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Today I started creating a gameplay mod for the current (svn) development version of 0 A.D. “Empires Ascendant”. Although there are already multiple gameplay mods, and the aim of improving gameplay for the next alpha is not unique, this one has a different approach: each change has its own patch on https://code.wildfiregames.com/, to make it easier for the team to discuss, play-test, review, and implement them. Open gameplay balance patches available on phabricator (can also be found withhttps://code.wildfiregames.com/search/query/MwAW9pins9Vt/ ): D3565: Make all support units bribable. D3563: Make theater cheaper. D3528: Bring turnRate back to realism. D3523: Bring projectile speeds to realistic values. D3488: Lower unit movement speed. D3487: Unify unit vision range. D3486: Lower soldier vision range. D3466: Make wall turrets upgrade into proper towers. D3431: Increase ram damage D3418: Purge Battlefield Medicine. D3417: Balance pike again. D3416: Fix unlock shared dropsites requirement. D3407: Add food/researchtime cost to reformed_army / traditional_army. D3404: Make gather technologies less effective. D3392: New kush civ bonus. D3390: New cart market civ bonus. D3377: Enable cart basic infantry javelineer. D3341: Move some trainable animals to higher phases. D3319: Differentiate rams. D3318: Move will to fight technology from fortress to wonder. D3246: Increase advanced and elite and lower champion ranged attack damage. D2988: Replace corral technology. D2965: Separate chariot templates. D2956: Tweak ship costs and tweak merchant ships. D2900: Separate camels from cavalry templates. D2886: Introduce crossbowman templates. D2854: Introduce centre tech progression. D2845: Change phase bonuses. D2769: Add visible garrison points to wall towers. D2648: Make Caratacos and Maximus auras local. D2535: Remove pop cap civ bonuses. D2508: Prevent ships and siege engines from attacking fields. D2506: Allow building fields in neutral territory. D2477: Garrison units on short wall segments. D1400: Hero aura revision. D1351: Reduce cavalry gather rate. D904: Themistocle aura 1 modify. D497: Allow hunting aggressive and violent wild animals. D76: Revisit Vision (and Ranged Attack) ranges. Abandoned: Tagging everyone listed in the `balancing.json` credits file: @Acumen, @Alex, @Alexandermb, @Allen ROBOT, @alpha123, @arissa_nightblade, @bb_, @borg-, @Deiz, @elexis, @fatherbushido, @Feldfeld, @Freagarach, @Grugnas, @Hannibal_Barca, @historic_bruno, @LordGood, @Matei, @mimo, @Mythos_Ruler, @Nescio, @niektb, @Pureon, @quantumstate, @sanderd17, @scythetwirler, @Stan`, @temple, @ValihrAnt, @Wijitmaker, @wraitii. Please refrain from discussing individual changes in this forum thread; go to corresponding phabricator page instead (click on the links in the list above). To try out individual changes, just include the corresponding patch in your repository (e.g. `arc patch D888`; and `svn revert -R *` to remove them again). If you know of other small, up-to-date patches (only gameplay balancing, not art, maps, mechanics, etc.), feel free to propose them for inclusion in this list. Other feedback is also welcome.

@LetswaveaBook's mod showed us a few things about balancing, in particular across civs. One thing that I thought was great from this mod was allowing persians to train both spear and skrim cav during p1. Currently pers are basically only good in the very late game, and if you want to do a p2 archercav rush. I think it would reaffirm pers as a cavalry civ and a good/decent rushing civ. It would also bring more benefit to the stables which used to be persia's unique building. Thoughts?

There has been some discussion about implementing attack ground, and I think we should go ahead and decide if this should be implemented for A26. I have no idea about the implementation process. Currently there seems to remain a need to design a graphic to display for the attack-ground radius, I imagine the mouse scroll wheel and using the existing radius for towers and forts might work fairly well. the graphic would probably only be needed when executing the attack ground command, for example when holding 'A' for a group of ranged units. Perhaps there could also be a hud element for attack ground alongside patrol, garrison, and delete. I think more players are beginning to realize what benefits this could bring to the game. Reasons for Attack-Ground: allow players with ranged units to attack significantly beyond an amount of melee units. "silent nerf" for pikes (as opposed to reducing armor, which would basically make them bad again) "silent buff": for units with higher range (ie archers, which are considered weak, primarily because their range benefits are hampered by their limitation to shooting closer units) Reducing Overkill: Allows players with ranged units to better allocate their damage high pierce units will have even less overkill Overkill seems to be calculation-heavy, might even reduce lag if many players use this. In general: adds more creativity, balance, and skill to fights involving ranged units. Attack ground: id like to test this in more realistic situations to see if it has the benefits I outlined above. Here is a video posted by @Freagarach a few months ago. I could test this with a group if it became a mod. Could I get an idea of how favorable people see this for A26?

