Problems with shared and smurf accounts, and rating inaccuracies (Title was "What?")

[vinme]

Edited May 18, 2023 by Norse_Harold

[Yekaterina]

@vinme felixix is a well-known user and his rating is approximately accurate. So you should let him play. 

Whether he has access to berhudar or any other account is another story. 

[alre]

maybe next time be nicer, like "welcome berhudar, I'd like to game your main account, will you change it? I'm waiting here".

Am I being too weird? 

[Guest]

I would have disconnected when defc0n joined too, rather for my privacy even if it would have been too late.

Else I don't see any value in this thread. Yes felixix is top3 ; we all know that (all except one to be precise)

Edited May 15, 2023 by rm -rf

[Yekaterina]

1 hour ago, alre said:

Am I being too weird? 

Not at all, I think  what you said there is very reasonable.

Even though felixix might have been a shared account, the average performance of felixix in its history is still imperssive. 

[borg-]

Do like me, don't say anything, just kick.
Berhudar has (that I know) at least 5 smurf accounts.
It doesn't matter if we know he's a berhudar, if I win against the real account, I get more points than with the smurf, and that's fairer.

[LetswaveaBook]

3 hours ago, alre said:

maybe next time be nicer, like "welcome berhudar, I'd like to game your main account, will you change it? I'm waiting here".

No, that does not work with him. He won't come with the berhudar account.

The entire idea of having ratings and accounts is undermined by endless smurf accounts. I don't know if going anonymous would be bad. But if the lobby moderators set the rule of no double accounts, then repeatedly breaking the rule is respect-less. Especially since those moderators are volunteers as well.

[Lion.Kanzen]

13 minutes ago, LetswaveaBook said:

The entire idea of having ratings and accounts is undermined by endless smurf accounts. I don't know if going anonymous would be bad. But if the lobby moderators set the rule of no double accounts, then repeatedly breaking the rule is respect-less. Especially since those moderators are volunteers as well.

That's what I say, you should be able to change the nickname and preserve a unique id instead of the identity being the nickname.

[Guest]

2 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

That's what I say, you should be able to change the nickname and preserve a unique id instead of the identity being the nickname.

fully agree.

[Yekaterina]

7 hours ago, borg- said:

Do like me, don't say anything, just kick.

a bit impolite eae

 

5 hours ago, LetswaveaBook said:

The entire idea of having ratings and accounts is undermined by endless smurf accounts. I don't know if going anonymous would be bad. But if the lobby moderators set the rule of no double accounts, then repeatedly breaking the rule is respect-less. Especially since those moderators are volunteers as well.

No. 

Firstly the ratings system is very biased and rarely reflects a player's actual skill. You are an exception because you play mostly 1v1. But the best TG players don't have their skills taken into account. That's why DoctorOrgans(1854) and FUBAR(1795) might get beaten up by NoobDude(1333) or reza-math(1377). So if you want to make ratings system reliable then you should take into account game modes other than just 1v1. Localratings is already better. If localratings can be applied lobby-wide then that would be great. 

Secondly, players don't lose anything very important in making second accounts. In other games like PUBG and CoD, you would lose all of your stats, privileges, unlocked weapons, skins, etc...  But nothing significant is binded to one account apart from a meaningless rating number. The reward of second accounts is much greater than the losses, plus bans are rare, so we see many more accounts. 

The rule has no effect. There is no difficulty nor sanction, so people ignore it. Why should anyone care about an empty rule which is totally useless and few people ever obey? 

Here, if we see a red light, we just check if there are no cars and we just cross. I am often mocked by others for waiting for the green light. 

Rotganger != totganger

 

Edited May 15, 2023 by Yekaterina

[snake]

7 hours ago, borg- said:

I win against the real account

but you can't

 

borg if you are after getting yourself more ratings points, you can make another account, play rated game with yourself, then resign in the other account. do this 20 times and you will be the highest rated ever.

