Arup

Should han heroes be reworked

a few questions, just react with a good or bad emoji as a reply: Question: Should Mercenaries be nerfed?

I think we should take the approach of limiting the successive community mods on a few grouped factions and then working our way through them thoughts @guerringuerrin @real_tabasco_sauce ? under this approach,I think we should tackle the Hans first one must realise that a walking pyramid for free at start is way too much value for a civ that already has the best farms in the game. The bonus should be 5% or no more than 7% additionally, here is something to boost them back: bring them auxiliary tribal cavalry. in 0AD, mercs also act like a class of allied or tributary auxilliary troops.so,it will be fair to give the Han a type of mercenary archer cavalry (first cav archer merc in game). This is a bit controversial as archer cav is already very annoying, so mercs will be even more annoying ALSO,bring back Han Swordsmen (please, they look so cute, like holding a long grey balloon)

https://tenor.com/fGW1ncEOmbc.gif

I only made a new separate topic for the new community mod,nothing else, it's still tabasco running the house haha, I'll unfortunately be too busy to help for a while

downloaded and pasted from mod.io release (will update alongside mod.io)

0ad-community-mod-0282-3tkp.zip. With this version, the goal was to tackle some relatively simple balance changes, some of which have been in high demand. Fanatics HP, hack damage, and hack armor reduced. Persian immortal HP reduced (both melee and ranged), ranged version damage and accuracy were reduced. Heroes may no longer be used to "bait" enemy units, as Heroes are removed from the preferred target class for all units. Champion cavalry and ranged champion cavalry HP reduced from 260->220 and from 220->200, but wood and metal prices were reduced. This, combined with speed reduction is intended to bring their population efficiency closer to infantry champions. Cavalry speed was reduced by 15%. Scout ship counter damage vs ships reduced from 3x to 2.5x, range reduced, and price increased from 50f 50w to 50f 100w. Foundation pierce armor increased from 10 to 20. (Foundations take 66% less damage from pierce attacks). Capture balance: Civic center capture points increased from 2500 to 3500. Fortress increased from 4000 to 8000. "Sentries" tower upgrade now also increases tower capture points by 50%. "Professional garrisons" fortress upgrade now also doubles fortress capture points. Scipio's Capture attack aura removed. (See https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/pulls/8892 for more.) Germans buffs: Champion axeman unit metal cost reduced from 100 to 80. Seeress damage aura range increased from 15 to 20. Seeress armor increased from 2->3 hack armor and 4->6 pierce armor Seeress remain unaffected by blacksmith techs. Wagon encampment price reduced from 350w, 150s to 275w, 100s. Feel free to see the full changelog in game thanks to @guerringuerrin . As always, please give us some feedback about how these balance changes go. @real_tabasco_sauce hope it's okay I copypasta your text

@Chasca it's real lmao I was there,can confirm

@Thalatta I assume you are talking about delenda right? since the vanilla doesn't have... like, half of these things in the first place. other than that,yes these are mostly name or design changes and personally, I don't mind it either way, especially the designs... it's good that you can point it out but I'm not sure someone is willing to create brand new designs for one of the oldest civs in the game... I do have something to say abt the few balance changes I could see: no, under no circumstances should a mini ram boat be made. we already know what is happening with the scout ship. this mini ram ship will be the new ultimate spam. just, no. that temple bonus you were talking about... yes, I'm always up for something to make each civ more unique! perhaps the temple could get a tech that increases their radius and/or increases their heal per second. ah and, Chosen Athenian sounds a soo much cooler than "city guard" lol i definitely want to see that change

I suggest you open a ticket for all these name changes in the gitea @Vantha or @wowgetoffyourcellphone might help bring these changes to life

@Thalatta as the self proclaimed biggest worshipper of Athena im hurt you did not ping me into this topic before

I forgot to mention,but why is Wei Qing's bonus named "Mandate of Heaven" ? he isn't even an emperor

There are three heroes of the Han in the game,namely: Liu Bang, the first Emperor Han Xin,his brilliant general Wei Qing, a later great cavalry general under Emperor Wu. only the Han Xin's design makes sense to me,although I'm interested to know what exactly this Northern and Southern Army bonus is referring historically to. Liu Bang was not a great individual fighter,or a tactical battlefield commander. His success came largely through his own charisma and the ability to recognise talent.His rule is also known for lower taxes and agricultural reforms so, the cavalry bonus makes no sense to me. If anything, his bonus should be a economy focused hero,or atleast something a bit more non-combatant. now here is the problem for which I made the entire post: WEI QING. he was LITERALLY KNOWN for his horsemanship and praised by his emperor for it. WHY DOES HE THEN RIDE A CHARIOT? he was also known for his marksmanship,so it would be fine to make him an archer cavalry hero, probably the first of its kind in the vanilla game. I also suggest adding the cavalry bonus to Wei Qing,as he was the Grand Master of the Horse- Grand General, General of the Chariots and Cavalry. additionally with these big changes,I believe his aura of reducing enemy cav attack should remain. the 30m will be less powerful when you realise he is an archer

why's this still in game bruh this shi is fake right? there's no historical evidence that marius really revolutionised the army or whatever

I just thought of documenting all these stuff, I don't even have pictures (I'll add them later) 1. Trump Wall As athens you can get a nice research in the sanate that gives you the ability to place walls in neutral territory. this way you can basically partition the entire map in two piece. with Themoclydes or whatever that hero's name is,he gives half construction time and 30% less cost so it's even better. do note that this works very well against annoying cav mfs. also a point to note is to not start to build walls directly from neutral territory. start building them from your territory otherwise the walls you build will fall to gaia. this way you have a literal wall which can act as a root for making storehouses in random places,or making entire forts and stables and barracks and basically a new frkn base without a cc. do note that this costs a shitton of stone and a fair amount of manpower for both gathering and building. so in most cases it's best not to do this,but it's very fun 2. BAKE SOME CITY GUARDS ingredients: Athen civ, Barrack, Hoplite Tradition research, Athenian Hoplites process: P2 Hoplite tradition then bake your Hoplites in the oven (barracks) for about 3 minutes. and voila! you will have fresh champions for barely half the cost! and even before p3! ready to invade with the rest of your army!! it's actually a very strong strat so you can actually do this one quite a lot of times and situations 3. Hippo smash (by now you might have guessed what my fav civ is and who's really the biggest worshipper of Athena) in phase 2,you can invade with peltast mercs, Hippocrates,and a primary citizen spear army with Hoplite tradition. make sure to get the hoplite tradition, and in the forge get the pierce resistance as well as ranged attack damage buffs this strategy focus on constantly bombarding your enemy. the hippo is a very underrated hero,you can spam healers with that hero and your army can be nigh immortal,filled with rank 3 and city guards in little time if the enemy doesn't pay attention. works best against noobs who don't know how to counter. pictures and more troll strats coming soon!!