What is it This mod lets you play alpha 23b balance in alpha 25 Download a23_balance_for_25.pyromod a23_balance_for_25.zip Why? I like alpha 25 but I like 23b balance better. Source code public repository https://github.com/nanihadesuka/a23_balance_for_25

Let's Fight 0 A.D. is an open-source RTS game (https://play0ad.com/) Let's Fight is a 0 A.D. gameplay balance mod for Alpha 24 (Xšayāršā) Motivation Currently the meta of Alpha 24 is skewed towards turtling via walls, towers, and forts. This problem is exacerbated by the advantage that archers, units that already have high range, have over other ranged units. This mod aims to provide gameplay that is more rewarding for aggressive players and roughly equalize the strength of civilizations to allow for a greater variety of strategies. In particular, there is an emphasis on encouraging players to utilize different strategies depending on the civilization and situation of the game. Several balance changes in this mod were based on discussions in the "Gameplay Discussion" and "Balancing Discussions" sub-forums. Installation Drag and drop the pyromod file over the 0ad start icon or open the pyromod file with pyrogenesis.exe The mod will be downloaded and you will be taken to the "Mod Selection" page (if not, then click "Settings" -> "Mod Selection") Click on the "letsfight" mod in the "Available Mods" and click "Enable" in the bottom left Click "Save Configuration" in the bottom right Click "Start Mods" in the bottom right If you have an older version, go to your local mods folder (https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/GameDataPaths) and delete all other versions of the mod before downloading a different version If you're still having trouble, see https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Modding_Guide#Howtoinstallmods Updates Thanks to the 0ad community for their feedback. Some people have had questions about the changes or wondered about the justifications. The reasoning behind each change is placed in brackets behind each bullet point. v0.2.3 Gave auras to Chandragupta Maurya and Agis III Buffs to auras of Pericles, Arakamani, and Alexander III Increase damage of melee infantry and cavalry [Thanks @borg] Decrease armor of pikeman [Thanks @borg] Increase crush damage of catapults [Thanks @maroder] Fixed fortress, civic centre, and military colony minimum distance [Thanks @Nescio] Limit of 1 fortress and 10 towers for each civic centre [Thanks @Nescio] Group armor of buildings based on economic, civic and military, and defensive classes [Thanks @Nescio] New stable technology for Britons to increase vision range of war dogs Buff to team bonus of Britons All Changes Thoughts, Comments, Suggestions? Discuss! I've tested this mod against the AI, but the best results are from real players. Try some games with other players and then let me know what changes you liked and disliked. Feel free to make other suggestions that you would like to see in this mod after testing it out. letsfight_v0.2.2.pyromod letsfight_v0.2.1.pyromod letsfight_v0.2.pyromod letsfight_v0.1.pyromod letsfight_v0.2.3.pyromod

A24 was released a few weeks ago and development of A25 started with 24939. The purpose of this thread is to keep track of what patches that affect gameplay or balance are proposed or committed for the next release (A25), as this thread did for the previous (A24). Please refrain from discussing individual patches here. The correct place for that is on Phabricator ( https://code.wildfiregames.com/ ). Each entry (below) has a link to the relevant page. All open gameplay patches can also be found with https://code.wildfiregames.com/search/query/MwAW9pins9Vt/

Forum discussions are nice and all, and there is certainly no shortage of good ideas, however, what matters is how things work out in game. Because using the development version and applying patches is challenging for many, I've decided to bundle several related patches proposed for A25 as a mod for A24. Their purpose is to address the frequent complaint that defensive structures are too effective in A24 and therefore attacking is too difficult. The eight patches included here are: https://code.wildfiregames.com/D2845 https://code.wildfiregames.com/D2854 https://code.wildfiregames.com/D3601 https://code.wildfiregames.com/D3602 https://code.wildfiregames.com/D3668 https://code.wildfiregames.com/D3672 https://code.wildfiregames.com/D3684 https://code.wildfiregames.com/D3686 I sincerely believe each of them is an improvement on its own and also that they work nicely in combination with each other. Nevertheless, I'm biased by my own ideas and different people may have different opinions, of course. Hence this mod, to broaden the audience and have more people play and test. Feedback is appreciated, especially from people who've played at least several games with it. Anyway, here it is: balancing_defensive_structures.zip I've also uploaded it to mod.io to make it available via the in-game mod downloader, but I'm not sure it's working (@Itms?): https://0ad.mod.io/balancing-defensive-structures

X marks the spot 2v2v2v2 or 4v4 - Grapjas This map has been included in my mod with features as position randomnization, obstruction templates, and custom iber defense setup (on start of the game). Download here New mod: Grapejuice - Game Modification - Wildfire Games Community Forums

