Sundiata Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 Just now, Nescio said: Democracy is unworkable for anything larger than a town. It saddens me to agree with you... There are just some places that are better at keeping the appearance up. But now even those masks are slowly falling of... I really do believe in democratic principles and all the positives it has brought. It just has a rally dark side that many people choose to ignore, or are unaware of. Once human nature is understood, it becomes easily manipulatable by unscrupulous individuals and organisations. Corruption seeps into the cracks... It's a darkness, like a monster, and when it's grown, it will eat everyone, regardless of their "allegiance"! Trying to control what can't be controlled, society is buckling under the weight of it's own decadence. I feel like we've been here before... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trinketos Posted March 17, 2019 Report Share Posted March 17, 2019 1 hour ago, Sundiata said: Silly me, thinking that running back to the 3rd world would save me from this nonsense, only to find out that this will affect the whole world, as big internet companies tend to comply to the strictest versions of these laws, regardless of what country they're based in, out of fear of being blocked in a large segment of the international market (such as th EU). It puts the little fish (like us) in an impossible position... This is a fight that's much bigger than "just" the internet. The worldwide democratic deficit is growing at an alarming rate and these new and fraudulent "copyright" as well as those new "privacy" directives are feeding directly into that. The only privacy that's going to be protected is the privacy of oligarchs and political gangsters as they continue to rape and pillage this world as if there's no tomorrow. Resist! A Luta Continua! Well in Guatemala and Mexico, I have not encountered restrictions of any kind :/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genava55 Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 On 3/17/2019 at 10:19 AM, Sundiata said: I really do believe in democratic principles and all the positives it has brought. It just has a rally dark side that many people choose to ignore, or are unaware of. Once human nature is understood, it becomes easily manipulatable by unscrupulous individuals and organisations. Corruption seeps into the cracks... It's a darkness, like a monster, and when it's grown, it will eat everyone, regardless of their "allegiance"! I doubt that this kind of decision is really democratic and based on the approbation of the majority. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Direct_democracy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundiata Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 A dark day indeed... https://gizmodo.com/a-dark-day-copyright-law-that-threatens-the-internet-a-1833570802 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 (Given how much upload filters are currently in place on major sites, I wonder how much things would change with this. For multi-billion dollar company to invest in creating such a thing does not worry me in the least. It is likely that an automated filter could not differentiate fair usage. But that is not different from the state sites like Youtube are currently in. Where even singing a song yourself or picking up a song audio outside warrants a strike) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundiata Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 52 minutes ago, (-_-) said: fair usage There's no clause for fair use... 53 minutes ago, (-_-) said: But that is not different from the state sites like Youtube are currently in. Where even singing a song yourself or picking up a song audio outside warrants a strike) Can't even filter videos by their upload date anymore... Apparently because of the New Zealand shooting. An absolutely horrific attack, no question about that, but what the New Zealand terror attacks have to do with me searching for the most recent uploads of 0AD content is beyond me... The views on "non-trending" channels are plummeting because people simply can't find the most recent content on the subjects that interest them. Anyway, there's a clear example of how the new internet environment is affecting 0AD, be it indirectly. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurken Khan Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 My last hope is that the parties in favor of that will get eliminated in the upcoming European election (I've seen the according hashtags a lot), and then it can get repealed. Spoiler Supposedly a German official said (unofficially) that the Germans promised the French to vote for this sh*t, so they in turn cause no trouble for the new Russian/German gas pipeline... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elexis Posted March 26, 2019 Report Share Posted March 26, 2019 I'd love to say we should work more on darknets to make corporate censorship impossible. But I see the internet drifting more into the state that china has, where you're only allowed to visit sites sanctioned by the government and get a negative score in the social credit system if you do something that is legal but not desired. People like PhyZic always try to convince me that the people can change the world, but evidently there is no feedback channel, no means of influencing the government. Article 13 is just another perfect example of this. Hundred thousands of people showing up on demonstrations, experts showing that this can't even be implemented and will have detrimental effect on the internet. Any responses, changes in the proposals? Nil. All they did was to change the title of the thing once if I recall correctly? If people rejected it, just repackage it and repeat proposing the same thing as long until it passes. The famous Voss face speaks louder than any words what mechanisms are at play at the heads of governments (both figuratively and literally). 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itrelles Posted April 3, 2019 Report Share Posted April 3, 2019 NOTHING WILL CHANGE Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elexis Posted April 3, 2019 Report Share Posted April 3, 2019 HALT STOP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
