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A mysterious civilization inhabits the jungles of 0 AD...

They're not quite done yet, but they're close. Sorry, I can't help but tease haha

I'm reviving this thread to continue the discussion. Here is the above refered IRC discussion (Dead links) : 23:55 < _0ADFan> lol code that 23:56 < _0ADFan> ships pass under bridges 23:56 < _0ADFan> you know..even in real life ;-) 23:56 < franklin> Maybe a length limit... Or weight limit... 23:56 < _0ADFan> at least we will get archers on walls..that's something 23:56 < _0ADFan> in alpha 17 23:57 < franklin> You can already garrison them in towers 23:57 < _0ADFan> but not on walls like in stzronghold 23:57 < _0ADFan> will come in 17 23:57 < _0ADFan> eager to see it...yiüiie 23:58 < scythetwirler> leper: Did the design committe consider bridges yet? 23:58 < franklin> How about stone bridges carrying more weight than wooden ones? 23:58 < _0ADFan> would make sense as well franklin 23:58 < _0ADFan> logical 23:59 <@leper> Would make pathfinding even more fun 23:59 <@leper> (also you need to find a nice way to implement it) In order to make map mapping and gameplay more interesting, I thought of two implementations of bridges. 1. Hack the current system of gates for bridges at least draw bridges Theory: Just like gates change obstruction, bridge change the water moving restriction. It would then make an area passable on a simple click just like for gates. for full bridges though. Bridges should have a higher weight than the rest of the paths, because they are more annoying to cross, especially if we aim to have formations. (In this case they should be disbanded when on the bridge) Advantages: Performance savvy compared to other solutions. Less coding required Issues: Not really aesthetically pleasing (you cannot have arched bridges for instance) Bridge height depends on water height unless a origin hack is used. 2. Use prop points to define the path. Theory: units would be using the prop points in the Collada (*.dae) file in order to make a custom path following the points. Path would be cached to avoid to recompute the arc again and again. Depending on a given size in the template, the game would make a fake and invisible terrain in stead of the bridge. Advantages: Visually more pleasing. Arched bridges Different heights possible Not related to terrain around Issues: Performance costly compared to other solutions. More coding required More use of interpolation functions. Common Issue: Both bridges should have a height offset not to have the bridge collide with the water and units collide with the mesh. Xml coul Xml file could look like this : <Obstruction> <Obstructions> <Right width="11" depth="8" x="13" z="0"/> <Left width="11" depth="8" x="-13" z="0"/> <Pathway heightOffset="15" width="15" depth="8" x="0" z="0"/> </Obstructions> </Obstruction> Variants: Draw Bridges If you want to make bridge passable for boats It would require an active query to check whether the approaching unit is a boat or a unit, which might it really slow performance wise. Also the case when both units happen to get on the bridge that could get messy To solve this, maybe don't make it automatic like gates. Bridge will switch with the same button than for gates. Today's discussion <Vladislav> Stan`: yep, but AFAIK current pathfinder doesn't support few passable layers on the same (x, z), so another solutions looks like a hack .:Stan`:. Vladislav, I'm pretty sure we could get the same result that on the first screenshot .:Stan`:. which is the theoreticall terrain <Vladislav> Stan`: the bridge demo map already implements this "bridge" .:Vladislav:. But for ships it's not passable .:Stan`:. Vladislav, but as terrain, not as a buildable mesh <Vladislav> Stan`: yep, so for us it would be good to have sanderd17 patch about terrain modificators .:Stan`:. Vladislav, I don't really understand what it does? Does it create a fake heightmap ? <Vladislav> Stan`: It could change visible height of map, or only collision height, or both, at least it should be there I think .:Stan`:. Vladislav, Ah yeah indeed in that case. And if you can do that interactively, you can make draw bridges .:Stan`:. which imo .:Stan`:. should be the only ones allowing ships to cross them .:Vladislav:. If we will a bridge logic to pathfinder then it will be slower in common case, because more conditions aren't good for caches .:Vladislav:. *have .:Vladislav:. *add .:Vladislav:. Or I could suggest to use 2 different maps, for ships, and for ground units .:Vladislav:. then it will be possible .:Vladislav:. fast and easy enough to implement .:Stan`:. Vladislav, Would make sense as wll .:Stan`:. having uncrossable areas unless you make a bridge would change gameplay a lot .:Vladislav:. Yep .:Stan`:. I guess the best thing would be this .:Stan`:. map makeers put foundations .:Stan`:. on random areas of the map .:Stan`:. (not random) .:Stan`:. and then players can only build bridges there .:Stan`:. thoses bridges should be neutral .:Stan`:. and for now... indestructibles

Mostly satisfied with the game mechanics. Agree that we need more (than zero) technically skilled visionaries compatible to the developers and players pov. The pace of the game seems slow already as one needs to reach city phase, build a fortress and construct a ram and destroy the enemy civic centers in order to win (which was possible with citizen soldiers in a17 and possible with champions in a18-a20). If we deincentivize early attacks, the game would become extremely boring to competitive players. Singleplayer games target casual players who might play less games but expect longer ones. So this is mostly influenced by the aggressiveness of the bot. There are plans to allow setting the behavior of the bot #2550. It could become defensive by default. Also if there is a singleplayer campaign, none of this will apply anymore.