Let me preface this with; I am aware that the team is not focused on balance right now, but I feel like this needs to be pointed out anyways. The Ptolemies are one of the, if not THE, worst faction in the game at the moment. This is due in half to how the game has been programmed, and half how the roster has been created, and I'll cover both issues. First, as has been discussed in the thread about revamping all the animations: The Diadochi kindgoms are at a disadvantage economically compared to other civs, because pikemen move slower than all other infantry, and thus are not as efficient at gathering resources. This is especially hurtful to the Ptolemies and Macedon. Both of their starter infantry units are pikes. The Diadochi are also suffering due to pikes just sucking in combat (formations are not functioning atm) and again for the Ptolemies and Macedon, this is incredibly painful as they don't get access to non-pike units until later in the match. (It isn't an issue for the Seleucids, as they have easy access to the Thueros Spear from the beginning of the match). Now to the Ptolemaic-specific issue. They start with a pike, and a mercenary skirmisher. This means to jump start their economy, or to defend against a rush, they must gather metal as well as food and wood, which in the early game can put them much farther behind than other factions, who only need food and wood until they age up. Even with the barracks built, all the Ptolemaic infantry besides their pikes are mercenaries, which require a third resource, which then put even more strain on the Ptolemaic economy. Stone and Iron are can become hotly contested during a match, and a player might be cut off from their supply of stone or iron. Every other faction can fall back on their starter units and still create some semblance of a balanced army, but the Ptolemaics cannot. It would be camels and pikes. Thats it. A fix for this would be to not make their starter ranged unit a mercenary. If I remember correctly, they used to have Nubian or Numidian bows as their starter ranged, which was scrapped due to historical inaccuracy. And while it is true that basically all of the Ptolemaic army was mercenaries, I believe this is one of the instances where gameplay needs to be precedent to accuracy. Possibly a Greek settler unit, or another native auxiliary. But imho the Ptolemaics NEED to have a non-merc ranged starter unit.

