Faction: Byzantines

[Alexandermb]

3 hours ago, Tomcelmare said:

Please, don't forget to add a cross on the byzantine church : 

Just a simple cross or some ornated complex one ?

[Tomcelmare]

4 hours ago, Alexandermb said:

Just a simple cross or some ornated complex one ?

For the church, I think a simple one is OK, at least for the next millenium release. Later on, you'll be able to make a more ornated one  It's just that it was shocking not to have one at all...But if anyone has another idea about the cross...Otherwise, I don't have much time these days but I'll try to find some references soon   

[Tallestdavid]

byzantine should have expensive better trained professional troops. mercenaries should be the cheaper not quantity for rome. current feels strange to see byz have same training as the guals .

[Lion.Kanzen]

23 minutes ago, Tallestdavid said:

byzantine should have expensive better trained professional troops. mercenaries should be the cheaper not quantity for rome. current feels strange to see byz have same training as the guals .

Hum? what you mean?

[asterix]

24 minutes ago, Tallestdavid said:

byzantine should have expensive better trained professional troops. mercenaries should be the cheaper not quantity for rome. current feels strange to see byz have same training as the guals .

Unfortunately, that is hard to balance, we try to our best experience to be accurate to the timeframe, of course we would like that at the end.

@Tomcelmare https://www.moddb.com/mods/millennium-ad/downloads/millenniumad

[Alexandermb]

Some training with blender in laptop:

Byza Stable WIP:

Spoiler

 

[tlauick_19]

On 8/27/2018 at 5:37 PM, Alexandermb said:

Some training with blender in laptop:

Byza Stable WIP:

  Hide contents

 

ya decia yo tenian bastante caballeria y los anglosajones 1 y tienen un establo , pero va creciendo con el tiempo este proyecto y me encanta este establo 

[Anaxandridas ho Skandiates]

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Edited April 8, 2021 by Anaxandridas ho Skandiates

[Anaxandridas ho Skandiates]

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Edited April 8, 2021 by Anaxandridas ho Skandiates

[Anaxandridas ho Skandiates]

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Edited April 8, 2021 by Anaxandridas ho Skandiates

[Anaxandridas ho Skandiates]

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Edited April 8, 2021 by Anaxandridas ho Skandiates

[Alexandermb]

This was made a long time ago trying to follow somehow the rome range "Byz Range".

Spoiler

 

[Stan`]

Feels a bit squared and like it was stretched on the Z axis. Looks nice otherwise.

[Lion.Kanzen]

@Belisarius17

[Radiotraining]

@Andronikos Medina while I hone my poor 3D skills, we can use this thread to focus on the Byzantine civilization. The bone structure is already there, but there may be some cool innovation we could add, as you have suggested!

One of the things is quite difficult to me to grasp is the architecture: there isn't much you can find online, unless you really know some relevant buildings to search. So I think it could be a good starting point also to revisit some of the current models. What do you think? Do you have suggestions on this aspect?

Feel free to add all your knowledge, materials and indications. I think is very appreciated!

 

[Andronikos Medina]

I will be more than happy to help with any style or aspect that is needed for the Byzantines.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

@wowgetoffyourcellphone

fire damage was added to dromons?

I remembered seeing this documentary in drawings.

 

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Yes, the current iteration of the mod has a flame attack for the Byzantine bireme.

[Lion.Kanzen]

[Lion.Kanzen]

 

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

 

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

 

To get a little inspiration.

[Lion.Kanzen]

 

 

[Ultimate Aurelian]

https://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/ncey0d/did_medieval_european_warships_ever_have_mounted/

 

Quote

in the section on the Expedition(s) to Crete in the De Ceremoniis of the Roman ("Byzantine") Emperor Constantine VII, he explicitly details the equipping of ships with artillery and flamethrowers:

For fitting out 4 traction-powered stone-throwers, 4 lambda-framed stone-throwers, 4 machines:

30 rings, 15 clamps, 30 shackles, also for the large bow-ballistae, rams for the tortoises, 15 bolts, 20 large weights, and 30 smaller weights, and for the large bow-ballistae the prescribed amount of iron. 10,000 litrai of pitch, 300 round pitchers of liquid tar, 40 pitchers of cedar resin, 8000 litrai of linen, 2000 litrai of hemp, 20 skiffs, 12 iron slings, 50 extra anchor cables, 50 anchors, 100 linden cables, 100 grapnel cables, 100 spartum cables, 200 lightweight cables, 100 four-legged grates, 50 litrai of linen for the sponges, 400 mooring cables, 24 siphons for the 8 pamphyloi, 80 siphons for the 40 ousakia khelandia, 6000 decking nails.

