techs unlocked after starting research on preceding technology?

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

In 0ad blacksmith for example, you need to wait until ranged damage 1 completes before you click ranged damage 2. I think it would reduce the unnecessary timing requirements if the next tech could be queued before the first has completed, so that it can automatically begin researching after the first is done. Keep in mind that this is not always the best way to get the techs since you would be paying further in advance for the same tech which makes it relatively more expensive, but the advantage would lie in focusing your efforts elsewhere rather than waiting for the first tech to complete and clicking the next one just in time.

What do you think?

[Gurken Khan]

In favor of queuing.

[phosit]

What if the researcher fail to research a technology? Oh... nope... they never fail in the game.

Yep also in favor of queuing. Keep in mind that if there are multiple blacksmith they should not research ranged damage 1 and ranged damage 2 at the same time.

[Grautvornix]

Sorry, and maybe I am wrong, but, as a consequence, wouldn't this apply to many, if not all, tech developments in all buildings? If enabled one could select and queue all techs and just wait until the respective resources were available. Unfortunately, I don't think this is very attractive from the gameplay perspective.

So far new techs were only available for selection once their necessary preconditions are met (researched basics + sufficient resources available). Now if we limit that only to available resources I am afraid the user mightbe tempted to select entire techtree at once and start collecting resources. Please advise!

Thank you very much!

Best regards,
Grautvornix

 

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

@Grautvornix you would have to have the resources available, unlike autoqueue for units. So you would still actually spend the resources when you click the upgrade if it is behind its precursor.

Edited April 15, 2023 by BreakfastBurrito_007

[chrstgtr]

I see zero downside to this. 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I guess if you're an Uber Twitch gamer, this all makes sense.

For the 90% of players who play single player, they're gonna wonder why tech B is now available if the required tech A isn't even done yet. Dunno, perhaps that's just inertia talking since that's just how most (all?) rtses have done it in the past.

[chrstgtr]

58 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I guess if you're an Uber Twitch gamer, this all makes sense.

For the 90% of players who play single player, they're gonna wonder why tech B is now available if the required tech A isn't even done yet. Dunno, perhaps that's just inertia talking since that's just how most (all?) rtses have done it in the past.

Can't you just make it shaded like the way queued units are now? That introduced nothing new

[hyperion]

One could make a case that easier means one less item where players can make a difference to their peers. I don't particularly care here.

 

If you add this then the question how the handle other "conveniences" such as cancel / pause / reorder not just theoretically but with an intuitive UI needs an answer.

[Yekaterina]

19 hours ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

What do you think?

I think you can add a blacksmith autotrain option. But note that some people don't always want to research the next tech immediately after it is available; there might be more urgent places to spend resources.

[borg-]

And also please, can click to research a technology before the building is ready. As soon as it finishes, it automatically starts searching.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

3 hours ago, Helicity said:

I think you can add a blacksmith autotrain option. But note that some people don't always want to research the next tech immediately after it is available; there might be more urgent places to spend resources.

Well it wouldn't need to be autotrain the way it exists for units. You would just click twice and the next upgrade would appear in green (already purchased) in queue behind the first clicked tech. As for the benefits and drawbacks I already discussed it in topic and I agree that it won't always be the best option.

Edited April 16, 2023 by BreakfastBurrito_007

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

13 hours ago, borg- said:

And also please, can click to research a technology before the building is ready. As soon as it finishes, it automatically starts searching.

Please, add a meta feature where can decide all 100 first clicks ahead of time.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

@wowgetoffyourcellphone talk to @Atrik about that, his level of automation is quite interesting. I would argue that this change gives the players more choices as the optimal choice depends on what is going on, because the player has the choice of clicking it as soon as its available and affordable or waiting to see if they time it better to save a small amount of resources or click a different upgrade first. One choice is quick and dirty, the other is more efficient but management-heavy. I like to think of this as being a step in the opposite direction of automation.

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

23 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

@wowgetoffyourcellphone talk to @Atrik about that, his level of automation is quite interesting. I would argue that this change gives the players more choices as the optimal choice depends on what is going on, because the player has the choice of clicking it as soon as its available and affordable or waiting to see if they time it better to save a small amount of resources or click a different upgrade first. One choice is quick and dirty, the other is more efficient but management-heavy. I like to think of this as being a step in the opposite direction of automation.

 

I just feel like y'all are getting really deep into the weeds here, attempting to optimize the game for your own processes. I'm always open to try new features though, so I look forward to a patch.  

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

Well I agree it’s not that deep. I was just trying to counter the idea that this is somehow automating the game.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Few automations are missing from the game.

 

 

Perhaps how to better self-manage farms.

 

Auto explore

 

 

It would be excellent to be able to do some automation when boarding ships.

[Atrik]

On 15/04/2023 at 5:28 PM, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

the advantage would lie in focusing your efforts elsewhere rather than waiting for the first tech to complete and clicking the next one just in time.

I think like you @BreakfastBurrito_007, I like to get more free time to manage units for: Building stuff; Micro units for Battle; Plan Eco.

 

On 15/04/2023 at 5:28 PM, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

In 0ad blacksmith for example, you need to wait until ranged damage 1 completes before you click ranged damage 2. I think it would reduce the unnecessary timing requirements if the next tech could be queued before the first has completed,

The feature you describe for queuing techs I wanted it too  I have something resembling that in proGUI: the added forge menu let you select what techs to queue automatically when the resources and a forge are available.

You have the same for eco techs.

This menu comes as an overlay, not in the native's game forge building menu. The benefit of it, is that is doesn't change any of your game reflexes, but adds new possibilities.

Also if queuing of higher tier techs in the native GUI would be exactly like @BreakfastBurrito_007 described, you'll (very probably) still have to lock resource in order to queue it. So all of these design choices are actually more tricky then it seems.

[Atrik]

9 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Few automations are missing from the game.

 

 

Perhaps how to better self-manage farms.

 

Auto explore

 

 

It would be excellent to be able to do some automation when boarding ships.

https://gitlab.com/4trik/proGUI/ for stuff like queuing research, I made it very customizable to automate or not what you want. (no OSS online)
https://gitlab.com/mentula0ad/FieldManager from @Mentula mod for managing farms (no OSS online)
https://0ad.old.mod.io/better-scouting-mod from "Justus_Avramenko" (sorry I don't know his forum name) mod for some scouting perks (may OSS online)

Edited April 17, 2023 by Atrik

[Atrik]

Ponies Ascendant mod : https://0ad.old.mod.io/ponies-ascendant

Edited April 17, 2023 by Atrik

[LetswaveaBook]

3 hours ago, Atrik said:

https://0ad.old.mod.io/better-scouting-mod from "Justus_Avramenko" (sorry I don't know his forum name) mod for some scouting perks (may OSS online)

@wowgetoffyourcellphone probably knows.

[Lion.Kanzen]

5 hours ago, Atrik said:

https://gitlab.com/4trik/proGUI/ for stuff like queuing research, I made it very customizable to automate or not what you want. (no OSS online)
https://gitlab.com/mentula0ad/FieldManager from @Mentula mod for managing farms (no OSS online)
https://0ad.old.mod.io/better-scouting-mod from "Justus_Avramenko" (sorry I don't know his forum name) mod for some scouting perks (may OSS online)

I was just thinking of the field manager.

I did not know the scouting mod.