Vox Populi - An Introduction This mod tries to address the main "weaknesses" of the current release: it aims to balance "op/up" units, it adjusts technologies and introduces some variety along the way As the name implies (Vox Populi = Voice of the People) , this mod is open to all suggestions of the 0 A.D. community and there is a high chance that if several "known" players agree on a suggestion, it could be added in here. Supported by a moderator and developer, the features of this mod - if found good - stand a great chance at entering the next release, perhaps even more so than some other balance mods. Anyway, I'm sure you all wouldn't like to read 349 paragraphs about why, what, where etc.. so I'll list the changes this mod brings (hopefully to 0 A.D. Alpha 23) NEW - Kushite civilization! (Differences from 22.1_KD) Replaced unfitting heroes with Nastasen and Arakamani Added Ptolemaic Trireme to be trainable - requires Nastasen hero Reduced Village Phase unit selection Righted the mix up of temples, now can separately build both Amun and Apedemak temples. - Amun temple is more expensive but offers unique technologies and a greater garrison number - at a cost. Mercenaries are promotable: made rank 2 and 3 actors for Clubmen -- placeholder, waiting for better others just keep actor but promote Vision Citizen-solider infantry base vision 50. (Maximum: 70) Citizen-Soldier cavalry base vision 55. (Maximum: 75) Champion infantry vision 75. Champion cavalry & Infantry heroes' vision 85. War elephants' vision & Cavalry heroes' vision 90. Elephant heroes' vision 95. All siege 90 vision except the Siege Tower's 100. Healers & Women base vision 25. (Maximum:45) Traders & Worker Elephants base vision 30. (Maximum: 50) Fishing ships base vision 10. (Maximum: 30) Merchant ships base vision 40. (Maximum: 50) Fire ships base vision 40. (Maximum: 50) Biremes and Triremes base vision 80. (Maximum: 90) Quinqueremes vision 100. Run speed adjusted to be reduced by same amount as Walk Speed. Players have long complained that such high vision is unrealistic and that it should be lowered. Attack Ranges & Movement Speed Archer units maximum attack range reduced by 4. Archer units gain +10 attack range per phase, slinger units +6. All units start with only 80% of original movement speed. Town Phase gives +10%, City Phase +14% Citizen Soldiers Cavalry rework Sword, spear and skirmisher cavalry have all been reworked. Based on tests so far: Sword Cavalry > Spear Cavalry > Skirmisher Cavalry > Sword Cavalry Ptolemaic camel units now inflict a 20% attack penalty on all cavalry (including allied) within a 40m range. Spear Cavalry 2s attack rate, attack reworked to suit the new values. Citizen-soldier archers' maximum movement speed increased to 10. NEW - Elite Seleucid Bronze Shield Pikemen now need 250XP to promote to Champion Silver Shield Pikemen Unit loot increases with rank. Elite units' stats improved slightly. Citizen-soldier cavalry capture rate decreased to 1, increase of only 10% hp per rank (instead of 20%). Logically, cavalry should have a lower capture rate than infantry. Champions All cavalry champions' capture attack reduced to 4. Archer champions' attack range decreased by 4. Skirmisher Chariot Champions now have 320HP and +2 pierce attack but require 2 population. Spear Cavalry Champions retain the 1.25x counter vs. other cavalry, likewise the 3 second attack rate. Gauls - Naked Fanatic pierce attack increased by 2. Heroes Carthaginians Hamilcar's 2nd aura: As you all probably have figured by now, Hamilcar is not a "useful" hero (giving only +15% speed compared to the attack bonuses of Marhabal & Hannibal) Thus, a new aura has been created (based on historical facts) which decreases enemy mercenary attack values by 20%. Persians Darius I's movement speed bonus aura increased from 10% to 15%. Romans Scipio's aura range increased from 10 meters to 30. Technologies NEW - Unique technologies for each civilization. (current goal is 1/civilization - incomplete, feel free to suggest) 2 new technologies at the Civic Centre, affecting both movement speed and health respectively. Artillery Instructors: Siege weapons cost 20% less wood This technology now costs: 500 food, 250 stone, 250 metal instead of the original 500 metal. Unlock Spies: All support units may now be bribed, not only traders. Mounts: Unlock village phase cavalry, researchable for 100F 100W 50M at the Corral. Mounts icon changed, now uses a portrait imported from Delenda Est. 2nd redundant tech replaced with an autoresearched one - at the cost of a warning message when using the Structure Tree Domestic animals base train time doubled, added new technology "Husbandry" for -15% train time and moved Stockbreeding to the Town Phase with maintained -25%. Blacksmith features new Specialization technologies Hero armor tech split up into mounted and infantry ones, now supersedes infantry and cavalry armor upgrades respectively. Stoa technology added as fitting the Royal Stoa's functions - Price Control: +15% market barter values. Wall Tower technologies added, first may shoot arrows then bolts. Carthage Colonisation technology (500W 500M) now affects Civic Structures (Civil Centre, Temples, Houses) by reducing their cost instead of -25% build time. Structures NEW - Stables Stables now available for all civs like for the persians currently. Unlock champion units technology moved to fortress as a consequence. All civilizations have received a new animal trainable from the Corral, this new addition is the Chicken, for all civilisations. Ships The Ptolemaic Juggernaut now costs only 5 population instead of the original 8. Siege Siege Towers' maximum arrow limit increased to 15. Some changes by @Grugnas were incorporated. Support Healers now cost 200 food. Trade Trade income was re-balanced based on suggestions by @Nescio Incorporated several features of the Pro Balance Mod (by @user1) https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/22798-pro-balance-modconcept-please-test/ GUI Changes Panels now showing Vox Populi mod name with version. Lobby title says "Multiplayer Lobby (Using Vox Populi) - to avoid players forgetting they are using the mod and joining a vanilla game. Download Here!!! vox_populi_22.1.3.zip lightweight edition (for balance and testing purposes) vox_populi_22.1.2_lightweight.zip Installation Instructions: Extract this zip file into the mods folder. The correct folder depends on your operating system. Windows replace USERNAME with your windows login name. Vista or newer C:\Users\USERNAME\Documents\My Games\0ad\mods\ XP / 2000 C:\Documents and Settings\USERNAME\My Documents\My Games\0ad\mods\ OS X ~/Library/Application\ Support/0ad/mods/ Note: "~" is a shorthand for the current user directory. Linux ~/.local/share/0ad/mods/ Note: "~" is a shorthand for the current user directory. -------------------- Changelog 22.0.1 - base version 22.0.2 - Rabbits fixed, infantry archer champion speed increased to 13 to stay constant with citizen-soldier infantry archers. 22.0.3 - Trade nerf fix, vision rework based on suggestions by @elexis and @Grugnas 22.0.4 - Rabbits removed, cavalry rework, attack range and movement speed rework +++ 22.0.5 - Trade fix (based on suggestions by @Nescio), Skirmisher Champion Chariots rebalanced. 22.0.6 - 2 new CC techs, 2nd cavalry tech fix, new icons, new corral tech, increased training time for domestic animals, ++ 22.0.7 - Specialization technologies, hero armor technology rework, new stoa technology 22.0.8 - Wall Turret rework, new technologies first to unlock arrows then bolts. 22.0.9 - Unit loot increases with rank, cavalry only +10% hp/rank, some minor adjustments to elite bonus and spear champion cavalry. 22.1- Kushites added, seleucid pikemen can promote to champions 22.1.1 - Kushite hero rework, error fixes, reduced Village Phase unit selection 22.1.2 - Kushites: Temple rework and differentiation, mercenary fix 22.1.3 - Unique civ-specific technologies, hero abilities, stables added