This map is already playable, 1 vs 2. Athens vs Persians. It's a normal size map, tried no to add to much eyecandy stuff. There is still something left, as the background, some advices and additions on units and buildings, making some walls untargetable, plus more stuff. Units can walk on 'walls' (But those are just elevated terrain with walls in both sides, but they work!). As soon as i finished the entire 'agenda' of the map i will make the respective post. Units on 'walls' For now, if someone wants to give any advice, opinion, wants to play it or erase it, just leave a comment. Im not good at balancing The map As for the name of the map, i gladly receive suggestions. Siege.zip

Can someone ever finish learning c++ ? WoodenBridge.7z

I've created some new maps for a22 to further improve selection and variety. These may need some minor fixing up, I'm still unskilled at map-making. You can find my maps here. There is also a ticket for this. Screenshots are provided for each map. African Plains African Wetseason Ambush-Frontier Artic Summer Artic Tundra Carthaginian Coast Danube Extinct Volcano India Polar Sea Ravines Strips Two Rulers(scenario)

This game is sending me mixed messages. The relaxing music and all the mechanics based around researching tech and advancing through the ages makes me believe that I should be taking a slow, cautious and strategic approach to play. However, the AI is incredibly aggressive, they seem to be completely uninterested in anything but destroying me as soon as possible! I don't think this behaviour makes much sense given the mechanics of the game, and the reality of war being a risky business; war is something that should be avoided until it can be avoided no longer! We have a map with limited resources, so it is a matter of time before we are actively competing for those resources, and in such a situation it's inevitable that conflicts will arise. Then it is down to the diplomacy and military might of the civilisations to settle territory disputes and secure peace for a time, until the cycle repeats itself and eventually one side is wiped off the map. There is no sense or need to rush this. Even if an enemy saw that they were militarily supreme, they wouldn't just go and destroy everyone else (unless they were causing them real problems), they'd demand tribute, and use their power to secure territory by threats, diplomacy and minor skirmishes. I want to see enemy AI launching attacks to take over strategic points and resources, not just to kill all my people. I want to see their forces line up near my borders and issue demands on the threat of sacking my cities. Any tips on what I can do to make the game play more like this, the way I would like it to be?

Apparently, C++ was an option, I just wasn't aware that it was a thing until I had already finished all of my programming classes and ended up pursuing a more generic Computer Information Systems degree instead of Game Simulation and Programming. Already knowing C# and Java is definitely helping a lot.

@imperium: Not Aztecs but a predecessor of them (Zapotecs?)

From experience, the Petra AI tries to destroy your army WHILE building another base on another strategic location. From your suggestion, I think you want something with the attributes of a turn-based strategy setup: make war only on strategic points and only if those points are being contested, and then saddle back once those points are won/lost. The only tip I could give is that you make maps with an attack-defend setup. Very linear.

I find it difficult to consider Citizen Soldiers being used purely as Trash Units. The definition works to some extent, but AoE's trash units can't pay themselves back nor be used to establish a strong defensive base. But if I just grant the purpose "fending off attacks to give enough time to produce stronger units", I think it's too early to say since the game isn't yet optimized to support huge population caps. I think it's possible though.

They only need give same architecture to new civs, model/mod few units, done, expend advertising by youtubers like Zero Empires and top players(3000 $) and balancing some, get the new civs OP, I read a lot about this. they can do this every year.

Somall faction can have this units, are possible some Civs superior to other? is reliably? Like AOK using skirmisher or using spearman vs metal cost units. quantity vs quality?

Not sure whether anyone else has had this problem with the AUR package(s), and this is probably a package maintainer issue (or my local ability to apply AUR repo's properly is lacking, obviously) but I thought this might be interesting for folks who might run into this issue. I installed the AUR package and it seemed to not copy all the information/files from the package build/source directory to /usr/share/0ad-git/data/ where the program expects it to be. I had to do this manually (cp -rv ./data /usr/share/0ad-git/data) and now the game works smoothly. If this is irrelevant information for some reason, I apologise.

