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I think I will just lock this thread for now, it's gone too far off the rails as it is. If someone wants to discuss @borg-'s mod there's a thread for that, if someone wants to discuss the gameplay there are I don't know how many where you can do that, and if you actually do want to discuss the balancing for the development version of the game someone can start a thread with some more specific discussion. @StopKillingMe Do consider this a warning, if you don't treat other people on these forums with more respect your access to these forums will be limited. In general if you want to criticise something and have your criticism taken seriously it's more successful to be specific and provide examples than to just dismiss something as a whole.

https://news.xbox.com/en-us/2019/05/30/microsoft-approach-to-pc-gaming/ DE Edition coming to Steam. edit.

This is planned, we have the kingdom of Kush to bear the brunt of the weight of Egyptian influence. It's a long process though.

Fundamentally, nothing will change, unless people make the effort to submit patches on phabricator (e.g. https://code.wildfiregames.com/D1762 ). But even then, no guarantees: you still need to convince people your proposal is really an improvement and find team members willing to review and hopefully commit it.

The problem with the 100 column hall is that you can't see the columns, so their impressiveness is completely lost. You're not gonna see the internal arrangement of the structure so who cares if one structure has 4 internal columns or 100. The palace gate thing already in the game should just be removed. It was added to the Persians because the Greeks got the Royal Stoa. DE already removes both structures. The Gate if All Nations has a unique quality to it that it's not just another palace or temple like all the other wonders or potential wonders in the game. It was built specifically to create awe and wonder to all those entering the capital.

To start with, I'm fully in favour of having the Hanging Gardens of Babylon replaced with something Persian. Maybe you should start a Babylonian architecture set (Hanging Gardens, Ishtar Gate, etc.). And remove Persian details (lion tile is Babylonian, flanking men are Persian): However, I'm not convinced the Gate of All Nations would be a suitable wonder. It is, in fact, already present in game: the Persian hall, where you can recruit Kardakes and elephant champions (it could use some improvements, though). Moreover, it's actually one of the smallest structures (only four columns inside) of the Persepolis palace complex: https://www.livius.org/articles/place/persepolis/persepolis-photos/persepolis-terrace/ https://oi.uchicago.edu/collections/photographic-archives/persepolis/persepolis-terrace-architecture-reliefs-and-finds So if someone is ambitious, why not try your hand at the very large hundred column hall of Artaxerxes (cyan) or the even larger adapana of Darius (red)? (I'm not sure what 0 A.D.'s current Adapana is supposed to be.) Separately, it would be nice to have the tomb of Cyrus, still standing after 2500 years; see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tomb_of_Cyrus for images.

Yeah, their maps are really rough... They clearly don't consider geographic accuracy a relevant concern for their video's. A missed opportunity for a channel trying to bring lesser known histories to the fore. Their topics are definitely interesting and I enjoy watching their vids, but yeah, they could be better... I love Osprey, but yeah, it's not exactly academic literature in the narrow sense. Yep... Here's a very critical look at pre-Islamic North African trade with West Africa, from an archaeological perspective. It's definitely somewhat outdated, and completely ignores the written histories, but it's still interesting: https://journals.openedition.org/afriques/1145 This article is not very detailed, but still interesting: https://www.caitlingreen.org/2017/10/saharan-and-trans-saharan-contacts.html Contains a nice map depicting the locations of Roman and Byzantine finds in Saharan and Sub Saharan sites: This article is short and brief, but informative: https://www.ancient.eu/article/1199/the-roman-empire-in-west-africa/ (The Nok did NOT establish Djenne though, that's a huge fart on the writers part) One thing that isn't explored enough is the trade in West African gold, which I believe may have been substantial since at least Carthaginian times. The gold fields were usually kept secret, so you wouldn't expect many detailed written histories on the subject. They really need to get those chemical analysis done ASAP... Angus McBride's interpretation of Carthaginian traders in the Tichitt region of the South Western Sahara (they are ancestral to the Serer/Bafour/Mande peoples): The other thing that is constantly ignored, and this really grinds my gears, is the important role that the Kingdom of Kush played as an intermediary between Ancient, Greek and Roman Egypt and Sub Saharan Africa. They were by far the most powerful, wealthy and advanced civilization that stretched well into Sub-Saharan Africa, and their North-South trade was very strongly established since pre-Dynastic times, and continued on a large scale even after the fall of Meroë, up until the Islamic conquest of North Africa. Whatever volumes were traded across the Western Sahara during Antiquity, I am very confident that they paled in comparison to the volumes and variety of goods traded along the length of the Nile river. Kushite/Upper Nile Valley trade relations with more Western regions along the Sudanic belt, passing through Darfur are almost completely ignored in academia, but an important part of the puzzle in my opinion. In addition, there is a very large corpus of detailed depictions of Sub Saharan Africans in a Hellenic and Hellenistic context, of people with explicit Nilo-Saharan features (I'll make a separate post about this, because it's even more substantial than I originally realized) as well as a large amount of Sub Saharans in Roman art, many with Nilo Saharan features as well. And there is a wealth of not often cited written histories referring to these people as well, but even established researchers tend to get pretty lazy when it comes to Sub Saharan topics. Also the Byzantine relations with Christian Nubia (The Kingdoms of Nobatia, Makuria and Alodia) and with Christian Ethiopia (Aksumite empire) were direct and substantial, to say the least. The video did mention Aksum, but still didn't come close to really exposing the nature of the kingdom at the time. Oh well. I have this gnawing, purely conjectural feeling that Septimius Flaccus expedition to lake Chad may have wrecked some serious havoc in the region and may have even contributed to the terminal decline of the Nok Culture, by disrupting their trade networks to the Lake Chad region. As I said, just conjecture on my part , but I feel that the possibilty needs to be explored, as the dates coincide..

