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Hello everybody, For some time now I am bothered by the fact that farms are placed directly in front of the CC and after doing some digging in old tickets and reading the forums, it seems like I am not alone with this view. https://trac.wildfiregames.com/ticket/4342 https://trac.wildfiregames.com/ticket/1318 https://trac.wildfiregames.com/ticket/5415 https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/28757-forests-and-farmlands-a-new-idea/ https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/26701-city-building-mod-a23-a24/ I would therefore propose for A26 to finally move the farms away from the CC. I think from a realism standpoint the game could only benefit from that and it can also improve the ability of players to use different strategies (risky boom vs save turtle). So to get an idea about the general opinion on this is at the moment, I would be happy if you could indicate in the poll what your thought on the topic is. _________________________________________ Just for context, here is a shortened version of my original proposal (remove dropsite capabilities and arrows from the cc): At the moment, the CC serves as territory root, defensive building and dropsite and this combination seems logically very inconsistent to me. It leads to a standard build order that involves 8 fields around the CC, because that is the most defended area in the beginning of the game. The CC represents the center of the civilization. There is also no visual indication for the player, that a structure, that is elaborate and full of prestige, is also a big storehouse for stone, metal, wood and food. The solution that I am proposing, is to split the functionality of the CC to the respective buildings. So defensive buildings do the defense and storehouses /farms are used to store resources. This means to replace the capacity of the CC to shoot arrows, with an aura of some sort and to disable it as a dropsite. This would hopefully lead to more realistic city layouts and to an more interesting early game, because players do have to think more about how they want to defend their farms, or if the just take the risk and do a straight boom.

Hey again ! Thank you for the feedback, I've made the changes. I did swap temple and workshop, but it's good that the buildings speak for themselves nonetheless. I'll tale a break of some days on this to cleance my palate and go back for the second wave. So changelog: New blockouts: Cavalry Stable Archery Range Wall Gate, Wall Section and Wall with Towers. Greathall (new version) Mesh modification: Tower defense as wooden straight base. Scale of houses seems to be an effect of the screenshot, explanation under. Temple was made wider, but I kept the stone circles. It's quite appealing and iconic (if not as accurate) of germanic faith. Also runic stones will be fun to texture. Textures: Added a basic color palette. It's going to help get a feel of the cohesion and help me along the line to map the uv. It may seem to cartoonish/lowpoly stylised but it's a work in progress. The more models/parts I add the more refined this texture will be and then when I'm sure of the final result I will make a uptostandard version via substance. Points of discussion: The workshop has a ram in the concept art. I would very much like to add it, but: I was lazy to get historically accurate references for the type of siege engine of this civ, and I did not find the original mesh of the engine of the celts or gauls. If someone would be so kind to point them to me (references or the mesh). The archery range is a bit empty, and it's the biggest case from the concept art problem. Once modeled to scale they are not as cramped. There is two solutions: add eyecandy in the mesh or bolsterise everything. Note post_render: so I went back to compare and I found that my models are on the realistic scale side. I'll remake them to fit the greater scale of the others civs meshes. The Current work updated: Civic center Houses: To scale with others in engine: Barrack: Great Hall (new '1 floor' version) Tower Defense, version with stone pyramid base and straight wood. The stone version comes from the concept arts of @Obskiuras. Don't know if they were instead meant for late goth civ. Temple ( As I said I kept the stone circle because I like it, but it would be easy to remove if that's the final strong opinion) The walls and gates Workshop (lacking a ram, I still made some wheels. I'm thinking of adding more miscellanious parts to enhance the 'artelier' fell). The stone path for now a mesh, but it will be baked as a decal on the later stages. Stables (horse is for embellishment sake, from a personal model.) ... ok, ignore the wall near the trough, seems to be a mirror mistake. Archery Range The files: suebian_house_wip.rarsueban_buildings_blockout.blend sueban_buildings_blockout.blend

