End of Yekaterina's lying (title was "End of Yekaterina")

[Yekaterina]

GG

Firstly I would like to thank Stan and all developers who put their time and effort into building a game that I was able to enjoy for 3 years, spanning across 3 alphas. It has been a major part of my life in these years and has changed me significantly. I learnt much and invested much into 0ad, at the same time enjoyed all the battles and booms.

Due to many reasons, I have concluded that it's in the best interest of everyone for me to quit 0ad completely. I have been a flagrant violator of Lobby TOS and a top smurfer, so I do deserve a ban at least. Inside the lobby, nz. has listed me alongside JC, basiliskos and sanafur as the 4 most hated players of 0ad.

In addition, there is the spreading false rumour that I am Shyft. Many people actually buy into that and harass me in TGs to retaliate on Shyft. Sadly they have been attacking the wrong person all the time. If you think I am as horrible as Shyft ...I should just disappear from your lives to stop agonizing you...

On forums, I have been proposing the same 4 points for 2 years and in the end my ideas were remarked as "strange " and "exaggerated". My proposals to game mechanics changes such as disable unit pushing, instant turn +acceleration and light speed projectile projectile to eliminate dancing were met with heavy resistance. My attempt to contribute to lag reduction was abstractGUI, but that is mocked everywhere for its too abstract appearance. Few use it. Since I am not welcome anywhere in the community, it's time for me to disappear...

I will apologize for any unfinished mods and patches. @leopard I'm afraid A27 abstractGUI mod wont exist, but I'm sure you will find other ways of reducing lag like disable eye candy.

Finally, a big thank you to all the friends who have taught me gameplay skills and spent your valuable time with me. I wish you all the best and farewell. It's time for all of us to move on. Please forget me then live long and prosper!

Vergisst mich!

@Stan`you can delete me now, if it pleases you

 

Kate/ Yekaterina

 

Edited May 20, 2023 by Norse_Harold

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

[Gurken Khan]

You announced your departure several times.

That doesn't mean I don't believe you mean it this time. I wish you could find a way with less drama. And separate certain things; like stuff in the lobby, ideas about gameplay...

Anyway, best to you.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Gurken Khan

[Lion.Kanzen]

[Norse_Harold]

Yekaterina, you recently sent me a copy of a similar "goodbye" message that you wrote to weirdJokes in 2021. It clearly wasn't the truth. I think it's not the truth in this case either. I think that you will try to create duplicate accounts with different names. You said that you were found out in the past, and the longest you went without being found out was a month.

New duplicate accounts will just be merged with Yekaterina again. So yes, you're here forever.

In order to correct the real problem (lack of trust of Yekaterina) I recommend that you do restorative justice, which involves  apologizing, accepting responsibility for, and righting all of the wrongs that you have done through restitution, community service, etc. We will then celebrate Yekaterina's new, strong moral code.

We ensure that accusations that you're Shyft are irrelevant because the new Yekaterina has such a strong moral code that there's no question that Yekaterina is a pillar of the community and definitely not Shyft. Eventually we will figure this out together with everyone and the truth will float. After the process of restorative justice is complete, I advise that you stick to the name Yekaterina.

Restorative Justice - Why Do We Need it • BRAVE NEW FILMS (BNF)

The habit of "Oh, I messed up and made people angry. They found out that I lied and they don't trust me now. I'll just create a new identity and hope they don't know it's me" DOES NOT WORK ANYMORE. People can sniff you out a mile away. Stop doing it. Just play under Yekaterina and face the bleeping consequences of what you did, and apologize to people and engage in restorative justice, so that they no longer are angry at you and you can play as a reputable and upstanding community member.

Meanwhile we will invite the others to engage in restorative justice for the wrongs that they committed...

Edited May 20, 2023 by Norse_Harold

[Lion.Kanzen]

She is still young. It will take her a couple of years.

[seeh]

5 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

She is still young. It will take her a couple of years.

Maybe yKat is old or not? Or a group of people? idk. How could you/we know that?

@Yekaterina
I thank you for many things you have done for us. a lot was confusing. and you were often unavailable and under a different name. we are always learning. surely you too. see you again soon in future.

[Atrik]

We love you @Yekaterina, unnecessary dramas.

[leopard]

I personally don't agree that you leave 0AD if some people believe that you are shyft.