The Germans Cimbri, Suebians, Goths https://github.com/JustusAvramenko/delenda_est/commit/74653b71376ba38593f675e4051586769292b59b https://github.com/JustusAvramenko/delenda_est Need halp from our resident historians, artists, and reference gatherers. Units Since the Suebi were a tribal confederation, units will have tribal designations, for example: Marcomanni Spearman, Quadi Light Cavalry, etc. Goths will represent the "later" Germans, with round shields, more helmets, more chain mail, greater cavalry. Suebian units look like "early" Germans, with hexagonal shields, fewer helmets, less chain mail, greater reliance on infantry. Basic units - Bare chested or Animal hide. Pants. Shield. Weapon. No helmet. Advanced units - Shirt. Pants. Shield. Weapon. No helmet. Elite units - Shirt. Pants. Cape. Shield. Weapon. Simple Germanic helmet. Champions and Heroes - Heavy body armor. Germanic helmet. Suebian Heroes Ariovistus Leader of the Suebi and other allied Germanic peoples in the second quarter of the 1st century BC. He and his followers took part in a war in Gaul, assisting the Arverni and Sequani in defeating their rivals, the Aedui. They then settled in large numbers into conquered Gallic territory, in the Alsace region. They were defeated, however, in the Battle of Vosges and driven back over the Rhine in 58 BC by Julius Caesar. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Ariovistus Maroboduus King of the Marcomanni, who were Germanic Suebian people. He spent part of his youth in Rome, and returning, found his people under pressure from invasions by the Roman empire between the Rhine and Elbe. He led them into the forests of Bohemia, adjacent to the Quadi who already lived nearby, and established a large alliance. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Maroboduus Ballomar Leader of the Marcomanni. At first a Roman client ruler; during the first Marcomannic War he formed an alliance with other Germanic tribes and invaded Italy. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Ballomar Arminius Was a Roman officer and later chieftain of the Germanic Cherusci tribe who is best known for commanding an alliance of Germanic tribes at the Battle of the Teutoburg Forest in 9 AD, in which three Roman legions under the command of general Publius Quinctilius Varus were destroyed. His victory at Teutoburg Forest would precipitate the Roman Empire's permanent strategic withdrawal from Magna Germania. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Arminius Found in the Mercenary Camp. Goth Heroes Alaric I History Wiki Link Theodoric I History Wiki Link Theodoric the Great History Wiki Link Buildings All wooden, less health than "standard" civs. "Walls" are a wooden stockade, halfway in strength between palisades and stone walls. "Fortress" is wooden. Building "shapes" should roughly follow Empires Ascendant standard, but with a Germanic veneer or aesthetic. There can be some unique exceptions for visual variety however. Maybe houses are longer than they are wide with a rectangular footprint, in contrast to other civs whose houses generally fit a square footprint. Suebians Rally Point Flag General Look References Civic Center House Storehouse Farmstead/Corral (combined building) Dock Market Temple Glory Statue Forge (aka "Blacksmith") Defense Tower Barracks Stable Archery Range Great Hall (Special Building) Siege Workshop Fortress Town Walls Wonder Goths Civic Center House Storehouse Farmstead/Granary Dock Temple Glory Statue Forge (aka "Blacksmith") Defense Tower Barracks Stable Archery Range Siege Workshop Fortress Town Walls Wonder Gameplay Suebians still use standard territorial gameplay, but have an ox cart dropsite. Later Goths will have more of a nomadic gameplay (like Huns or Scythians) with no territory. It would be interesting if Hyrule:Conquest's hero selection UI could be used to "split" the Goths into Visigoths and Ostrogoths. Art Needed Each one needs its own civ emblem. Unit head models with the "Suebian Knot" and beards for the Suebian units. New unit body and shield textures. Some new helmet models. New building art set.

