For a New Faction: Lusitanian.

[whocares]

Hi

i worked in a museum regarding this, Castros were not from lusitania, they are characetristic from callaecia, the northwestern iberian civilization

i can give some info regarding this

Gallaeci (people)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallaeci

Gallaecia (place)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gallaecia

Culture

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Castro_culture

Breogan - a possible hero

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breog%C3%A1n

Pedralva's Colossos - probably a fertility god, mysterious statue from a castro

https://lusophia.files.wordpress.com/2013/02/dsc01388.jpg

[whocares]

some text regarding viking encounters with callaecia

http://legiaoinvicta.blogspot.pt/2005/11/vikings-na-gallaecia.html

in modern days theres some separatist groups defending we should split portugal and parts of spain and recreate a northern country


i think it would be worth a new civ just for callaecia

[Lion.Kanzen]

some text regarding viking encounters with callaecia

http://legiaoinvicta.blogspot.pt/2005/11/vikings-na-gallaecia.html

in modern days theres some separatist groups defending we should split portugal and parts of spain and recreate a northern country

i think it would be worth a new civ just for callaecia

more information is required for make a whole faction. By now we haven't artist into the project.( active)

[whocares]

in the whole topic u are discussing the lusitanians civilization and throwing things unique to Callaecian civilization in there, that was my point.

the whole thread could be called "For a new faction, Gallaecia" and it would be more accurate...

there was no writing in Callaecia before the romans so details are scarce, but there are a few texts from the romans with relevant info


I do not have the time to engage in this project , but i feel this is relevant for this thread

edit:

i can search for relevant texts and mabe even translate a few portuguese ones if there is interest

just from wikipedia theres already some good excerpts:

"...then the Vettonians and the Vaccaeans, through whose territory the Durius [Douro] River flows, which affords a crossing at Acutia, a city of the Vaccaeans; and last, the Callaicans, [Gallaicans] who occupy a very considerable part of the mountainous country. For this reason, since they were very hard to fight with, the Callaicans themselves have not only furnished the surname for the man who defeated the Lusitanians [meaning Decimus Junius Brutus Callaicus, Roman general] but they have also brought it about that now, already, the most of the Lusitanians are called Callaicans."

"Rich Gallaecia sent its youths, wise in the knowledge of divination by the entrails of beasts, by feathers and flames— who, now crying out the barbarian song of their native tongue, now alternately stamping the ground in their rhythmic dances until the ground rang, and accompanying the playing with sonorous caetrae" (a caetra was a small type of shield used in the region).

also may be relevant,

a virtual tour of citania de briteiros, explore the ruins in your browser

http://citania.csarmento.uminho.pt/default.asp?language=2

spanish study:

https://www4.uwm.edu/celtic/ekeltoi/volumes/vol6/6_12/olivares_6_12.html

regarding gods:

https://www4.uwm.edu/celtic/ekeltoi/volumes/vol6/6_12/olivares_6_12.html

regarding language:

http://www.ancient-celts.com/languagesceltiberian2.html

Edited August 11, 2015 by whocares

[Ardworix]

As you already mentioned, Strabo says the Lusitanian is designated Galician.

"the most of the Lusitanians are called Callaicans." - Strabo.

However the greatest war waged against the Romans in the Iberian designated by the classic historiography, it was designated "Lusitanian Wars", getting the name.

[Phalanx]

There was been a lot of impressive work on this. Ardworix, your resoluteness is stunning. I for one, am always up for lots of factions, and I think that's why players love AoE II the most out of all the AoE games because it had the most diversity and factions. Makes strategy more interesting.

But, for the Lusitanians to become a faction, you will need to come up with a suggestion and ideas for another specific Iberian faction. Just how the Celts were split into Gauls and Britons, the Iberians need to be split into Lusitanians, and a sufficiently different faction for this to work.

Great dedication though!

Edited January 10, 2016 by SeleucidKing

[Ardworix]

The current Iberian faction, basically follows a structural aesthetics of celtiberians buildings with Iberian costumes.

Recalling that the Iberian peninsula is divided into 3 major groups:

1. Proto-Celts (Galician-Lusitanian);
2. Celtiberos; and
3. Iberians.

The Lusitanians were the greatest and most powerful of the Iberian nations and that more time resisted the Roman arms. In what was called "Lusitanian War", with Viriato, the Lusitanian chief, never having been defeated by the Romans.