I don't consider them as trash units in the exact same way as AoE because: You can do more with them other than just sending them out to die (build and gather). AoE trash units don't. They can be used to "pay back" what you have spent them for. AoE trash units can't do that. You don't need to send out the weaker villagers just to build on a strategic position, and can contribute to the faster build time while the enemies are still closing in. AoE trash units don't. They're only defined as 0 A.D. Trash Units because They only cost Food and Wood Are there to fend off attacks until you can produce the stronger units. Some people don't like the concept of Glorified Villagers (aka Citizen Soldiers), and that's fine with me. I even had someone argue that Citizen Soldiers are either Citizens or Soldiers, but not both at the same time. Stressing the point that he was either wielding a sword, or a plow. However he sees it, I like how 0 A.D. implements it in the game. But that's just me.

I'd name it Thermopylae simply for the factions. The problem is that I don't even know what the true historical map of Thermopylae looked like. Edit: scratch that. I actually meant Marathon. X-P

The Aztecs should be in Millennium AD

And it's not a hobby for them, they get paid for this. Contrary to the modders from AOK heaven who dedicate a lot of their time making new buildings and units. Well, I've seen that some of the modders have worked on the the two last dlcs, but they really deserved it, because they had already professional skills in their own fields. But it's definitely modders who have kept this game alive for 17 years now, so that new dlcs could be made even nowadays....

Map: Mainland Players: fatherbushido vs kudriy Romans vs Iberians on small map. Citizen soldiers fight, swordmen, ... how will it ends ? 2016-12-21_0004.7z

+1 for restraint Looks nice ! Keep it up

https://tcmam.wordpress.com/2010/11/11/did-pre-columbian-mesoamericans-use-wheels/ Many speculation about this.

Ram very similar to AoM Norse siege ram.

I'm thinking of adding champion clubmen like the mauryans have for a siege option, considering many mesoamerican civs didnt lay siege, or else give them rams, or both, why not. I like the idea of a "champion priest" but it may be easier to future proof for the next alphas if we just call the battle priest a champion swordsman/spearman that's trainable out of the temple. The ball court can be used to train champions or perhaps... overwhelm with elite citizen soldiers?

Well, the Khmers could be a full fledged civilization, as well as the burmese (Pagan Kingdom), and indonesian (Sriwijaya, and Majapahit), the Cham is indeed good choice for the Indochina region...but as I said, I'm sure someone will be interested one day, plus if it's not in the main game, it can be done in mods, like the chinese hans...

Ok so civilizations in america from the preclassic period 2300 b.C. to 100 a.C. Olmecs: They lived in the areas of the states of Tabasco and Veracruz, but other places have evidence of their presence. 1500 b.C. to 400 b.C. They had 3 main sites San Lorenzo, La venta ( I have visited it ), and Tres Zapotes: San Lorenzo: The ancient city of San Lorenzo is considered one of the most important cultural centers of the Olmecs. Some research suggests that this process of development of the city occurred thanks to the enormous amount of water resources. In addition, it is believed that an elite would have dominated local politics, in view of the large number of luxury goods identified in the region. The splendor and high degree of development of San Lorenzo lost force between the years 950 and 900 BC. Although there is no concrete evidence in this episode of Olmec history, some historians suspect that an internal conflict has fueled this stampede. La venta: ( Most important ) At the same time that San Lorenzo went into visible decline, the city of La Venta became the unifying center of the Olmec culture. In the fourth century BC, this city was of great importance for this civilization. After that, perhaps because of the great climatic changes, this region was uninhabited until the definitive demise of the Olmecs. For many people, La Venta could have been the capital of a possible Olmec empire; It was not the oldest city, but undoubtedly it was the best preserved, and it is possible to generate much of the Olmec style. Tres zapotes: Tres Zapotes is a Mesoamerican archaeological site located in the lowlands of the south central coast of the Gulf of Mexico, in Rio Papaloapan plain. Tres Zapotes is sometimes considered the third largest site in Olmec (after La Venta and San Lorenzo), although the Tres Zapotes phase constitutes only a fraction of the history of this place. The oldest occupation occurred at approximately the same time as La Venta, but there was still a post-Olmec occupation. The site is located in the village of Tres Zapotes, near Santiago Tuxtla, Veracruz, on the western edge of the Sierra de los Tuxtlas. ART: Cabezas Olmecas or Olmec heads 25 tons basalt 1300 b.C. to 1000 b.C. Best details than any other civilization in Mesoamerica. Each is unique 17 have been found 3 in Tres Zapotes 4 in La Venta and 10 in San Lorenzo Warriors Have African features ( no one knows why ) FACTS: They were the first ones to have a written language in Mesoamerica. Government: Teocratic, the Governors were an important religious figure. Religion: Had priests called chamanes; Gods: Feathered Snake ( like other civilizations( Quetzalcóaltl by the aztecs ) ), Rain spirit. They were one the first civilizations to practice cranial deformations: Deformations were seen as something good and they made some instruments to make your head "deformer" like other civilizations. They also played ball game ( see previous post about ball game ) DECLINE: No exact reason, may had been because of weather or a plague or a drought, etc. OTHER CIVS ILL RESEARCH LATER: Zapotecs, Mixtecs, and an article about Cuicuilco a circular pyramid that may have been done by the olmecs or the zapotecs ( and its like 4 blocks away from my house, so I think it would be good to talk about it since it lands in the period you said ).

