Addition of Han Chinese to 0AD

[Stan`]

14 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I'm not saying they need remodeled. I'm just saying there are examples of bixies used in art and jewelry from the 2 Han periods.  

Yeah I originally started with that exact photo... Then well, you know...stuff

[Nescio]

9 hours ago, Lopess said:

As I understand it, the Han did not use stones in their architecture. So would a modification of the main texture to a mud clay work?

Clay? No, rammed earth is a fundamentally different technique than mud brick or adobe. I vaguely recall discussing that in the other thread.

9 hours ago, Lopess said:

A positive point is that the existing structures can be added to the Millennium A.D., thus missing only new units: D (or not?)

The existing structures are not really representative for the Tang dynasty (AD 618–907) either, however, historical accuracy is less important for mods, so feel free to (re)use them in Millennium A.D. Here's a suggestion for an appropiate wonder, the (fired-brick) Giant Wild Goose Pagoda in Xi'an:

Spoiler

[Nescio]

The bixie (píxiū) as a mythological animal (a winged lion-griffin-chimaera), yes, that certainly existed in Han China. The Parthians are known to have gifted lions to the Han court, which probably contributed to their popularity. Two more examples of Han statuettes (both under 10 cm), one jade, one bronze:

https://www.christies.com/en/lot/lot-6268189

https://www.metmuseum.org/art/collection/search/823655

Bixies as an architectural element is a quite different story, though. Here's how they're used in the 0 A.D. Han mod:

Spoiler

 

One detail that particularly struck me is that stone orb. It's important to realize the dragon, bixie, qilin, and guardian lion are all distinct animals. In more recent times, Chinese guardian lions (shī) were erected in pairs in front of government buildings, the left one the female (yīn) with a cub under her left pawn, the right one the male (yáng) with a cloth ball under its right pawn. I don't know of any bixies with a ball. Nor of large stone animals in front of Han-dynasty government buildings. If you do, please let me know.

To summarize, while it's a nice detail, it got the details wrong.

I'm not advocating simply removing the stone bixies from the structure: the stone platform and the stone stairs are problematic too. I don't see an easy fix here.

[hyperion]

1 hour ago, Nescio said:

the left one the female (yīn) with a cub under her left pawn, the right one the male (yáng) with a cloth ball under its right pawn

... which with limited vertices have roughly the shape of a sphere.

 

1 hour ago, Nescio said:

I'm not advocating simply removing the stone bixies from the structure: the stone platform and the stone stairs are problematic too. I don't see an easy fix here.

Is the issue the snake line pattern? Or that the stairs are made from stone? Pretty sure they used stone for the base of buildings even back then.

[Lopess]

I sent the buildings with the lanterns removed to the github. In my mod business I did an editing on the han texture just as an example of what can be done, I will not ask for a merger because I believe that an artist with more experience will achieve a texture much better than my attempt.

[Yekaterina]

Thanks guys I am no good at art. 

[Loki1950]

My old high school drafting teacher was quite forceful in saying it was not art but a precise picture of an actual object that was used to duplicate it.He came out of an architectural practice.All that said @m7600is quite right and if you add makehuman you have most things covered.

Enjoy the Choice

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Make them some hero portraits bro.

[Lopess]

 

Yes, they should have this levels, but my 2D art skills are very noobs. I believe that replacing the dragon flag with something similar to what was proposed by Yekaterina would be a good one too. 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 hour ago, m7600 said:

If I understood correctly, rammed earth should have several layers or levels. I'll see what I can do about that during the weekend. Meanwhile, I think this texture could be used for that.

https://cc0textures.com/view?id=Ground010

https://cc0textures.com/view?id=Ground017

One of these 2 could work if turned so that the grain is horizontal. 

[Lion.Kanzen]

2 hours ago, m7600 said:

@Lopess I downloaded your version as well. I like the texture that you gave them, the colors look good. If I understood correctly, rammed earth should have several layers or levels. I'll see what I can do about that during the weekend. Meanwhile, I think this texture could be used for that.

EDIT: Here's a screenshot showing the texture that Lopess added, I think it looks good.

 

@Lopess  could be used for Mesoamerican mods. It's just changing tones.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

15 minutes ago, m7600 said:

Those could work. My idea wasn't to simply add the texture "as is", but to add it to a subdivided plane mesh, sculpted to make it look like it has layers, and then exporting that as an image. Here's a quick example showing what I mean.

Looks good. I just think the roughness is a bit much. I think it would be smoother.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I think the brown color is too saturated. Try desaturating it by 40% or so?

Also, @Nescio, should the crenellations be rammed earth as well, or wood?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I would say that is better than before.

Perhaps compare it with a screenshot where it's brighter? 

[hyperion]

28 minutes ago, m7600 said:

How about now?

 

Somehow I doubt this to be more accurate than the original. Most meshs are to delicate for rammed earth. They are more based on something like the following

 

A rammed earth fortress would be more like

 

Anyway colums are always red as far as I know. Well green for pleasure houses.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

36 minutes ago, hyperion said:

A rammed earth fortress would be more like

Yeah, it would be very compact, and look like rough concrete with a hint of thin layering. This is a great reference. 

[Yekaterina]

1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Yeah, it would be very compact, and look like rough concrete with a hint of thin layering. This is a great reference.

OP Graphics! So pretty!

Do you think my MX150 can handle it?

[alre]

For me, lopes version is the best so far.

[Stan`]

Would be nice to see how it looks on max settingd

[Lopess]

 Honestly, I see the m7600 texture much closer to reality than mine, mainly because it depicts successive layers of compacted earth.

Edited April 29, 2021 by Lopess

[Lopess]

22 minutes ago, m7600 said:

Meanwhile, what do you think of this work in progress for the new version of the fortress? I think it sucks. @Stan`  made some really awesome buildings for the Han and I'm just butchering them.

A great start, if any historian has anything to emphasize, this would be a good time.

[Lopess]

13 minutes ago, m7600 said:

Does this wall make sense?

 It looks great, very close to what was requested with the references, if any historian is available for an analysis now it would be good, even if it is just a "This is really very good".

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I would say the walkway planks should go perpendicular to the wall, not lengthwise (if a wooden catwalk is even desired). I like the water spouts. Let's hope they aren't disputed by the historians.

My only concern with fat walls is that now the turrets have to be 4x fatter than other civs' wall turrets to make them work.

[Lion.Kanzen]

2 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I would say the walkway planks should go perpendicular to the wall, not lengthwise (if a wooden catwalk is even desired). I like the water spouts. Let's hope they aren't disputed by the historians.

My only concern with fat walls is that now the turrets have to be 4x fatter than other civs' wall turrets to make them work.

we should have 3 levels of stone wall, same as original AoE.

 

A small one, like the palisade but made of stone (therefore the palisade must have a variant where troops are placed on it, similar to the Roman one).

The second is the current one.

 

And the third is like Stronghold Crusader II ( That by the way that AoE IV copy it quite well).

 

I like the idea of copying other franchises with less clone mechanics of AoE (Except for convenience and variety).

 

[Stan`]

9 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

like the water spouts. Let's hope they aren't disputed by the historians.

If you read the other thread, I think they were...