itrelles Posted April 3, 2019 Report Share Posted April 3, 2019 NEVER Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Imarok Posted April 4, 2019 Report Share Posted April 4, 2019 On 3/26/2019 at 9:35 PM, (-_-) said: (Given how much upload filters are currently in place on major sites, I wonder how much things would change with this. For multi-billion dollar company to invest in creating such a thing does not worry me in the least. It is likely that an automated filter could not differentiate fair usage. But that is not different from the state sites like Youtube are currently in. Where even singing a song yourself or picking up a song audio outside warrants a strike) Apart from many issues regarding censorship and free speech the main issue is that following art13 most of the small sites that allow users to upload content (forums, etc.) will be forced to install filters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 (edited) 21 hours ago, Imarok said: Apart from many issues regarding censorship and free speech the main issue is that following art13 most of the small sites that allow users to upload content (forums, etc.) will be forced to install filters. The average internet user would probably not see much change. Censorship and restriction of free speech does not work in the modern age. Policing the internet is impossible. One would think they would get the message after all the attempts at shutting down pirating sites. Those who make these laws have no clue how the internet even works. Edited April 5, 2019 by Guest Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elexis Posted April 5, 2019 Report Share Posted April 5, 2019 54 minutes ago, (-_-) said: The average internet user would probably not see much change. Depends on what the implementation will look like. Not everyone will be able to implement that, so I suspect few big companies will offer such a service and most might end up using that. Then the change the users see would depend on what that corporation decides to filter for. Also there is a difference between not being affected and not seeing how you're affected. If you can't read the books that were burned, you don't know if you missed something. 57 minutes ago, (-_-) said: Censorship and restriction of free speech does not work in the modern age. Policing the internet is impossible. One would think they would get the message after all the attempts at shutting down pirating sites. It's true that they probably can't kill the message itself, but people like investigative journalists, political activists and such who rely on facebook, youtube, twitter and co to reach a big audience invest years of work into maintaining these channels and have been blacklisted for random stuff. Quite many. It seems like the main use case of such global monopolies, slowing things down as well as possible. In fact there have been alternative social media systems being put up, they got censored on the financial services paypal/mastercard too, went for CEOs etc.. If you look at China, it doesn't seem impossble to lose our internet freedom. It's a little remaining oasis. Meatspace also getting invaded by the internet of things, every lightbulb and toaster being connected to the internet... and as a computer science student I was supposed to help with that, thks, I'm fine, let's do some GPL non-profit software first. Maybe one can't silence the expression of a widespread belief, but how many whistleblowers uploaded to some honeypot whitleblower platform and disappeared without anyone ever noticing? We only know about people who were public figures and wanted to publish some controversial material before they ended up in a suspcious death (for example Gary_Webb allegedly having shot himself twice into his head). I don't think that the law is about copyright but establishment of more control mechanisms in general since they introduce just the next law to establish upload filters, this time against terrorism. Seems like looking for reasons to establish upload filters, rather than looking for means to stop terrorism and copyright infringement. Whenever terrorism laws are introduced that provide the government and private corporations more control, that is typically widened some years later to be used against the average user who has the wrong hobbies. They are even requiring artifical interlligene / machine learning to detect terrorism content upon upload. Would my post also be affected? Am I stirring hate that could result in terrorism already according to this AI? 1 hour ago, (-_-) said: Those who make these laws have no clue how the internet even works. The Voss guy for sure talks bull on the interviews. But the politicians just pass on what some people hand them over. So the question is whether the law (and new laws passed in general) dont actually exactly achieve what they're supposed to accomplish, and just break (internet or meatspace) freedom except that of few whitelisted megacorporations; consolidation. Related: I heard there is new legislation against darknets coming up. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coworotel Posted April 6, 2019 Report Share Posted April 6, 2019 On 3/17/2019 at 9:52 AM, Sundiata said: A Luta Continua! A wild Portuguese appears Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundiata Posted April 6, 2019 Report Share Posted April 6, 2019 (edited) @elexis That was straight to the point... I like that! 2 hours ago, coworotel said: A wild Portuguese appears Actually, the phrase was popularized by Samora Machel, a socialist leader, who defeated the Portuguese in the Mozambican war of independence (ended 1975). He meant to say that after the war was "won", the fight continues: Spoiler "Against tribalism!Against ignorance!Against illiteracy!Against superstition!Against misery!Against hunger!" He also fought against the white minority Rhodesian government (Zimbabwe) in support of Mugabe's Zanu PF (although he didn't actually like Mugabe) and against the Apartheid government of South Africa, in support of Mandela's ANC. He was killed in a suspicious plane crash on the South African border in 1986 (both the South Africans and the Soviets are suspected as he tried to distance himself from the USSR while supporting the independence struggle in South Africa). Like every great man, he has his own skeletons in the closet, and was far from perfect, but he was one of those people who genuinely dedicated his life to the liberation and development of his people. My personal knowledge of Portuguese is limited to such lovely words as "caralho!" and "Foda-se!" Edited April 6, 2019 by Sundiata 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