500 B.C. to 1 B.C.

This is a conceptual guide for mod, or mods concerning mesoamerica. Aztecs and Inca do fall beyond our timeframe, so do the golden age maya, actually. Maya might be cool for Empires Besieged or Millennium AD p1, Aztec and inca would fit p2 which leaves the Olmec and Zapotec, and maybe Mixtec, though I'm not familiar enough with them yet. Zapotecs from what I can tell were more monument/pyramid builders than the Olmec aside from their carved heads, so would be the most logical choice imo

HEROES: AZTECS: Nezahualcoyotl: Means fast coyote, He succeeded his father to the throne and His land was conquered by the Tepanecs of Azcapotzalco, later with a single military force he recovered Texcoco, and started whats known as the Texcoco golden age where he made a group of wise philosophers, artists, etc. and improved economy and culture grew exponetially. He is mainly known for some of his poems. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nezahualcoyotl Moctezuma II: His name means "he who is angry in a noble manner" while in his reign the aztec kingdom reached its mayor size by warfare covering almost all Mezoamerica, He was the one that received the Spainiards, at first he thought they were gods then the Spainiards made an aliance with the civilizations under aztec control to cause revolts, so Moctezuma invited them to his palace and gave them gifts but then he realized their intentions and told them to leave, not many time after that the Spainiards attacked and killed many aztecs; His death has 2 theories he was betrayed or he was killed by Spanish soldiers. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moctezuma_II Tenoch: Founder of Mexico, He was a priest and the ruler of the aztecs, In the prophecy it said that he needed tho find an eagle standing in a nopal eating a snake, so in their 200year long migration they found many enemies. When they were close to the Mexican valley they found themselves agianst the Tepanecs of Azcapotzalco he fought them and won easily, then he found himself in the territory of the culhues were the king knew them he knew they were agrressive and dangerous so he gave them a small part of his territory which was the harshest but they managed to survived, later on he gave them his daughter the culhua princess so Tenoch sacrificed her, skinned her, used her as a cape, and made pozole (previously mentioned) with the rest. Then after 200 years just as he was getting expelled by the culhues he found the sign of the prophecy in the Texcoco lake, So he founded his city Tenichtitlán there and later they became the greatest empire of Mezoamerica. He was later "divinized" because of his amazing achievements, they consideered him as a god. Source: History classes, http://afrarodriguez.blogspot.mx/2014/01/tenoch-fundador-de-mexico-tenochtitlan.html.

You could also train champs from there because only the finest men played ball game, they would be much like naked fanatics

The Zapotecs were influenced by the mayans. They located in the state of Oaxaca. Their name was given by the Aztecs ( Rulers of Mesoamerica) it means in nahuatl (Aztec language) it means people of the Zapote (a Mexican fruit) but that wasn't their real name it was ben´zaa it means people of the clouds, they thought they were descendants of the clouds. I found something interesting: they believed in the legend of the nahual ; they were priests with amulets that at night could transform into savage animals and terrorized the people. I think this nahuales could be trainable champion priests. They were really scary I think they could debonus nearby enemy troops in attack because of fear. The design could be a normal soldeir with some wolf skin and other animal skins like on the third image. But they need to be available not only to Zapotecs but also to aztecs because they both believed in them

I would really like to have that functionality, Lion. That would be really great for mods that tie up nicely with the main game.

we can create mods that can convert into officials DLC like these guys did.

The patterns are different from Mayans.