 

[alre]

if someone appeals the rule that forbids second accounts, they cannot be said to be wrong, just because that rule is not sanctioned. I'ts a rule we all agree to every time we join the lobby.

Also if a host doesn't want to play some other accounts, they can refuse to play that other accounts. No one is forced to. By the line of reasoning of @borg-, it's totally right to refuse to play Felixix, and the line of reasoning of Borg is totally legit.

I wouldn't assume that Berhudar is the "real" one though, I would just ask to play with the higher rated account, or unrated.

[snake]

10 minutes ago, alre said:

if someone appeals the rule that forbids second accounts, they cannot be said to be wrong, just because that rule is not sanctioned. I'ts a rule we all agree to every time we join the lobby.

Also if a host doesn't want to play some other accounts, they can refuse to play that other accounts. No one is forced to. By the line of reasoning of @borg-, it's totally right to refuse to play Felixix, and the line of reasoning of Borg is totally legit.

I wouldn't assume that Berhudar is the "real" one though, I would just ask to play with the higher rated account, or unrated.

you are reasonable, I agree

why obssess  over ratings? it gives you any money? just have fun and don't waste time switching accounts

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, snake said:

you are reasonable, I agree

why obssess  over ratings? it gives you any money? just have fun and don't waste time switching accounts

Sometimes people get obsessed with numbers on a screen, be it likes, followers, ratings, etc.

[borg-]

I have the highest rating of all time, without using smurf, mods 

it's obsession with being the best at what you are proposed to do. Rating is just the result of that.

[vinme]

had*

 

[vinme]

On 15/05/2023 at 5:08 PM, Yekaterina said:

@vinme felixix is a well-known user and his rating is approximately accurate. So you should let him play. 

Whether he has access to berhudar or any other account is another story. 

let him? this is a 1v1. you word it as if this is some privilige im withholding from him for no reason at all.
I have full right to play whoever i want, and most importantly, no one has the right to even remotely insinuate me not playing someone for ANY reason, even if i just feel like it is a transgression in any interpretation. 

So you dont get to be the arbiter of my reasonings legitimacy.

[vinme]

On 15/05/2023 at 5:27 PM, alre said:

maybe next time be nicer, like "welcome berhudar, I'd like to game your main account, will you change it? I'm waiting here".

Am I being too weird? 

Its not anybodys responsibility to be nice.
I was perfectly respectful and reasonable, that is all that is required. 
I do find it insulting to demand of me or of anyone active expression of friendliness or prioritization of someones potential feelings. insinutating its a transgression not to so do, and i do find people who do so not respectable. 

[vinme]

On 15/05/2023 at 5:40 PM, rm -rf said:

I would have disconnected when defc0n joined too, rather for my privacy even if it would have been too late.

Else I don't see any value in this thread. Yes felixix is top3 ; we all know that (all except one to be precise)

what is defcon going to do? O_O 

[MarcusAureliu#s]

To be fair if any of "berhudars" accounts has to be considered the "original" account its felixix lol xD

[rossenburg]

8 minutes ago, vinme said:

what is defcon going to do? O_O 

A wise man once said: "Those who live in the shadows, perpetuating their deceit, tremble at the mere thought of the truth's revealing light. In their fragile insecurity, they fear the awakening of a formidable force that will expose their true nature, leaving them vulnerable and stripped of their illusionary power."

[vinme]

21 hours ago, Yekaterina said:

a bit impolite eae

 

No. 

Firstly the ratings system is very biased and rarely reflects a player's actual skill. You are an exception because you play mostly 1v1. But the best TG players don't have their skills taken into account. That's why DoctorOrgans(1854) and FUBAR(1795) might get beaten up by NoobDude(1333) or reza-math(1377). So if you want to make ratings system reliable then you should take into account game modes other than just 1v1. Localratings is already better. If localratings can be applied lobby-wide then that would be great. 