I don't want you to leave this game as a player or as a developer, you are young and things that you achieved in 0AD as a gamer and as a dev until now is some thing that I will not be able to dream at your age. I strongly believe you can help the new players and developers in the future, I see great potential in you.

If anyone in this forum think that yeketerina is shyft, please try to talk to him personally and find the truth of it, please stop accusing him directly and make him angry and frustrated just because you don't care about others feelings.

please try to care about people playing this game, I see @Yekaterina is a teenager and is emotionally vulnerable.

And you guys are accusing him as the same person who mentally harassed him for a long time.

I am a witness of what that player and others in reza-maths server talked about him.

If you think @Yekaterina is overacting on this situation, you are wrong.

It's been more than a month since people started accusing him as shyft and this is enough for anyone to lose cool.

I believed them a bit and talked yeketerina about it and after talking with him for more than a week I am convinced he is not shyft and he can never become anything like shyft ever.

If you don't believe me try to talk with him personally without accusations and if you don't care to talk then stop bothering him by accusations.

If you don't care who is behind the account then stop insults just play if you don't want to play with him just leave or spec.  

39 minutes ago, Atrik said:

We love you @Yekaterina, unnecessary dramas.

its not unnecessary dram atrik, people are causing him too much trouble whenever he plays.

Yeketerina is one of the few OP players who cares about weaker players and tried to make their gameplay more competitive.

I think your contributions are valuable and you can contribute more.

But

If you think people are not accepting you and they are too stubborn against your opinions and every effort you put is wasted because of lack of peoples support, 

and you think its a wastage of time if you continue further and you have better things to do ( you sure do, you have to take care of your future)

and don't want to continue further I will not force you to stay in 0AD. It's your life you get to decide what you do with it.

also I think 0AD developers are also not getting anything in return other than hard work and blame of people,

so your contributions when compared to them has only started.

you can stay and learn and contribute or  you can say goodbye to everyone and never show up.

I would like to see you around in games and discord and in forum, because I do care about you.

[Lion.Kanzen]

4 hours ago, seeh said:

Maybe yKat is old or not? Or a group of people? idk. How could you/we know that?

@Yekaterina

She behaves like the age she claims to be.

[Norse_Harold]

Well said, leopard. I also want Yekaterina to stay in the game. And, accusations without proof are not cool.

That said, Yekaterina has some apologizing to do, and opportunity for restitution of those wronged, for tricking us about duplicate accounts (Sevda, Helicity, etc.), making countless unauthorized duplicate accounts, sharing accounts with others, disruptive behavior with third party XMPP clients (encouraging nickname changes to impersonate people, suspected orchestration of spam attacks on the lobby), and attempts to teach people how to bypass bans.

But, the bottom line is that Yekaterina is a valued participant of the WFG community, and we can sort out trust issues by doing the right thing.

Yekaterina isn't the only one who needs to improve here. There are players who are doing low-level bullying, insults, racism, uncooperative behavior in team games, etc.

weirdJokes, it's basically bullying to call someone something that they're not without proof.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Norse_Harold

[leopard]

5 minutes ago, Norse_Harold said:

That said, Yekaterina has some apologizing to do, and opportunity for restitution of those wronged, for tricking us about duplicate accounts (Sevda, Helicity, etc.), disruptive behavior with third party XMPP clients (encouraging nickname changes to impersonate people, suspected orchestration of spam attacks on the lobby), and attempts to teach people how to bypass bans

his disruptive behavior made the lobby more secure.

but anyways if we insist an apology it might affect him emotionally, may be 0AD community can ignore his wrongdoings or forgive him 

because he is not just anybody, As far as I understand he is 0AD contributor, even though his wrongdoings are violation of 0AD rules but it is not threatening to the community or WFG,

or it affected anyone personally.

If it was a Random person we can impose strict rules against him.

But this is yeketerina and his trickings were harmless, we can ignore or forgive it as an irritating behavior of a teenager.

also 0AD community should apologize to @Yekaterina if we demotivated him from doing something good to 0AD.

may be the community and @Yekaterina should forgive each other and move on.

[Norse_Harold]

21 minutes ago, leopard said:

his disruptive behavior made the lobby more secure.