The Ball game. The sport known simply as the Ball Game was popular across Mesoamerica and played by all the major civilizations from the Olmecs to the Aztecs. The impressive stone courts became a staple feature of a city’s sacred complex and there were often several playing courts in a single city. More than just a game, though, the event could have a religious significance and featured in episodes of Mesoamerican mythology. The contests even supplied candidates for human sacrifice, for the sport could, quite literally, be a game of life or death. The game was invented sometime in the Preclassical Period (2500-100 BCE), probably by the Olmec, and became a common Mesoamerican-wide feature of the urban landscape by the Classical Period (300-900 CE). Eventually, the game was even exported to other cultures in North America and the Caribbean. THE COURT Courts were usually a part of a city’s sacred precinct, a fact which suggests the ball game was more than just a game. Early Preclassic playing courts were simple, flattened-earth rectangles but by the Late Formative Period (300 BCE onwards) these evolved into more imposing areas which consisted of a flat rectangular surface set between two parallel stone walls. Each side could have a large vertical stone ring set high into the wall. The walls could be perpendicular or sloping away from the players and the ends of the court could be left open but defined using markers or, in other layouts, a wall closed off the playing space to create an I-shaped court. The court at Monte Albán, Oaxaca is a typical example of the I-shaped court. The length of the court could vary but the 60 m long court at Epiclassic El Tajín (650-900 CE) represents a typical size. The flat court surface often has three large circular stone markers set in a line down the length of the court. Some of these markers from Maya sites have a quatrefoil cartouche indicating the underworld entrance which has led to speculation that the game may have symbolised the movement of the sun (the ball) through the underworld (the court) each night. Alternatively, the ball may have represented another heavenly body such as the moon and the court was the world. Surviving courts abound and are spread across Mesoamerica. The Epiclassic city of Cantona has an incredible 24 courts with at least 18 being contemporary. El Tajín also has a remarkable number of courts (at least 11) and it may well have been a sacred centre for the sport, much like Olympia for athletics in ancient Greece. The earliest known court is from the Olmec city of San Lorenzo whilst the largest surviving stone playing court is at the Mayan-Toltec city of Chichén Itzá. With a length of 146 m and a width of 36 m, this court seems almost too large to be actually played in, especially with the rings set at the demanding height of 8 m. Players were frequently depicted in Mesoamerican art, appearing in sculpture, ceramics and architectural decoration - the latter often decorating the courts themselves - and these depictions often show that the players wore protective gear such as belts and padding for the knees, hips, elbows and wrists. The players in these works of art also typically wear a padded helmet or a huge feathered headdress, perhaps the latter being for ceremonial purposes only. Zapotec relief stones at Dainzú also depict ball players wearing grilled helmets as well as knee-guards and gauntlets.

They look like similar to Mayans. "Zapotec culture" Commerce Governament Ceramic Legends and origins, (probably this represent their mythology)

The Zapotecs, known as the 'Cloud People', dwelt in the southern highlands of central Mesoamerica, specifically, in the Valley of Oaxaca, which they inhabited from the late Preclassic period to the end of the Classic period (500 BCE - 900 CE). Their capital was first at Monte Albán and then at Mitla, they dominated the southern highlands, spoke a variation of the Oto-Zapotecan language, and profited from trade and cultural links with the Olmec, Teotihuacan and Maya civilizations. The Zapotecs grew from the agricultural communities which grew up in the valleys in and around Oaxaca. In the Preclassic period they established fruitful trade links with the Olmec civilization on the Gulf Coast which allowed for the construction of an impressive capital site at Monte Albán and for the Zapotec to dominate the region during the Classic period. The city, strategically placed overlooking the three main valleys, evolved over centuries, beginning around 500 BCE and remaining the cultural centre until the demise of the civilization around 900 CE. By the late Preclassic period Zapotec cities show a high level of sophistication in architecture, the arts, writing and engineering projects such as irrigation systems. For example, at Hierve el Agua there are artificially terraced hillsides irrigated by extensive canals fed by natural springs. Evidence of contact with other Mesoamerican cultures can be seen, for example, at the site of Dainzu, which has a large stone-faced platform with reliefs showing players of the familiar Mesoamerican ball game wearing protective headgear. We also know of very close relations between the Zapotec and the peoples based at Teotihuacan in the Basin of Mexico. Indeed, at Teotihuacan there was even a quarter of the city specifically reserved for the Zapotec community. The majority of the structures visible today on the main plaza date to the Classic period with the notable exception of the Temple of the Danzantes, a stone platform structure which was constructed when the site was first occupied (Monte Alban I). The name Danzantes derives from the dancing relief figures decorating the platform. 300 figures are identifiable, some seem to be old, single-toothed males, some have been mutilated, whilst still others seem to be almost swimming - who they represent is not known. Other relief stones from the temple also provide the first certainly identified written texts in Mexico showing an alphabet with semantic and phonetic elements (as yet undeciphered). There is also a system of numbers represented by dots and bars and glyphs for the 260-day year based on 20 day names and 13 numbers with the 52-year cycle of the Calendar Roun In the subsequent Classic period Monte Albán III arose and, influenced by Teotihuacan, saw the construction of an I-shaped ball court and the Temple-Patio-Altar complex that would be copied at sites across the Valley. In addition, over 170 underground tombs have been excavated, many with vaults and antechambers with richly painted walls, which attest to the wealth of the city. The tombs also show signs of being regularly re-opened, illustrating the Zapotec preoccupation with ancestor worship.

"The word "Holcan" means "warrior." Maya warriors formed a separate class in their society. In battle they would often capture rather than kill enemy soldiers to provide slaves or human sacrifices. The Holcan used many different weapons including spears, slingshots, clubs, knives, and even bombs made of hornet's nests. In times of need Maya used a form of conscription to force farmers or others to become soldiers."