issue fixed

Welcome to situation normal for all open source projects never enough people actually doing something everyone else complaining your too @##@%&^! slow I have been involved in several project and that has been constant. Enjoy the Choice

@StopKillingMeCamel archers just have a crappy damage output. I still prefer'em over melee starting cav though. ^^

@wackyserious can u add this macedonian textures on seleucid pikemen?

Thanks for the tip.

FAQ from official Forum. they are accepting Win32 apps. https://www.pcgamer.com/microsoft-games-on-steam-announced/

http://www.persepolis3d.com/control_structures/apadana.htm edit, I forgot this. Persepolis columns Throne audience before the Apadana. other structure is the Gate of army. Plaza Army. Throne Hall Portico.

If you want to handle more cases, you have to use an object (or something like that) instead of a single number for attack bonuses. It's a bit heavy for the benefit but well that's easy to do.

NSFW, I guess maybe:

Hi I've got a question to. How do you make oceans or rivers?

It looks so good, it's a pitty has all those bugs.

the Egyptians could be left for an eventual Persian campaign. I must confess that I would be bored to see them extremely Hellenized without an Egyptian touch.

Hey there @Europridae I think you misunderstood the stance of the Art dpt It's not a matter of whether we should do it, it's a matter of who will do it. And the most qualified for it would be @LordGood We need new models and that takes time

Let me fetch some of the old references from the art repository, not the art_source one, of which you have access I believe. I guess @Genava55 and @Germanic_celt79 could be of assistance. Maybe @Juli51 wants to do some concept art @Andrettin EDIT: Here you go. Props Units Buildings Edit: relevant threads Voices