Edited January 13, 2016 by Ardworix

[Ardworix]

"All the mountaineers lead a simple life, are water-drinkers, sleep on the ground, and let their hair stream down in thick masses after the manner of women, though before going into battle they bind their hair about the forehead.

The shield of which use is small, with only two feet in diameter, the front side is concave;. Bring the drop to the neck by a lanyard, do not see one with clamps or buckles They set up with a dagger or sword . Most have linen breastplates; others, but in small numbers, using mail and the triple summit helmet;. in general helmets are leather Pedestrians also have leather gaiters, and each takes many long darts in hand;. some serve up spears with bronze tip [...] All the men wear black, and telling the truth, do not leave your Sagos making use of them as blankets in their dry straw beds :. these robes, like those of the Celts, are made of coarse wool or goat hair Women only wear robes and colored dresses made of crossed wire ". - Strabo, Geography, Book III.

"They use iron spears, swords and helmets and use as the Celtiberians.

They use rough black robes made of wool, such as goat hair. Some of them are armed with light shields Gauls, others with Sketon as big as shields and use greaves on his legs made of coarse hair and bronze helmets on their heads, adorned with red feathers. They carry two-edged swords exactly seasoned with steel, and have daggers beside a long period, they do use in upcoming fights. "- Diodorus Siculus - Book V, Britain, Gaul and Iberia.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Ardworix

[Ardworix]

The Lusitanians Sanctuaries

The Lusitanians held their religious ceremonies in rupestres "sanctuaries" in the hills, called "croio teutático".

Strabon reports that:

"The Lusitanian often sacrifice to the gods, examine the entrails without the boot of the body of the victims, also observe the chest veins, and also take certain indications by simple probing. Even Consult in some cases human entrails, serving up to that of pows, previously lining the sagum ([xvii]) to the sacrifice, and when the victim falls to the open womb by the hand of arúspice ([xviii]) take the first omen of own downfall of the body. often also cut the right hand to the captives and offer it to the gods. "

Croio Teutático

[DarcReaver]

Yeah, this is exactly what 0 ad needs. More factions..

[feneur]

I don't want to discourage discussion and interest in other civilizations, but I thought I should make it clear that it is very unlikely that we will add any more civilizations. More civilizations can of course be added in mods, but we don't want to have too high a number as that would mean that we would not be able to make them as good/different/balanced as we wish. 12 is a good number (though I personally think we could have made a better game with fewer civilizations, but this is not my game ), and we don't want to throw way the work already done for these civilizations, but we don't want to add any more.

It is impossible to create a fun game and at the same time get a perfect representation of all the different cultural variations during this 500 year period, so regardless of where we draw the line there's going to have to be compromises.

[av93]

Just personal flavor, I would liked more generic factions (greek and celts) instead of splitting them and then adding some more generic factions like germans and schtyans. It gives you more choices in scenario design for a broader contexts and territory, but as Feneur said, if you don't like it, you can always make a mod (that is the one of the key of 0 a.d). Nice forum udapte

Edited January 24, 2016 by av93

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

9 hours ago, feneur said:

though I personally think we could have made a better game with fewer civilizations

Thr problems with this game are not even remotely related to the number of civilization.

Edited January 24, 2016 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Lion.Kanzen]

I was talk years ago with Micheal in a topic, we can follow the path of Forgotten Team, adding Civs not as mods, adding as Free DLC or Free Expansion to let the team finish the game, later... In years we can add more things.

[intipablo]

1 hour ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

I was talk years ago with Micheal in a topic, we can follow the path of Forgotten Team, adding Civs not as mods, adding as Free DLC or Free Expansion to let the team finish the game, later... In years we can add more things.

I completely agree with this, and it would be really fun if we could get some Expansions/and or DLCs

[DarcReaver]

You haven't even finished the basic concept of the game. As long as the game isn't finished don't even think about dlcs... lol.. 

[Lion.Kanzen]

3 hours ago, DarcReaver said:

You haven't even finished the basic concept of the game. As long as the game isn't finished don't even think about dlcs... lol.. 

So don't ask more factions if is that way. 12 are planned for the first part. Basic concept art was planned but the game evolves to redesign again, and again. How many times you think this happen, ask to the "Old Timer".