AoE 2 accuracy. The Mayans and Aztecs did not have developed Siege Warfare. That's not because they were technologically deficient (the Vikings didn't have much siege, either, nor did the Japanese). However, playing a civ with 0 Cavalry AND 0 Siege would be nightmarish. Age of Empires 3 actually features the Aztecs without any siege, but in that game, each unit has a separate attack versus buildings, and their Archers would have flaming arrows that sufficed for destroying buildings in that game. In this game, that would be all kinds of horrible. To contrast the Aztecs, the Maya miss Siege Onager but get Heavy Scorpion. Probably because their Eagles and Plumed Archers demolish archers already. They also do not get Siege Engineers, but their defenses are way better. That's a bit later. MONASTERY: no Redemption, no Illumination The Mayan Monks are pretty good, and for good reason. We don't know everything about their religion, but they are the forerunners of much Mesoamerican thought and philosophy. The Maya had lots of sacrificial rites, but often sacrificed food and drink and animals, only rarely humans. They participated in bloodletting. The Priests served a cultural function just like those in the New World, keeping records, teaching writing, maintaining the calendars, etc. So their Monks are strong, just not Aztec strong. DOCKS: no Cannon Galleon Another contrast to the Aztecs are their full Docks. They don't get gunpowder, but interestingly they get Demolition Ships. Actually, the Maya and Aztecs did not have much of a navy, at least not in the European sense. They definitely used the waterways to transport men and supplies, and there was canoe to canoe combat. They had trade routes along the ocean, but no massive galleys or anything like that. The strength of the Mayan Docks could be a nod towards the wild theories of the Maya taking to the seas and going around the Caribbean, spreading their influence there, as well as into the Southern United States and founding the Mississipi Culture and what not. So, uh, yeah. The Mayans are an economical juggernaut in gameplay, so of course they get most of the techs. I'm not sure if this is true or not, but according to Wikipedia, the Maya had lead merchants who would analyze the trade of materials going in and out of their cities, and set prices. The King of a city would also be involved in the trade. The Mayans apparently had a contracter system for mathematicians and engineers. It makes sense that the Mayans are a strong economic civ, and they were probably planned to be THE economic civ of the game, along with the Persians. ------- THAT DON'T FIT GOES HERE WONDER: Temple of Masks, Tikal, Guatemala Contrary to popular belief, the Mayan Wonder is NOT the Temple of the Great Jaguar AKA Temple I at Tikal. The Mayan Wonder much more closely resembles the Temple of the Masks, Temple II of Tikal. Temple I has 9 steps; Temple II has 3, just like the Mayan Wonder. LANGUAGE: Maya This is probably modern Mayan. The Mayan languages form their own language family. The languages of Mesoamerica are really interesting because most of them are unrelated to each other, at least on a macro scale. We can say for certain that Persian is distantly related to English, that Hindi is related to Russian, etc. but we can't say the same for the Mesoamerican ones. We know that the Aztec language is distantly related to various languages spoken in North America, such as the Comanche language or the Shoshone, as well as a few groups in Northern Mexico. The various Oto-Manguean languages of the Zapotecs, Mixtecs, and the Tlapatecs are distinct. source: https://www.reddit.com/r/aoe2/comments/qvfbd/aw_hell_nah_what_up_dawg_gameplay_vs_historicity/?st=iwnb5q8y&sh=da40ad1a