This will be a project to carefully document with as much detail as possible what is being changed in the Borg gameplay Mod offered for download on mod.io New Balance. New Technology Trees. New Bonus. New Auras. New Units. New Buildings and much more. All of these changes need to be enumerated and tracked, as this mod or parts of it may end up being rolled into a future release of 0ad Alpha (vanilla). This is being done so that current vanilla 0ad players can make informed decisions about how to adapt current strategy to these significant changes should any or all of these changes make it into the next or some subsequent Alpha release. The approach will be, first, to communicate the changes from the actual experience of playing the Mod against the AI, to second, loading the mod into the Eclipse IDE and finding the actual changes that are being made and clearly enumerating what they are. For the purposes of clarity, I will as much as possible list what the current stat of a unit or tech is in the current release, and then what the new values are in the mod. This will give the players complete transparency on the changes. Phase One: Apparent Changes from actual GamePlay Test One - Britons against the AI on Oasis 1. CC has been changed - cannot train citizen soldiers, only women. (need to verify if this is the same for all civs now) Concerns: Training male unit types in the CC was not the same for each civ - so this is a very significant change that is effecting each civ in a non-uniform way. Must now build three different buildings to get the same type of units out that were available in the CC before this change. Barracks produce Melee units, Archery Range produces ranged units, Stable produces Cav units. Please note that all three of these unit types were previously able to be produced by the CC. 2. Two new techs in CC - "Siege Rations" and "Peasant Laborers" ( will need to find and enumerate in IDE) & (need to verify if this is the same for all civs in game) - "Siege Rations" described in game as "+5 Health for all organic units" cost is 500 food time is 20 seconds - "Peasant Laborers" described in game as -10% build time for all structures cost is 100 food time is 20 seconds Concerns: Do all civs build structures at the same speed? If not, if the civs that build structures at a faster speed research "Peasant Laborers" early in the build order, they will now have a massive advantage over those that don't and have slower build times. (need more data) 3, Wardog Kennel now build-able in Age 1 Concerns: This gives what is already considered an OP civ in vanilla the ability to harass early resource gathering of opponents. 5 war dogs plus the starting dog for Brits is a significant capability. The cost for these dogs is only food, women have a bonus for gathering food. Not really sure why this is being moved from Age 2 to Age 1. Test Two - Persians against the AI on Oasis 1. Persian stables now the same as stables for all other civs- there was a differentiation in a24, where as - all other civs built barracks only, but Persians could build both barracks and stables. Concerns: Unique attribute of the Persian civ has been affected, perhaps unintentionally. (need more data) Test Three - Seleucids vs AI on Oasis 1. Elephant Stables can now be built to produce elephants. There is no limit on the amount of these stables that can be built. Elephant Stables significantly cheaper and faster to produce than Fort. Concerns: The ability to make Elephant Stables is a unique Mauryan tech in a24, giving this to other civs negates that unique tech. The "Elephant Stables" are significantly cheaper to make than the Fort (in a24, Seleucids must build a fort to train Elephants), and forts are limited to 10. This means Seleucids can now produce more elephants much faster (this needs much more investigation, will be testing the addition of Elephant Stables extensively in the coming days) - (need to carefully investigate all elephant producing civs in both a24 and borgmod) (to be updated as I make progress)