coworotel Posted April 6, 2019 Report Share Posted April 6, 2019 1 hour ago, Sundiata said: Actually, the phrase was popularized by Samora Machel, a socialist leader, who defeated the Portuguese in the Mozambican war of independence (ended 1975). He meant to say that after the war was "won", the fight continues: Your posts are always full of knowledge. 1 hour ago, Sundiata said: My personal knowledge of Portuguese is limited to such lovely words as "caralho!" and "Foda-se!" lol that's already 50% of what you need in daily life... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunChleoc Posted April 7, 2019 Report Share Posted April 7, 2019 And the word censor doesn't even catch them 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
elexis Posted April 10, 2019 Report Share Posted April 10, 2019 In Austria they are proposing or introducing a "digitales Vermummungsverbot", i.e. you can't post anything on the internet without leaving your phone number. Always reminds me of this quote from Jean-Claude Juncker: Quote "Wir beschließen etwas, stellen das dann in den Raum und warten einige Zeit ab, was passiert. Wenn es dann kein großes Geschrei gibt und keine Aufstände, weil die meisten gar nicht begreifen, was da beschlossen wurde, dann machen wir weiter - Schritt für Schritt, bis es kein Zurück mehr gibt." - in Die Brüsseler Republik, Der Spiegel, 27. Dezember 1999. Quote "We decide on something, leave it lying around, and wait and see what happens. If no one kicks up a fuss, because most people don't understand what has been decided, we continue step by step until there is no turning back." But the quote is wrong or antiquated because they obviously continue step by step regardless whether there is a fuss and people understand what has been decided. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nescio Posted April 10, 2019 Report Share Posted April 10, 2019 11 minutes ago, elexis said: But the quote is wrong or antiquated because they obviously continue step by step regardless whether there is a fuss and people understand what has been decided. Moreover, the people (politicians) making the decisions frequently fail to fully understand what they're deciding upon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted April 11, 2019 Report Share Posted April 11, 2019 I'm not surprised from this. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gurken Khan Posted April 11, 2019 Report Share Posted April 11, 2019 It's all so disgusting. The Council of Ministers will have a final vote on this on the 15th. Since Italy, Poland, Finland, Sweden, the Netherlands and Luxembourg already announced that they'll vote 'No', Germany could still prevent it. But of course that's not gonna happen. Instead our great Minister of Justice wants to say 'please use no upload-filters to filter the uploads'... Spoiler https://www.heise.de/tp/features/Digitales-Vermummungsverbot-4374536.html Quote Ob sie zustande kommt, hängt an der deutschen Bundesregierung: Die Regierungen Italiens, Polens, Finnlands, Schwedens, der Niederlande und Luxemburg haben nämlich bereits angekündigt, mit "Nein" zu stimmen. Bundesjustizministerin Katharina Barley von der SPD möchte das Vorhaben aber nicht zu blockieren und stattdessen eine unverbindliche Erklärung dazu abgeben, dass man Uploadfilter wenn möglich vermeiden will. Spoiler That's the same lovely person that's preventing whistle-blowers to be protected on European level: https://netzpolitik.org/2019/barley-hat-kein-herz-fuer-whistleblower-justizministerium-blockiert-eu-gesetz/ Spoiler But hey, we'll probably have a traffic light with cute Romans this year in Bergkamen! So not everything's bad, right? Right? Spoiler 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sundiata Posted April 11, 2019 Report Share Posted April 11, 2019 (edited) Unbelievable... Absolutely unbelievable... Quote Several MEPs have said they accidentally voted the wrong way on a key amendment of a new European copyright directive, meaning the most controversial aspects of the law might have been removed had they not erred. Before the final vote on the directive, MEPs had a vote on whether to allow one last batch of amendments. If that vote had passed, a separate vote on articles 11 and 13 would have been allowed, in which MEPs could potentially have voted to remove the controversial clauses from the final directive. The vote on whether to allow the batch of amendments failed by five votes, 312 to 317. But shortly after, in the European parliament’s official voting record, 13 MEPs asked for their vote to be recorded differently: 10 said they meant to support it, two meant to oppose it, and one meant to not vote at all. If those were counted, the result would have gone the other way. Despite the updated record of votes, however, the initial result still stands. https://www.theguardian.com/media/2019/mar/27/mep-errors-mean-european-copyright-law-may-not-have-passed Just... I don't even know what to say... The British thought they were smart... Think again... Quote Britain plans social media watchdog to battle harmful content “We are putting a legal duty of care on these companies to keep users safe; and if they fail to do so, tough punishments will be imposed,” Prime Minister Theresa May said in a video posted online. “The era of social media firms regulating themselves is over.” Media Secretary Jeremy Wright said the proposed legislation - the toughest in the world - would apply to any company that allowed users to share or discover content or interact online, such as social media sites, discussion forums, messaging services and search engines. https://www.reuters.com/article/us-britain-tech-regulation/britain-plans-social-media-watchdog-to-battle-harmful-content-idUSKCN1RJ0QP Of course the Russians couldn't resist either... Quote Russia tightens its grip on the internet with new laws that could see widespread censorship and block message apps New law would see all internet traffic routed via servers within Russia Ministers say move is to prevent internet being cut off by hostile power But critics say it will allow the government to control what people see https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6912257/Russia-tightens-grip-internet-new-laws-widespread-censorship.html Oh, and the British police just arrested Julian Assange in the Ecuadorian embassy in London, on the behalf of the US. Totally unrelated of course... https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/video/2019/apr/11/julian-assange-removed-from-ecuadorian-embassy-in-london-video http://www.14news.com/2019/04/11/julian-assange-arrested/ Only a few months ago the United Nations Human Rights Commission said: Spoiler The UN today: Edited April 12, 2019 by Sundiata 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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