Mistakes by Apocalyto. https://vandenhoogenband.wordpress.com/2014/02/02/everything-wrong-with-mel-gibsons-apocalypto-an-archaeological-standpoint/ --------in AoE------ The Mayan and Aztec civilizations have one, huge difference from the other civs in the game; their lack of Cavalry (they also lack Gunpowder, but so do the British, so they're not unique). Horses were in the Americas for sometime, but in the very distant past about 8000 BC. They were probably hunted to extinction by the ancestors of the Native Americans. mistakes from AoE 2 expansion. The Mayan and Aztec Trade Cart has a funny sprite of a dude pulling a cart behind him. The Eagle Warrior was clearly developed as the equivalent of the Scout line, although the Eagle Warrior is actually an Aztec specific class of warriors, though the Mayans the developers made the Mayans very defense-oriented (they planned for the Maya to be defensive, but the Mayans end up being good at both) and sort of stereotyped them to the tree-hugger Native American, on purpose. This is great because it works with the eurocentric nature of the game AND it makes the two civs, who share lots of similarities, totally different. Many past archaeologists, having not found much evidence for Mayan warfare, assumed the Maya were super peaceful. As evidence of cities being burnt, old weapons, and mass bruial grounds came to light people realized the Maya did engage in war but this bonus is very, very good at playing to the stereotype. The Celts chop down trees quick, the British put up new Towns very quickly, the Teutons and Franks cut down forests and put up lots of Farms, etc. The Mayans are conservative and extract more from the environment. I'll explain the idea of a defensive, peaceful Maya civilization when I get to the tech tree. There isn't really much evidence for the Maya having used lots of Archers. Mesoamerican archery tech was pretty terrible compared to the rest of the world; they didn't have a big animal with strong bones like the West Asians did to make their Composite bows. They didn't have iron-tipped arrows because iron is hard to maintain in that part of the world. The Maya and Aztecs, however, did not lack for strong missile technology. Arguably, their missile tech was just as good as Bows or Crossbows or Cannons of the world. The Spanish dreaded the simple Atlatl The Atlatl was a shaft with a cup to hold the projectile, and the shaft would act as an extension of the arm, held by the hand. Imagine the centrigual force generated by a yo-yo or a nunchuk, now transfer that into a projectile. That's basically how the atlatl worked. The atlatl threw "darts," that were not quite small enough to be arrows, not quite long enough to be javelins. These darts would go straight through Spanish armor, and today's reconstructions can send darts flying over 93 mph (150 kmh). The upper range of a Longbow would be 136 miles per hour (about 219 kmh). That's fairly comparable speeds, especially at mid range, and with a cheaper production cost. I'm sure a Mayan or Aztec atlatl thrower could fire darts as fast as a Longbowman, if not faster. Maybe due to the atlatl, maybe not, but the Maya get a bonus to their decidedly defensive Archers as opposed to the offensive Infantry of the Aztecs. If the game were a bit more historical, the Maya would also be a melee infantry civ. BARRACKS: no Champion The Maya get a pretty good Barracks, lack of Champion notwithstanding. The Mayans would be, if historically accurate, more of a melee Infantry civilization. Now, the Maya get all of the relevant Blacksmith techs (they miss the Cavalry armor ones of course), and that isn't technically accurate. But that's for gameplay. The Maya and Aztec DID have iron, they just didn't use it because it easily rusted in the hot jungles of Mesoamerica. They were excellent metalworkers, and if they needed to, they could easily have made quality iron weapons. They used a few substitutes. In particular were their obsidian weapon. Obsidian is volcanic glass, and it's extremely sharp. It chips and loses it's edge pretty easily but while it's sharp, it's darn sharp. Obsidian is so sharp, it's currently used for surgery! The Maya and Aztecs would stick obsidian blades in wooden clubs and they would perform the same function as swords. The Jaguar Warrior visibly uses such a weapon, but that's for another day. TEAM BONUS: Walls cost -50% A real obvious defensive bonus. Although most of the Mayan cities do not have defensive walls that stand to this day, they existed; take a look at Tulum, which has walls, gates, and towers. The Maya were excellent stone workers, and so this bonus makes even more sense.

War. Although the Maya were once thought to have been peaceful (see below), current theories emphasize the role of inter-polity warfare as a factor in the development and perpetuation of Maya society. The goals and motives of warfare in Maya culture are not thoroughly understood, but scholars have developed models for Maya warfare based on several lines of evidence, including fortified defenses around structure complexes, artistic and epigraphic depictions of war, and the presence weapons such as obsidian blades and projectile points in the archaeological record. Warfare can also be identified from archaeological remains that suggest a rapid and drastic break in a fundamental pattern due to violence. It is thought that enemies would project missiles at long range, then as they advanced on each other, discipline probably declined, allowing individuals to attempt to personal feats of bravery [3] The main body of the population does not appear to have been active in most conflicts unless it involved the overthrow of a ruler. Aguateca is a Classic Maya site located in the south-western Petén department of Guatemala. Aguateca was a member of the Petexbatún States among which included such polities as Seibal, Itzan, Dos Pilas, Cancuén, Tamarindito, Punta de Chimino,and Nacimiento. The city was built on a 90 m. escarpment with defensive fortifications surrounding the city. Archaeological remains, along with epigraphy and iconography at the site reveal an expansion of power and military influence from Aguateca by the ruling dynasty during the 8th century, a period noted for endemic warfare in the region. During this time, 4 km. of defensive walls were hastily constructed concentrically around the site. Misconceptions The prevalent theory on the ancient Maya at the beginning of the 20th century held on to the notion that they had a predominantly peaceful society, idealizing the indigenous culture much like a noble savage. This view erroneously shifted as the result of poorly documented analysis of iconography and the content of Maya script. Maya warfare was a major theme in Apocalypto (2006), directed by Mel Gibson. The film depicts the attack on a small village by warriors from a larger polity for the purpose of capturing men to be sacrificed atop a pyramid during a solar eclipse. The warfare depicted in the film, like most other aspects of Late Postclassic Maya society, should not be taken as factual. Richard Hansen, who acted as the historical consultant for the film, has worked mostly on early Maya civilization, more than a millennium before the time period depicted in the film.[20]