This is not a justification for disruptive behavior. Spam attacks are basically denial of service attacks because no one can talk during that time. And, threatening messages were included in the spam like overthrow of the US government, you can't stop us, etc. This surely scared everyone in the lobby, because they didn't know what other hacking might be taking place.

The correct procedure for making software more secure is responsible disclosure. That means private disclosure of security vulnerabilities and exploits to the WFG core team, setting deadlines for WFG solving the problems (typically 90 days), then public disclosure, but NEVER actual exploitation of the vulnerabilities.

What made the lobby more secure was Dunedan, Norse_Harold, and others interrupting their own lives, and staying up late for several days, in order to diagnose and improve the ModerationBot software, and monitor and ban bad actor lobby accounts. That could have been done with no drama by a responsible disclosure process.

Leopard, the exact reason that Yekaterina is suggesting (hasn't actually made an effective request because it was phrased as a conditional statement "if it pleases you") request for deletion of the account is in order to avoid the consequences of bad behavior. This is Yekaterina's pattern.

I'm trying to help Yekaterina see the value in not doing that again. Creating a new name does not solve the real problem, which is a lack of trust of the person behind Yekaterina. Accusations that Yekaterina is Shyft are totally impossible if people trust Yekaterina, so the accusations are a symptom of the deeper problem of a lack of trust.

Restorative Justice is a way to solve those trust problems. Talk to me privately about it if you want to get involved. That means everyone involved, not just Yekaterina: victims, co-conspirators, low-level bullies of Yekaterina, etc. Victims help decide what restitution is expected of Yekaterina and other perpetrators. Other perpetrators have an opportunity to apologize to the community and those harmed and right the wrongs.

Edited May 20, 2023 by Norse_Harold

[leopard]

you are right @Norse_Harold if people could trust yekaterina they wouldn't have done accusations.

also exposing vulnerabilities in public and encouraging others to exploit that by publishing on youtube is not justifiable.

also @Yekaterina me and everyone should respect the people who are investing time for this project.

[Gurken Khan]

1 hour ago, leopard said:

If it was a Random person we can impose strict rules against him.

Ah yes, some people are more equal than others.

[Lion.Kanzen]

21 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

Ah yes, some people are more equal than others.

You in Europe take for granted that the supremacy of law and equality is given in all countries.

 

That thought predominates more in Protestant Europe, in other cultures we are more relaxed with that norm (that's bad).

 

But it is the reality, in hospic cultures it is normal, then this generates corruption and preferential treatment.

[sarcoma]

Yekaterina is obviously extremely smart so most of us can't think at her level and some people get annoyed at her or jealous. She is also hyperactive and impulsive witch sometimes manifests in her many great contributions and sometimes in erratic behavior. Anyways, she should really focus on being the best scientist and occasionally waste some time playing 0ad or whatever, but never lose sleep over some lame toxic haters.

[leopard]

12 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

Ah yes, some people are more equal than others.

I feel 0AD community should not treat each others as complete strangers.

I was comparing yeketerina with a random person who 0AD community don't know at all.

I think we have to follow the path of Restorative Justice like @Norse_Harold suggested, that can fix the conflicts between

devs vs yeketerina

players vs yeketerina

community members vs yeketerina

and eventually allow yeketerina contribute constructively to 0AD if he wants to.

That seems more fair than yelling at him in forum and in game chats

Edited May 21, 2023 by leopard

[Gurken Khan]

4 hours ago, leopard said:

I feel 0AD community should not treat each others as complete strangers.

That would be ok, but generally rules are in place for a reason and they should be enforced without regard to the person. If anything, I could make the argument that it's more important to enforce them with a high-profile person than with a nobody that no one even knows or notices. But I don't have any beef with Yekatarina, so I'm not really invested in the outcome.

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, Gurken Khan said:

That would be ok, but generally rules are in place for a reason and they should be enforced without regard to the person. If anything, I could make the argument that it's more important to enforce them with a high-profile person than with a nobody that no one even knows or notices. But I don't have any beef with Yekatarina, so I'm not really invested in the outcome.