Introduction: The purpose this mod is to clearly define the role of buildings, which then leads to a (slightly) more realistic city layout. It is a follow up to this proposal: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/37294-storehouse-and-farms-rework please look there for additional reasons why I think these changes are good. So please take a look at the following building and ask yourself the following questions: Does this look like a place that you can pack full of soldiers and defend like a fortress? Does it look like a good place to store your food, stone or metal? Well, at least to me it doesn't. And this is imo one of the reasons for the gameplay balance problems. Therefore, introducing a mod, that clearly redefines the role of the basic buildings. Features: The civic center is no longer an all-purpose storehouse nor an easy to defend mini fortress. Its ability to shoot arrows has been removed and replaced by an aura, that increases the attack and armor of soldiers close to it. That is done because it is the center of your civilization, which should give the soldiers a boost of morale and it also prevents you from getting overrun in the first 5 minutes of the game. The storehouse is now the main place to store wood/metal/stone and its cost are reduced to 50 wood. Wood can still be stored in the CC to allow wood income in situations where all storehouses are destroyed. The farmstead is now the main place to store food and its cost are reduced to 50 wood. What do I hope are the benefits? A city layout that looks more realistic (e.g https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_Forum) and less like someone decided to turn the center of their city into one giant farming area. Easier to understand game logic. Defensive structures are for defense, economic structures are for economy. Better ability to rush in early game Because I don't want to make two mods, there are also other changes (maybe more unrealistic) based on the following complaints I have read on the forums: Rushing is too hard defensive structures are too effective (e.g. https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/37687-lets-fight-gameplay-balance-mod/) Changes: Towers: Towers do no longer have an minimum distance between them, because that restricts player freedom (and I don't like it ) To balance that out , their ungarrisoned arrow count is reduced to 0, because it was imo not realistic that they had a default arrow count (indicating a person inside) but they did not contribute to the pop limit. To have any effect of the towers, you now either need to keep men around or let them stay inside, which should prevent an extreme overuse. The tech is removed, that adds one standard arrow to towers The tech is removed, that gives 40% more arrows per garrisoned soldier The stone tower can now garrison only 3 soldiers (same as the sentry tower) but it is still harder to capture and more resistant. Palisade related: Palisades have very weak crush damage, which means that rams and catapults are way more effective against them Women now have a torch as weapon, which allows them to burn palisades. (A few hits are enough, the palisade will continue to burn until its gone) Here is a test of how effective different unit types are at destroying palisades: test.mp4 Nice new fire effects: showacse.mp4 Here is the mod (v 0.0.3): increased-realism.zip

Another plant that I saw and is in Oaxaca, is the maguel / maguey. so we have this plant in common, put is more common in mexico. the last image is courtesy of me you can use it. It should be noted that it is different because it is covered with dead pine leaves. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agave It serves as for many things, such as "As we have already noticed its bruised leaves afforded a paste from which paper was manufactured, its juice was fermented into an intoxicating beverage, pulque, of which the natives, to this day, are extremely fond" The one I saw had to measure over one meter.

when i went south on my recent vacation we climbed the side of a cliff plateau. It is a pity that I had not been able to record it on video but I found some videos that are very similar to the experience that I lived, a pity that they did not record some things that I saw that I only took in photos. The area where the Zapotecs lived all around is very similar to the area that goes from the center of my country to the south It looks a lot like Mexico, Especially if we refer to the Pacific area, In the day it is hot and dry but ... the same time at night it's very cold. Is a shame that in 4 days I had not been able to take photos only the cut stone not the natural stones.

No the SNAP method is completely separated from your distro's repos it's a complete and separate way of delivering software. Enjoy the Choice

Just making gathering speed for food equal for all units will result in a noticeable paradigm shift. This should also bode well with the realism camp.

This one was mentioned earlier in the thread, i think he would be a good choice. Ballomar Leader of the Marcomanni. At first a Roman client ruler; during the first Marcomannic war he formed an alliance with other Germanic tribes and invaded Italy. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Ballomar In another thread i posted references for how heroes could be equipped; linking here for convenience (Idea was that Ballomar had more Germanic equipment; while Ariovistus is more Celtified and the other two have looted Roman gear)

Heroes? Need at least 3, up to 5. Ariovistus Leader of the Suebi and other allied Germanic peoples in the second quarter of the 1st century BC. He and his followers took part in a war in Gaul, assisting the Arverni and Sequani in defeating their rivals, the Aedui. They then settled in large numbers into conquered Gallic territory, in the Alsace region. They were defeated, however, in the Battle of Vosges and driven back over the Rhine in 58 BC by Julius Caesar. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Ariovistus Maroboduus King of the Marcomanni, who were Germanic Suebian people. He spent part of his youth in Rome, and returning, found his people under pressure from invasions by the Roman empire between the Rhine and Elbe. He led them into the forests of Bohemia, adjacent to the Quadi who already lived nearby, and established a large alliance. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Maroboduus Arminius Was a Roman officer and later chieftain of the Germanic Cherusci tribe who is best known for commanding an alliance of Germanic tribes at the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest in 9 AD, in which three Roman legions under the command of general Publius Quinctilius Varus were destroyed. His victory at Teutoburg Forest would precipitate the Roman Empire's permanent strategic withdrawal from Magna Germania. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Arminius Thinking putting him into the Sueabian mercenary camp, since he wasn't technically a Suebian. Who else?

Ran out of disk space because of Phabricator. @implodedok fixed it gracefully.

If this is the problem, we could easily counteract it by making that CC can store wood/minerals but no food(or lets just make it wheat whereas meat and berries can). If you can store wood in the CC, you can build a farmstead and farms and you will still be able to get going. Also I highly doubt if towns will start to look as idyllic in the right picture. The only way to really know is to let people play on such a mod as I can not judge how other people would make a layout for their base. However I do suspect there will be a lot more housewalling to keep your eco safe and map generation would become more decisive. I think it will hurt gameplay more than it helps.