Pyramids Pyramids were used not only as temples and focal points for Maya religious practices where offerings were made to the gods but also as gigantic tombs for deceased rulers, their partners, sacrificial victims, and precious goods. Pyramids were also periodically enlarged so that their interiors, when excavated, sometimes reveal a series of complete but diminishing pyramids, often still with their original coloured stucco decoration. In addition, individual shrines could be amalgamated into a single giant complex over time as Maya rulers attempted to impress their subjects and leave a lasting mark of their reign. A good example of this development can be seen at the North Acropolis of Tikal. Palaces The larger Maya buildings used as palaces and administrative centres, like the temples, very often have sections with corbelled roofing – that is flat stones were piled one upon another, slightly over-lapping so that they formed a narrow enough gap that it could be spanned with a single capstone. Doorways are often multiple and of the post and lintel type in wood (usually sapodilla) or stone. They can also present relief carvings of rulers. Doorways could be carved to represent, for example, the mouth of a fierce monster, as in Structure 22 at Copan and the Pyramid of the Magician at Uxmal. These portals represented the mouths of sacred caves, traditionally considered portals to another world. Finally, besides halls, sleeping quarters, cooking areas, and workshops, some palaces, as at Palenque, also had luxury features such as lavatories and steam rooms. https://archispeaking.net/2015/11/07/historybite-mayan-architecture/#more-1147 Nunnery, Uxmal, Mexico

I think a Ares statue would look very similar to the modern Leonidas statue anyway, so either can to work. As forthe Macedonians, i think Apollo the Sun god would work the best, since the Macedonian dynasty claimed it was descendant to Apollo. the Macedonian royal symbol and civ emblem is the Apollo sun ray. DE has many special technologies for all civs. Glory can be used for them. Like, Hellenistic Metropolis, Antikythera Mechanism, Hegemon, Boeotarch, Archery Tradition, Eagle Standards, Urban Cohorts, Kṣhatriya Warrior Caste, Chanakya's teachings, Secret Police (Krypteia), and more.

I just decided to make a few experiments, something like a 'cursed' swamp or 'cursed' lands, i think it look kinda wierd, mostly the water colour.

The ShC2 physics engine is useless, it puts up a performance wall for lower end systems and that's about it. A custom animation would be needed for every single wall segment and variation, which would take a very long time.

Hey guys, Here is a teaser on another map I have been working on since a few time. Crete Island. This should be nice for 4 players. Here is Crete: And here is my ongoing map: As usual, I tried to do my best to respect the topography, with exact coast drawing, hills/mountain position, and even respecting the oceanographic topography. So players can start from Heraklio, Rethymno, Agios Nikolaos, and Chania. Obvioulsy, I need some more work on texturing and stuff. Actually, what I really have in mind is to set up a campaign on the island, based on the history of the Island. Here are the major points of the campaign I have in mind : Sparta, Athen, and Macedonians will start to fight on a first scenario (Crete1) - almost a squirmish mode with these 3 factions - it will correspond to the conquest of Crete Mynoian people by The Greek Roma attacks the Island and fight established factions (Crete 2) - a scenario with a map including fortified Athenians - it will correspond to the attack in 67 AD by Roma. Persians attacks the Island and fight established Romanians camps (Crete3) - a scenario with fortified Romanians structures, much more difficult to conquer than the previous scenario with an appropriate design - it will correspond to the conquest in 400 by the Byzantin empire (they were actualy a mix of tribes, slavs and vandals, but the closest faction available in the game is Persians/Achaemenid faction). So what is required to create a campaign ? Is a succession of scenarios ok ? What are the major problems with campaign and are some campaigns already planned ? Is my project possible and compatible with your objectives ? Looking forward your feedback, thanks!

Still improving the map. Some areas are now even more close to the reality (sitia, messara, chania, lassihti, etc..). I tried a few skirmishes modes, with 4 CC on the map for testing purposes. Despite the little room available at start, it is easy to build consequent cities (as usual, AI naturally put some new buildings and colonize places that are actually real cities on Crete, that's funny): It is possible to build quite big armies, and the landscapes allows also to set up surprise attack (eg. not only naval, but also along the south rocky coast, however, units will be naturally slowed down there). My tests were fun, I will now start to set up the three scenarios I did describe in the first post.

Crossroads (4) A forest map with numerous road junctions. The woodlands are rich in natural resources and is suitable for foraging and hunting. This map was created using the technique that I discussed at, Map overview (Reduced fog level in the map overview screenshot to help visualize the whole map) Screenshots Thanks to niektb, crossroads.zip