This has a cultural background that I love to repeat from time to time:

 

In 1538, Jean Calvin and some of his friends were expelled from the city of Geneva by the authorities. Cardinal Sadoleto took advantage of this moment to send a letter to the public authorities of the city urging them to reject the Reformation and return to obedience to Rome. Cardinal Sadoleto's letter was very well written, but the truth is that it must not have convinced the Genevans, who in 1539 asked Calvin (who was still in exile) to reply to the cardinal by letter. Calvin wrote his reply to Cardinal Sadoleto in six days and the text became a classic in the history of theology. It is beyond the scope of this series to delve into the booklet, but it is worth mentioning because in it we can contemplate two visions of the law that differentiated - as so many other things! - the nations in which the Reformation triumphed from those in which it did not. The dilemma that arose was whether the criterion that marked conduct should be in submission to the law or, on the contrary, to the institution that established without superior control what a law says and to which one must submit. Sadoleto defended the second criterion while Calvin supported the first.For Calvin, it was obvious that the law - in this case, the Bible - had primacy and, therefore, if a person or institution departed from it, it lacked legitimacy. Cardinal Sadoleto, on the other hand, argued that it was the institution that decided how that law was applied and that to depart from obedience to the institution was extraordinarily grave. The Reformation opted for the first view, while in the nations where the Counter-Reformation took hold a different principle was maintained, which established not only that not everyone was equal before the law but that, in addition, there were social sectors that were not subject to the law. A culture of justified exception was thus created.

 

Translated From-

Protestant Reformation and the primacy of the law

 

https://protestantedigital.com/la-voz/1863/reforma-protestante-y-la-primacia-de-la-ley

 

----

This has a cultural background that I love to repeat from time to time.

 

And you are right the rules do and should apply equally to everyone with no exceptions.

https://www.americanbar.org/groups/public_education/resources/rule-of-law/

 

The rule of law is a set of principles, or ideals, for ensuring an orderly and just society. Many countries throughout the world strive to uphold the rule of law where no one is above the law, everyone is treated equally under the law, everyone is held accountable to the same laws, there are clear and fair processes for enforcing laws, there is an independent judiciary, and human rights are guaranteed for all.

[Atrik]

Any resurgence of @Yekaterina in any shape of smurf detected yet? Few players said they'll leave 0ad recently but of all, the biggest loss for the community is you Yeka.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Norse_Harold

[Norse_Harold]

Yekaterina's forum account has 2907 posts. That's a significant percentage of the total forum content. They're helpful, constructive posts that ask insightful questions, provide feedback on bugs and opportunity for improvement, answer people's questions, share replays, teach people how to play the game, etc. For example, I'm regularly directing new players to read Kate0AD's guide "From nub to OP" when they state that they can't beat the AI.

Yekaterina, you have an opportunity to reconsider on the deletion request. It would be a good gesture that would demonstrate that you care about the community. I've sent you a PM with an invitation to get started on Restorate Justice in order to regain a state of trust in the 0 A.D. community.

11 hours ago, Atrik said:

Any resurgence of @Yekaterina in any shape of smurf detected yet?

I can neither confirm nor deny this. Lobby moderators won't be answering this question until the time is right because it would disclose to Yekaterina if, how, and/or when we have detected duplicate accounts.

Others, please privately share with WFG clues and rumors about duplicate accounts used by Yekaterina.

Those with accounts that were shared with Yekaterina, please change your passwords so that Yekaterina does not know your passwords.

It is not an option for Yekaterina to try to hide from the consequences of misconduct by using duplicate accounts. And, it won't solve the problem that Yekaterina is concerned about, anyway: lack of trust in the community. What will solve that problem is Restorative Justice: apology and restitution to the people who were affected by the misconduct.

Edited May 30, 2023 by Norse_Harold

[Gurken Khan]

22 minutes ago, Norse_Harold said:

Yekaterina, you have an opportunity to reconsider on the deletion request.

On 20/05/2023 at 3:01 AM, Yekaterina said:

@Stan`you can delete me now, if it pleases you

The "deletion request" was phrased as an offer; not that @Stan` would need that if he chose to do so. I guess he doesn't feel like it would please him.

[Atrik]

10 hours ago, Norse_Harold said:

I can neither confirm nor deny this. Lobby moderators won't be answering this question until the time is right because it would disclose to Yekaterina if, how, and/or when we have detected duplicate accounts.

@Norse_Harold ok weird.

Edited May 31, 2023 by Atrik

[thephilosopher]

This is the most Shakespearean thread on the forum.