for voting @Stan`

[Stan`]

Updated @Philip the Swaggerless @real_tabasco_sauce

[chrstgtr]

21 minutes ago, Stan` said:

Updated @Philip the Swaggerless @real_tabasco_sauce

I don't see a voting option. Maybe it is because I already voted? Maybe reset the poll so people can revote on the new stuff. 

[Stan`]

@chrstgtr does it work now?

[chrstgtr]

7 minutes ago, Stan` said:

@chrstgtr does it work now?

yes

[real_tabasco_sauce]

I guess this was mentioned when we first voted, but I'll say it again:

We should keep in mind that we are voting to add experimental features to a mod, not patches to the main game. In other words, I don't see an issue with erring on the side of adding content.

Edited December 7, 2022 by real_tabasco_sauce

[real_tabasco_sauce]

25 minutes ago, Dakara said:

3) i don't understand 100%  and i don't like have a lot of little tech

it's not all 23 in one civ.

each civ only gets somewhere from 4 to 8 of them.

so for macedonians, they get upgrades for pikes, skirms, and 1 for crossbowmen.

Edited December 8, 2022 by real_tabasco_sauce

[real_tabasco_sauce]

29 minutes ago, Dakara said:

5) if we nerf hp don't need speed.. it the main interest, i fear noboby will play cav if we add nerf to orther nerf.

in that case, I think we just chose whichever gets more votes than the other. I would also say both might be overkill.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

The game has very few structure/building/construction/defensive techs and bonuses (but mainly techs). Consider those.

[chrstgtr]

37 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

in that case, I think we just chose whichever gets more votes than the other. I would also say both might be overkill.

I think you need to split the health proposal. It has too much going on. For example, I don't want to nerf skirm cav health, but I do want to nerf melee champ cav. 

19 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

The game has very few structure/building/construction/defensive techs and bonuses (but mainly techs). Consider those.

There's a decent number but no one uses the ones that exist. But, yes, it is an area of potential--we just haven't seen anything for it that widely appeals

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

By far the most iffy changes are the blanket cav hp/speed decreases. There is certainly no one size fits all cavalry nerf, we can't even agree on one change to one unit: for example spearcav +1/2 pierce armor or javelin cavalry -2 pierce attack.

Unit specific upgrades are exciting though, and offer their own balancing opportunities.

Edited December 8, 2022 by BreakfastBurrito_007

[real_tabasco_sauce]

On 27/10/2022 at 4:31 PM, chrstgtr said:

My main problem with cav is that they don't die even when they should (i.e. running straight through inf and fighting spears head on). I think that is a direct result of their speed (ability to escape fights and to get to fights quickly) and their health (they might get hit once when running through a pocket of men but then keep running so the damage doesn't do enough to kill them). As a result, I don't mind that cav do extra dmg. 

Making inf, specifically spears faster, would be a step in the right direction. (I think spears and swords should be faster anyways bc of their lack of range). 

I would rather change health than armor because that ensures an even change across all units as opposed to just hack or pierce units. Otherwise, a -1 nerf to both hack and pierce might result in one type of attack becoming relatively stronger. Also promotions make extra HP a snowball problem. 

@chrstgtr you seem to go back and forth on your opinions here. How about we stick with the merge request as is, and revert certain things later?

If things turn out well, fine. If not, we can revert certain items.

Edited December 8, 2022 by real_tabasco_sauce

[chrstgtr]

31 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

@chrstgtr you seem to go back and forth on your opinions here. How about we stick with the merge request as is, and revert certain things later?

No, these are just the spelled out things. I would nerf all melee cav health. I don't have a big problem with jav cav health. Champ melee cav is a huge problem. 

I think speed is an issue, which is the way I would try to nerf jav and archer cav. 

I'm just trying to tell you how I think you could get wider acceptance on the cav issue, which is I think you could get a consensus on certain cav needing to be nerfed, but the current package as a whole is too divisive to gain large acceptance. 

Edited December 8, 2022 by chrstgtr