Secondly, players don't lose anything very important in making second accounts. In other games like PUBG and CoD, you would lose all of your stats, privileges, unlocked weapons, skins, etc...  But nothing significant is binded to one account apart from a meaningless rating number. The reward of second accounts is much greater than the losses, plus bans are rare, so we see many more accounts. 

The rule has no effect. There is no difficulty nor sanction, so people ignore it. Why should anyone care about an empty rule which is totally useless and few people ever obey? 

Here, if we see a red light, we just check if there are no cars and we just cross. I am often mocked by others for waiting for the green light. 

Rotganger != totganger

 

Rating can be THE BEST method of measuring skill that we currently have, if you take it  in context.
1.First of all, 0ad is a very small community, every consistent and experienced player 1500+ knows most other players of that rating or higher, either second hand or first hand.
2.The fake rating people, easily get revealed and disregarded, as exceptions, not to the rule, as they faked the rating.
Smurfs get revealed easily, but as they dont have their actual rating you have to estimate.
3.And as for team game only players, they dont play 1v1s, so how can their rating be accurate? you cant blame the rating system for this, i for one would suggest time based rating as a form of controlling for it, making a rating illegitimate if som1 hasnt played a 1v1 inawhile, but i digress.
4.Pretty sure fubar is that guy that only plays weird maps and never participates in anything else, idk much about him, perhaps his rating is faked through multiple accounts.
Doctor is a significantly better player than reza.
team games are completely irrelevant in acertaining ones skill because only 12.5% of variables is based on you, as well as non balanced maps, cooperation variation, and much much more.
5.local rating is pretty much useless from my understanding, but im not well versed in it, wont get into that.
6.Rating system very accurately reflects a players skill, or more so win/loss potential against other players, if the player actively plays 1v1 vs others of similar rating to him, and if he doesnt fake it artificially either by farming lower rated players, or by multiple account rating siphon.
7. i dont care about the rule, i just dont play if the player breaches contract, not that its a particularly relevant thing to me, but even mild relevance warrants action, i have nothing to lose, im not the one causing the problem why play a 2200 on an account that has 2000 points, if its a rated game, on a high level id like to play the main account.
8. Relevance of rating system comes from players who give it relevance through adhering to it or valuing it. Unskilled players often like to delegitimize the rating system as a way to make themselves feel better "im good at tg" , etc. skill in 1v1 directly translates to tg, theres very little one needs to understand to play tg thats not effective in 1v1 but its convenient to convolute the signficance. 
9.The rating system is just a useful tool to keep track of our history of wins/losses, even adjusted by significance via the opponents relative level to us.
its quite effective, therefore, as much as, ones performance history is indicative of ones future potential that is.
10.If one doesnt care about rating, they would never choose to play rated games, or why make smurfs? why refuse to play with original account? 
Rule doesnt have to be enforced by some third party authority, its not a rule for the sake of itself, it has utility for compettetive purposes.

[vinme]

21 hours ago, snake said:

you are reasonable, I agree

why obssess  over ratings? it gives you any money? just have fun and don't waste time switching accounts

why play 0ad? it gives you money? why try to win in TGs or 1v1s? does it give you money? just have fun building a pretty city with 50 farms behind it to make it more realistic and to scale.

[vinme]

20 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Sometimes people get obsessed with numbers on a screen, be it likes, followers, ratings, etc.

clearly rating itself is a mere tool for keeping track of compettition results and aproximating skill.
there are people with a mod that changes rating appearance, like 4000, 2800, etc but no one respects the "number" like that, or people who farm lower rateds, and are shown 1800, but are 1400 at best. Or christopher who is 2047 for 10 years, and no one seriously thinks he anywhere above 1800, if even that.
 

[vinme]

11 hours ago, MarcusAureliu#s said:

To be fair if any of "berhudars" accounts has to be considered the "original" account its felixix lol xD

Highest rated account is real one as far as im concerned, AND we, even you, are calling him "berhudar" not "felixix" ie "if any of BERHUDARS accounts".