Wooo Darknut bases are pretty much just about done

The title of thread is: "Are there balancing changes planned for A24?"
 Instead of discussing this, the thread is becoming another hack and slash on 0AD's flawed gameplay mechanics. That's not what this thread was about and that's not what borg's mod is about. Obviously the one affects the other, but they're separate subjects. There are glaring balance issues that have little to do with gameplay, but which affect the enjoyability of competitive matches. Battering ram shenanigans. Slinger spam. Only 3-4 civs are played competitively. Underused units. etc. Borg is not a master of C++ to my knowledge. He is one of the best, or the best players out there and he has a lovely demeanor as well. He helps and teaches people how to play. He has used his experience and his skillsets to improve the balance of the game, with the stated intention of addressing many of the issues that many players have brought up repeatedly. If a team of experienced players commit to playtesting the mod and ironing out potential flaws, then we're looking at a tangible improvement in one aspect of the game. WHICH IS A GOOD THING. Regardless of whether it addresses core gameplay issues. That's a different subject, handled by different people with a different expertise. Borg's balance mod has been hugely constructive in terms of addressing some of the recurring issues that competitive players, as well as single players have complained about. Try to do your best to facilitate and improve on his productiveness!
 As for gameplay, don't get me wrong, I think 0AD can do way better. And we should actively try to overhaul (parts of) it. Unlike what some people say, 0AD is loads of fun. Otherwise none of us would be here. But it could be a lot better. Our biggest problem is lack of manpower. This is obvious. But some of the discussions on gameplay do little to inspire people to work on it. Quite the opposite. Even if I had the skills, which I don't, I'd be very hesitant to put my hand in this wasp nest. I had recently actually typed more than 4 pages of condensed suggestions for 0AD, thought through over a period of several months, many of which address gameplay one way or the other, but decided not to write it out and share it because it was obvious to me at the time that every capable person is already buried neck-deep in work. A lot of things that aren't immediately noticeable to the end user but are necessary, and often boring tasks just to keep this project going. Then my computer flipped out on me and I lost all my brilliant and not so brilliant suggestions (a sign, perhaps?). Anyway, my point is basically, learn C++ and javascript if your passion lies with improving gameplay mechanics. Seriously, we need the people! Be brave, put in the work, even if nothing comes out of it. That's the risk, and always will be. But at least you might actually learn something in the process, and inspire a more capable person to pick up the cause, or support you efferts. If you're not willing to put in the work, try to find people who are, outside of the small and already overworked pool of talented, yet under appreciated contributors. Scour forums of programmers and game-developers for capable and willing individuals. Talk to capable people in your environment, or make some publicity for 0AD on Youtube/social media, with the intention of "recruiting" people. We need people that understand what free and open source means. People that have the strength to walk the whole nine yards. Not more people that have pages of suggestions but can't do anything about it themselves and expect it to just be done, like a teenager that never folds the laundry but always has a closet full of fresh, clean clothes, and never even thinks of where they came from. @DarcReaver I agree whole heartedly that 0AD shouldn't try to be another AoE clone. But deciding what it shouldn't be is a lot easier than deciding which one of the infinite other possibilities it should be. Reaching a consensus seems to be one of the hardest things in the process. It's obvious that we all have our own ideal RTS in our mind, and it's also obvious that our definitions of ideal RTS are wildly divergent. We're all going to have to make compromises somewhere. But it shouldn't feel like a sacrifice. We need to develop a shared vision, in order to manufacture consent for our ideas. We need to foster good relations, first and foremost, because the most valuable resource to our disposal is the human resource. People need to want to work on something, not be made to feel inadequate, even though mountains have been moved over the past few years. I'm not saying you need to sweet talk anyone, just recognizing the work that has been done so far (I remember a time when 50 units would lag out the game, there were only a handful of civs, no walls, no MP, barely any gameplay at all... A complete mess, basically) [Pause Writing: there are pigs on the land! The same ones that had me up last night wondering if I'm being burglarized... Going to chase them away now. Update: The pigs are hostile! I repeat, THE PIGS ARE HOSTILE! Sending in the dogs... Hmmm, the dogs made the pigs bleed... Good! (Don't worry, the pigs are fine, just shaken) Bye Bye pigs. Doggos get some nice fish as reward. Good boys End Pause] Yes, I love art, history (antiquity in particular), variety, the ability to build a town, raise an army, murder the living daylights out of my opponents, or fight for survival. Those things make the game compelling to me, as for many others. Yes, the gameplay can be a little lackluster sometimes, but baby steps man, baby steps. It's only been about 15 odd years or so, give it some time, jeez Just kidding... Like I said, we need manpower. Without the right people with the right skills, we're going to be having these kind of discussions for many years to come. It's not as simple as just deciding what to do. Someone has to actually do it. And without pay, that might take a while. Also, just because the game isn't progressing as fast in the areas you'd like it to be progressing doesn't mean that there hasn't been stellar evolution in the quality, stability, performance and art of the game.. Not a personal attack, just a general observation. Obviously you do And that's not a bad thing. My point is, just to do what you can do. If you don't want to anymore, that's fine. But try to keep the criticisms constructive. 0AD and Wildfire Games forum are large communities. Even if we don't see eye to eye on some topics, there's always a myriad of other items we can work on, together, or separate. It doesn't matter how, as long as it mutually benefits us, there's reason to continue working on the project and sharing our progress as well. I see you're still around helping people here and there, so again, not necessarily a personal comment, just a general sentiment.

not gonna lie looks very good. didnt know microsoftuses unreal engine - does that mean AOE was made in Unreal Engine? (the gray tool he looks at) edit, okay only trailer looked good, 0ad looks better than above video

I'm making a map I'm calling "Pubjab" as an example for a possible Indian map. I need a few animals if anyone is willing to make them: -- Peacock -- Rhinoceros -- Tiger (redone) -- Rhesus Macaque -- Jackel or Hyena