This simple mod wants to modify the current alpha 22 version balance in a "conservative" way with no use of any counter system as long as units in the current version already have different attributes and this concept tries to stay away from a massive use of hard and soft counters. The patch isn't finished since technologies aren't included yet but they will surely included in the next release of this patch as long as can I do some tests first. Why did i publish this mod? I think that the intent to introduce soft and hard counters by setting the attributes of all units with a given value then add counter bonuses is time spending and the result would be partially the same as simply tweaking the already existing values with the difference that the latter requires less effort, it is more polished and doesn't remove the "realism" factor like light armored units being faster than heavier equipped soldiers. A counter system requires the player to remember the bonuses and the weakness of each unit against each unit. As long as it is a mod, here will be implemented new features and units / structures rearrangement. Newest Version: Monkey Wrench 22.1.4.3! Download You can download the mod here: Changelog: 22.1.2: monkey_wrench_22.2.zip 22.1.3.1: monkey_wrench_22.1.3.1.zip 22.1.4.1: monkey_wrench_22.1.4.1.zip 22.1.4.2: monkey_wrench_22.1.4.2.zip 22.1.4.3: monkey_wrench_22.1.4.3.zip Installation Drag and drop the content of the .zip archivie in one of the folders listed below depending on your operative system. Vista or newer: C:\Users\USERNAME\Documents\My Games\0ad\mods\ XP / 2000: C:\Documents and Settings\USERNAME\My Documents\My Games\0ad\mods\ OS X: ~/Library/Application\ Support/0ad/mods/ Linux: ~/.local/share/0ad/mods/ from https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/GameDataPaths Launch 0AD and click on Tools & Options -> Mod Selection then select the mod Monkey Wrench from the list of the Available Mods and click Enable, Save Configuration and Start Mods. At this point the mod is ready to be played. What Does it Changes? Units Now citizen soldiers loot increases with rank. Woman training time increased to 10 Elephant Worker Now can build basic civic structures and research economy technologies. Cavalry Citizen Solzier Increased training time to 16. Capture Rate decreased from 2 to 1. Ranged Cavalry base HP decreased from 120 to 100. Melee Cavalry base HP decreased from 160 to 150. Decreased Vision Range to 50. NEW! Barracks removes the limit of 1 Cavalry only. NEW! gain more Vision Range per phase. Spear Cost increased by 5 wood. Now has 1.25x bonus damage against Cavalry class. Attack rate decreased from 3.5 seconds to 3.0. Movement speed decreased from 22 to 20. Sword Cost increased by 5 wood. Movement speed increased from 20 to 21. Javelin Attack Max Range reduced from 28 to 24. Archer Attack Max Range reduced from 72 to 60. Champion Capture Rate decreased from 5 to 4. Ranged Cavalry base HP decreased from 270 to 180. Reduced training time to 32. Spear Now has 1.25x bonus damage against Cavalry class. Attack rate decreased from 3.5 seconds to 3.0. Movement speed decreased from 25 to 23. Sword Pierce Armor reduced from 7 to 6. Movement speed increased from 23 to 24. Javelin Iberian unit Crush damage increased from 13 to 18. Iberian unit Pierce damage increased from 5 to 18. Archer Pierce damage decreased to 12 Infantry Citizen Solzier Decreased Vision Range to 40. NEW! gain more Vision Range per phase. Javelin Attack Max Range reduced from 24 to 20. Pierce damage decreased to 15. Slinger Attack Max Range reduced from 42 to 40. Pierce damage decreased to 9. Archer Attack Max Range reduced from 72 to 60. Pierce damage decreased to 5. Champion Reduced training time to 24. Sword Mauryan Yoddha Crush damage increased from 10.5 to 11. Mauryan Yoddha Hack and Pierce armor increasedfrom 6 to 7. Javelin Pierce damage decreased to 24. Archer Attack Max Range reduced to 6. Siege Bolt Shooter Included fixing patch for a bug that allowed bolt shooters to deal more damage than intended. Decreased pierce damage from 150 to 130. Decreased crush damage from 25 to 10. Decreased splash pierce damage from 75 to 65. Decreased splash crush damage from 10 to 5. Increased training time from 20 seconds to 25. Siege Tower Decreased training time from 60 seconds to 40. Decreased Crush damage from 2.5 to 2. Now has attack minimum range of 8.0 . Support Healer Reduced cost from 250 food to 200 food. Reduced xp required from 200 to 150 from Basic to Advanced. Structure Civic Center Increased Vision Range from 90 to 100. Barracks Now they cost some stone for any civ. Embassy Limit increased from 2 to 3. Now all embassies have same cost and build time. Military Colony Removed the max arrow limit. Sentry Tower Decreased Vision Range to 75. Attack Max Range decreased to 72. Defense Tower Decreased Vision Range to 80. Attack Max Range decreased to 78. Outpost Decreased Vision Range to 70. Fortress reduced batch time multiplier from 0.8 to 0.7. Wall Towers Now can't be garrisoned. Technology Blacksmith armour and attack technologies have been revisited. Iron Hero Armour removed the effect +50 metal cost for heroes. NEW! Now this technologies reduces hero training time by 20%. Houses: REMOVED! Home Garden NEW! Pair Tech: Home Garden: Increases houses garrison limit from 3 to 4 and big houses limit from 6 to 8 Increases by 20% the population limit given by houses Home Harem: -50% training time for women trained from houses. Increases by 20% the population limit given by houses Elephant Stable Now the elephant stable is buildable in village phase. Farmstead Grainfields gather technologies increase from 15% -> 15 -> 50% to 25 % -> 25% -> 25% Storehouse Wood/stone/metal gather technologies increase from 15% -> 15 -> 50% to 25 % -> 25% -> 25% Library NEW! Improved Siege Tower Defense tower technology "Crenellations" affects also siege tower. Defense tower technology "Arrow Shooters" affects also siege tower. Defense tower technology "Murder Holes" affects also siege tower. Defense tower technology "Sturdy Foundations" affects also siege tower. Fortress / Siege Workshop Armor plating Now increases also Crush and Pierce armor by 2 levels. Hero Athene Themistocle NEW! Now Naval Commander aura globally affects units trainable in docks. Gauls Brennus Metal loot increased from 15 to 20. Rome Fabius Maximus Now the aura has a 60 mts range. Scipio Aura range increaed from 10 to 60. Seleucid Anthiucus the Great Now the aura has a 60 mts range. Ptolemies Cleopatra Consort aura range increased from 30 to 45. Civ Bonus Athene NEW! The bonus is limited to infantry citizen soldiers only. Carthage NEW! Now Carthage can research a technology to upgrade mercenaries to Elite rank. Team Bonus Rome The bonus is limited to infantry citizen soldiers only. Enjoy the few changes.