[Ardworix]

I contemplated the Lusitanian faction, which Sertório figure up from the Lusitanian heroes. Sertorius was a Roman general who led the so-called war sertoriana the front of the Lusitanian. Sertório, was exiled in North Africa, with the death of Viriato, the Lusitanian rescued so that liderassem in the liberation of lusitania the Roman judge. Sertório then organized the earlier Lusitanian hordes in the Roman army formations, did build a naval squadron, endowed them with siege weapons and so dominated the whole Iberian. But it ended up having the same fate as Viriato, when was murdered at a banquet. I would have been able to sweep the Roman occupation of the Iberian.

So with the choice of Sertório as hero, the Lusitanian faction could be provided with improvements turtle formations, siege weapons, warships, etc ...

Now, if disposal, creating new factions. I think we could do something similar, even within the Iberian faction when choosing Viriato as hero.

It might i to create an elite corps made available with the choice of hero Viriato, the "devotio", a body of sworn officers to give their lives for their boss.

I do not know if it would be feasible biggest changes as the costumes, structures, etc ... for greater lusitanization the Iberian faction to choose the hero Viriato

[wackyserious]

Did the Iberian peninsula civilizations dyed their cloth/textiles?

Celtiberians might have because of Celtic influence, I'm not so sure about the other two though?

If yes, did they also used the most common ones?

[Ardworix]

Yes, I talk about it at the beginning of the topic.

There is a Roman mural depicting the spoils of war, alluding to the end of the war in the Iberian Northwest, where we can see the weapons used.

The scamatta lorica appears to have been originally of use of the Lusitanians, and later copied by the Romans as the "glaudius hispaniensis". The use of crimson color, the Roman army wore gray, when the invasion of the Iberian. The "salutatio iberika" was also copied by the Romans.

 

Shield called by romans caetra, probably name lusitanian "Ataga" with "kladiwos"/sword.

 

lorica squamatta

Edited January 31, 2016 by Ardworix

[Genava55]

On 1/31/2016 at 10:32 PM, Ardworix said:

There is a Roman mural depicting the spoils of war, alluding to the end of the war in the Iberian Northwest, where we can see the weapons used.

It's look like Gladiator weaponry to me. Especially the last picture, with this kind of helmet and arm protection.

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-gladiator-fight-relief-from-about-30-bc-perhaps-a-part-of-a-funerary-135831767.html

 

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, Genava55 said:

It's look like Gladiator weaponry to me. Especially the last picture, with this kind of helmet and arm protection.

https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-gladiator-fight-relief-from-about-30-bc-perhaps-a-part-of-a-funerary-135831767.html

 

Isnt coincidence is like Thracian helmet.

Boetian

so they mixed many features of them. thats why Thracian gladiator is called these way.

1

Quote

Like I wrote in the initial post; according to iconography I agree that military helmets were used for most Armaturae up until the early Augustan period.
We often see the Thracian/Phrygian helmet worn by the Thraex, the Hoplomachus is shown with the hellenistic attic helmet,,the Eques wear Boetian helmets, the Provocators Imperial Gallic As/Weissenaus and the Essedarii (Galli?) wear Port type B.
The three helmets I refer to however are somewhat exceptional, as these are clearly of a precursor type to the later Chieti type Gladiator helmets. I am not an expert on helmets in the military iconography in the late Republican/early Augustan period, nut I have never seen anything like these in a military context,
We do see these in a Gladiatorial context however, and Junkelmann also classifies these type of helmet as only Gladiatorial in his chart showing the evolution of Gladiatorial and military helmets.

Apart form the aforementioned relief showing the Murmillo/Retiarius fight such helmets are also shown on these two figurines of Parmularii: :

https://www.romanarmytalk.com/thread-22767.html

Edited October 27, 2018 by Lion.Kanzen

[Sundiata]

@Genava55 & @Lion.Kanzen, this whole thread is problematic... The OP passes off Celtiberian Castro Culture sites as Lusitanian, for example, without any nuance whatsoever... I get the hibigeebies from this thread for a number of reasons...  

[Genava55]

1 minute ago, Sundiata said:

@Genava55 & @Lion.Kanzen, this whole thread is problematic... The OP passes off Celtiberian Castro Culture sites as Lusitanian, for example, without any nuance whatsoever... I get the hibigeebies from this thread for a number of reasons...  

The same. It is suspicious for me.

[Genava55]