This is not the only source, as Emperor Leo VI's Taktike Constitution 19 also gives details:

6. By all means, it should have a siphon, bound in bronze, and placed up front on the prow, as is customary, so that it can project the prepared fire against the enemy. Above this particular siphon there should be a sort of platform made of planks and walled around by planks. Station combat troops there to ward off attacks coming from the prow of the enemy ships or to shoot whatever weapons they may choose against the whole enemy ship.

7. On the largest dromons erect the so-called xylokastra (forecastles) with their wall of planks somewhere around the middle of the mast. From these vantage points our men will shoot millstones or heavy pieces of iron such as those shaped like spathia (swords). These will either break up the enemy ship or, landing with great force, crush those on whom they fall. The men may also hurl other things capable of setting the enemy ships on fire or of killing the troops on board.

59. The ancients, as well as more recent authorities, devised many weapons for use against enemy ships and against the fighting men in them, such as prepared fire with thunder and fiery smoke discharged through the siphons, blackening them with smoke.

60. Or toxovolistrai placed in both the prow and the stern and on the two sides of the dromon, discharging small arrows that are called muias ("flies"). Still, others conceived of animals shut up in pots to be hurled against the enemy ships. Among these would be snakes, vipers, lizards, scorpions, and other such venomous creatures. When the pots are shattered, the animals bite and by their poison wipe out the enemy on board the ships.

61. And other pots filled with unslaked lime. When these are hurled and shattered, the vapor from the asvestos chokes and blinds the enemy and proves to be a huge annoyance.

62. Iron trivoloi (caltrops) hurled onto the enemy ships will cause them no little annoyance and will keep them from dutifully engaging in the battle at hand.

63. but we command that the pots full of the prepared fire, according to the prescribed method of their preparation, should be hurled; on shattering they shall easily burn up the ships of the enemy.

64. Make use also of the other method, that is, of the small siphons projected by hand from behind the iron skoutaria (shields) held by the soldiers. These are called kheirosiphone and have been fabricated recently by our majesty. These too will throw the prepared fire into the face of the enemy.

65. Also larger iron caltrops or sharp nails hammered into wooden spheres, then wrapped in hemp or some other substance, set on fire, and thrown against the enemy. Falling in various places, they will set the ships aflame.

67. It is possible to use the so-called cranes or similar gamma-shaped contrivances that revolve in a circle. When the enemy ships are bound to your dromons, turn the machine around against them and pour on them either burning liquid pitch or a net or some other material.

There were three kinds of machine artillery used by the Romans against enemy ships: the toxobolistra ("bow-ballista", still the classic torsion-powered engine seen in the classical and late antique Roman empire), the manganikon or alakation/elakation ("machine" or "revolver" aka a mangonel aka a traction trebuchet). These were slightly more complex than the typical machines we see in art or reconstructions, as they had pulleys as mentioned in the De Ceremoniis. These were what were used to hurl the aforementioned stones, fire grenades, and other more exotic ammunition, alongside with those hurled by hand. Finally there were the cranes, which had the same general form and function as the alakation but were used to swivel and pour or drop fire, stones, and nets directly onto the enemy watercraft.

It's also possible that the old onager, which would have simply been called a bolistra (it operates exactly the same way as bolt-thrower, but has one torsion spring which is positioned horizontally) was still around and also used to hurl small pots and anti-personnel stones. It is not directly mentioned as being mounted on the ships (just like the manganikon or alakation/elakation), but we know they were still around from various sources.

And of course, there was the siphon, the great invention of the 670's that allowed the Roman navy (which effectively hadn't had to deal with decked warship combat in ~600-700 years and learned that lesson the hard way after their open-decked patrol boats were smashed to pieces at the Battle of the Masts in 654) to use liquid fire to overpower the Arabs (the liquid fire itself wasn't a new invention, the siphon was).

As far as I know, most of this technology was eventually copied by the Western Europeans, as they brought back the counterweight trebuchet (invented by the Romans in the 1000's) after the first crusade, and the ballista was adapted into the springald. 

Byzantines could potentially be one of the only 1000 AD civs with heavy/siege ships and siege bolt throwers, at least in Part 1 (more dark ages focused)

 

 

Edited 50 minutes ago by Ultimate Aurelian