(tl;dr in the end.) Hey! I just bring this discussion to the forum and to the players. That has been discussed before, the last time I recall, here. I think that a game that can be win with an only strategy is not fun. (who haves more ranged cav.) I know that everybody have is perfect game in mind, the devs can't please everybody. But, some of us love discussing this kind of things and give our opinion, so a little more of spam about game design won't hurt, if it's polite. Some arguments of the devs patch discussion: I think that you can still be a competitive player and and enjoy doing the right strategy and tactic, having fun. I don't think that competition and fun are a disjunctive, (although I know that a high competitive scene can kill the game, a good basis of that can be a good attraction to players). I restarted to play multiplayer this days, and I played a few, and seems that the cav skirmish rush it's very unbeatable. Correct me if I'm wrong because my biased low numbers of games, there's a way to counter that strategy? If yes, I would rethink all. A. Possible counters with the actual design 1) Towers seems that when cav skirmishers gain a critical mass, doesn't kill them because the spread of the arrows. Is there a way to make the arrows like the aoe2? They are fired independent? Also, they don't work well if you have to cover to much territory, because the mobility of the cav skirmishers. This is a good design IMO cause the early role (for me) of the cav skirmishers should attack weak points. Solution proposal 1: Fix the spread of the arrows of the towers, add a bonus of them against ranged cav. 2) Melee infantry should stay as it is, I think. 3) Ranged infantry gets killed by the superior HP of the cav. But, by the way, It's cost effective against them? I don't have the numbers. In Total War, ranged infantry counters ranged cav (big target, against small target, but maybe that doesn't stand historicity and it's just a gameplay decision) Solution proposal 2: Make cheaper ranged infantry, or more expensive the cav skirmishers (in resources or in population) or add a bonus of ranged infantry against ranged cav (or both) My opinion would be that the cost are fine. Maybe a population increase. Although in scheme I would give them a bonus, first I know that you don't like hard counters, and second, if ranged infantry is very useful against cav skirmishers (and every civ has them), would make them obsolete and people would just train back ranged infantry. Don't like this solution. B. Changing cav skirmishers (and cav archers) I think that harassing should be possible, even a way to victory, but has to be balanced to have a viable strategy to counter them. Nerfing the cav skirmishers stats shoudn't make them unusable the rest of the game. The patch proposes disabling the training of the unit in the CC. As other proposals, this change is a retardant of the ability to training them (having corrals, the need of a specific tech, an upgrade in the barracks, etc.). This will work only if enough breath is created to make others strategy viable. But having them on the barracks, delays with a good time and price the ability to make them, and makes you choose between making cav skirmishers and rush, or train c/s for wood booming (and defending). Also t delays the food booming of hunting or corrals. I'm strong in favour with this. You still have cav skirmishers in phase I to do that. And a explorer unit could be created, with the skirmisher skin, but without the javelins props (with a low limit, or without it) for training in the CC (and without gathering meat capacity?) I agree in the viability thing of the unit, as I said it before. I don't have an opinion on the accuracy, but maybe nerfing that makes them unviable. It depens on numbers. Also, an direct way of nerfing them, and for me it have a degree of realism (maybe I'm wrong), it's to make them unable of herding. I don't see mounted people taking food from sheeps. Although maybe hunting is the same (you need stealth skills), I think that have cav hunting have some fun and maybe it hasn't to be removed. C. Introducing a new counter (Cav swordmen) Having the cav skirmishers and their natural counter be able to train in the same time, it's just a necessity. Right now, by stats, isn't the cav swordmen the designed counter? (and one of the most available units for most civs?) Having the possibility of choose, maybe lead to a breath in the soft-counter system, giving more sense to train spearmen, and then swordmen or ranged infantry to counter the spears. But where they would train, the two in the CC? This proposal would be paired with the disabling of the training in the CC of the cav skirmishers. So a tl;dr of solutions or proposals: You can take them all, you can take one, or you can't take anyone at all: -Towers: 1) fix spread 2) add a counter bonus against ranged cav -Ranged infantry: 3) Change cost and/or population of cav skirmishers or ranged infantry to be cost effective against the first. 4) add a counter bonus against ranged cav -Ranged cav 5) Nerf them (but thinking about later viability) 6) Disable to training in the CC and be only trainable on barracks 6.1) And replace them with a explorer unit in the CC 7) Disable the ability to herd 7.1) Disable to ability to herd and to hunt -Cav swordmen 8) Be able to training them in barracks in phase I My opinion would be in favour in fixing towers with an added bonus against ranged cav, maybe increase pop of all cavalry, 6), disabling them in the CC, disabling the ability to herd, and maybe allow cav swordmen to be build in phase I (if there's enough effective counters, I wouldn't). I'm against nerf them. Remember that the changes and solution have to affect also the (Egyptian cav archers). Different solutions, different approaches. PD: I don't know if devs want to bring the Phabricator discussions here.. If not, I won't do it again.

Well, I hadn't play the game a lot since the last 2 alphas, but I wanted to ask if somebody uses sword and spear cavalry (not champions). IRC, They die very easily to ranged (specially when massed), so it doesn't make really sense to train them. Buff them should also make spear and pike units more useful. Any thoughts ?