It's not about hyperrealism, I don't propose that people need to build an exact copy of ancient Rome. It is about the fact that the starting area around the CC is already extremely well defended, without having to use any actual defensive buildings. As @LetswaveaBook said, the farms are build in a fortified area, which is at the moment always the outside of the CC. But why not actually giving the player the choice? If you want to go for a boom you don't have to invest in defensive buildings and take the risk. If you want to be more safe and turtle at the beginning of the game, this is now a more viable options, because there is not already free defense build into your CC. There is additionally the visual aspect. Our CCs are nearly as strong as fortresses in terms of shooting arrows ect. but they look completely different. Nothing indicates that they are actually used for defense/military, they mostly look like civilian buildings (see picture below). Yes, I thought that might be a problem. The quick fix would be to give an starting storehouse and a starting farm at the beginning of the game, to avoid situations where you spend all your resources and have no place to store new ones. Example comparison, Left side standard build order, Right side my build order with the proposed changes:

what about a system for rating where could gamer always could get more (like experience)? and it constantly becomes less over the time (to a middle value. little like normal training in real world). winner gets experience (calculate this like old good elo rating), looser not. think about the effects that this could have. all ratings get closer together but the best player will still stay the best. daring a rated game is no longer risky. point are only lost over time (see e.g. aging process or experiences with success or something).

Historically, I guess if there was fertile farmland somewhere, then some people would settle it. build a little cosy house in the neighbourhood. In the game, players build farms at positions that are well defendable(in current meta around CCs). We build farms inside a fortified area. The defensive capabilities help our farmers, wheres houses and other buildings don´t need to be placed in areas that are well defendable. When using this type of logic, it is understandable that it will never look like in real live. Building farms in defensive positions seems logical whereas CCs don´t give reason to build other buildings(to form a city layout) close to them. This is aided by the fact that some players build their buildings(esp. barracks) at the edge of their territory to get some extra territory.

hyperrealism in an RTS is absurd. The RTS are full of abstractions to eliminate impractical and unnecessary things. Things like those are the ones that have removed the function for example to the outpost, The outpost is almost useless.

I tried removing dropsite from CC for a while in DE, but I found myself annoyed that I couldn't use it as such. I might try it again and see.

Yes please! I would be much obliged. The scenario map is likely best for that. This community is so helpful.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YfhXNV1TiOw

yes, is my less sharped skill as modder. im not very good with that.

Oaxaca more representative plants. Ahuehuete https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxodium_mucronatum Ceiba. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Delonix_regia Palo Mulato. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bursera_simaruba Amatillo. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ficus_pertusa

Yoda - Jedi Master Yoghurt - a food produced from the bacterial fermentation of milk Yogi - an anthropomorphic cartoon bear. Who liked picnic baskets. Yellow Bile - a humor believed in medieval physiology to be secreted by the liver and to cause irascibility Yellow Fever - an acute viral haemorrhagic disease transmitted by infected mosquitoes. Yellow Weather Warning - Lowest level of warning for extreme weather conditions, below amber and red. Usually means there will be flooding in parts of Wales. Yowsers - a slang amalgamation of 'yikes' and 'wowsers!' Popularised by the cartoon series, Scooby Doo. Yowsers, I just made a mess of my trousers - someone exclaiming in reaction to a recent unexpected/scary event that they may have soiled themselves as a result*

Some news coverage https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26207191 https://www.gamingonlinux.com/2021/02/open-source-rts-0-ad-alpha-24-is-out-now-with-plenty-of-new-features https://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=news_item&px=0-AD-Alpha-24 Well, if anyone finds a convenient way to get all the coverage, let me know. I only used Searx and searched for external links. href:https://play0ad.com/new-release-0-a-d-alpha-24-xsayarsa/ Noteworthy: Wolframalpha play0ad.com vs ageofempires.com

The rating algorithm is fine. The problem is the lack of season resets, ability to unrate 1v1s and/or lack of depreciating points for inactivity. Also, sample size. Any small community will have inherent unreliable rating numbers.

Ficus : more common species in mayan world http://www.maya-archaeology.org/FLAAR_Reports_on_Mayan_archaeology_Iconography_publications_books_articles/57_Economic-potential-for-Amate-Ficus-trees-in-Guatemala-FLAAR-Reports-Nicholas-Hellmuth.pdf there is a list of speciment of Ficus tree (oaxaca in the map.) and the rrst of Mayan World. ficus goldmanii is in many places of mesoamerica. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ficus i give the list of mayan Ficus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ficus_insipida Ficus Padifolia. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ficus_pertusa Ficus petiolaris or Amate Amarillo(yellowish). https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ficus_petiolaris Ficus pringlei S. Watson Ficus Naxima mill. this is similar that I found. Ficus Ficus Citrofolia Brosimum Alicastrum (most common in copan ruins) Ficus Segoviae same as insipida. Ficus Ficus Aurea Ficus Castilla Elastica for example from all the species of flora in Copán the top list are the following. you can see some of them inn Jurassic Park movie.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Central_American_pine-oak_forests One day may be try a trip nearly of my town.