Somall faction can have this units, are possible some Civs superior to other? is reliably? Like AOK using skirmisher or using spearman vs metal cost units. quantity vs quality?

So.....I pitted Seleucid SS against Macedonian Hypapists with the SS upgrade...... And the Macedonians won...... What!?! Just for future note, which do you guys think would win realistically? Macedonian Hoplite SS, Seleucid Pike SS.

Hi all, I reporte this at ticket system and I've been suggested to post it here for community discussion, which is great and I hope it can give more ideas to devs. With the new capture engine I think it would be nice to redefine damage to buildings from units which are not designed for sieges (all except, siege weapons - rams, catapults, etc. -, Romans italic heavy infantry and Iberians Leial Zanduneira AFAIK). This would have some direct consequences: Civs picks will have direct consequences when/if a siege situation come into the game Tactical decisions about how to manage armies, depending on situations or objectives (no more champions nukes zerging, for example), both for defenders and attackers Early game is relevant again There are some ideas: Normal buildings: 30% percent of melee damage and 25% from ranged units Defensive buildings and Walls: 5% percent of melee damage and 2% from ranged units Of course, this damage modifications won't apply to any unit designed for sieges. In my humble opinion, this would lead to a drastic change of what we have seen until now and will probably needs further modifications of other siege/game related parameters like: formations to protect siege units, specialization of some siege units as suggested in #2038 and much more. I will try to keep the post as updated I can, so it can be a point of reference to anyone to start the discussion. Have a nice day!

Disclaimer : It is important that existing balance changes are not only rated by reading, but by testing. Means: Install and play the balance branch and install and play SVN/A17. The aim of this thread is creating a place where all ideas are merged together so we don't forget any. Also this is the place to vote for those ideas. I'll update this thread as thing goes, and moderate it. What we need for now is the list of all players, so we have a numeric idea on how many people play the balance branch. Please comment below to give me your names. Also we are thinking of launching a tournament so that we can gather interesting feedback. I proposed something similar (but it was only for the devs here : http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=19034 and here : http://www.wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=18484). If you want to say something in this aim that doesn't fit in this thread, just ask me by PM and /or ask me to come on IRC. At the end I plan to have an excel file, becoming bigger with all the ideas then shorter when everything has been voted. Of course I realise that may mean 'A : I want cav to be OP' 'B: Cav should be less OP'. But that will work for other things such as increasing the strength of the ram when units are garisonned in. Or maybe make it a mobile garison like walls. Regards Stan. I don't have access to excel for now so here is the list. I'm basing the popularity of the idea of the proposition on the number of likes of the post -Units garrisoned in batterings ram, should give a bonus: mov speed, damage and atk speed. 1 -Bonus for units in walls. Deals better than unit without protection. (Already In) -Slavery at market by each percentage of units killed. 2 -Make Qarthage be able to train biremes (at least) at the commercial dock. That way it doesn't get bummed over in Island maps. 2 -Make formations more of a Select a bunch of units then "form up" (maybe for flavor one of them get's "promoted" and a bubble appears over his head every time you issue an order. Formations should also disable gathering - to make moving through heavily resourced areas less of a pain.2 -Make ships not take population - but instead make them mobile walls. When in range of a dock (Qarthage's military dock would have a greater range) they can train "marine"(Civilised) or "boarder"(Barbarian) units for the ships. Boarders would be better at melee, where marines would have a ranged attack and melee attack. -Make units like Hastatus Have slowly rechargeable one-time ranged attack when not in melee. Iberians would have it on all their melee units, and have two - instead of one javelin. -Make persian immortals be trained as a toggle. EG: Persian palaces give a slow toggle of resources, yes? make the toggle trade that for immortals instead. -A new special for iberians (that isn't dependant on map makers and isn't ALWAYS deleted immediately at the start of the game) -slavery at market by each percentage of units killed. AoE3 had a building that could train cannons as a trickle so that the only cost was time (it was slow enough to be fair). I don't see why we couldn't do that in our game for some unit. 3 Votes Authorized Members (To get in this list just play) (15 players in total) - AceWild - alpha123 - Altamura - angelogenius - auron2401 - djjunde - Infoman - Itms - Jagster3r21 - LordIgorIIIofKiev - santa - Sanguivorant - Shaken_Vesper - tau - Tux - z

After discussion on IRC, we've come to the conclusion that the Iberian circuit wall is slightly overpowered. We believe that we should still make the Iberian player raidable, just make it difficult (instead of impossible as it is now). The solution we came up with was to remove the free gates and keep the open gaps in the wall. Secondly, we could remove auto-arrows from Wall Towers until a tech is researched in the Town Phase (a revamped "Night's Watch" tech). These two things combined could be enough of a nerf that we don't have to remove the circuit wall entirely, which would be a shame.