Introducing the Official community mod for Alpha 26

[Acanthis]

Regarding CC cost, would it be possible to use civ bonuses to equalize the cost?

If one is worried that stone heavy civs like, say Athens, would be at a disadvantage could there be a bonus which reduces the cost of a CC by x amount of stone, but increases the cost of say metal as compensation?

[wraitii]

It's a bit difficult for me to know what should be merged here since there the forum discussion is long & not many people are voting on gitlab.

How about I make a forum Poll with the different merge requests and people vote there directly ?

[alre]

47 minutes ago, wraitii said:

It's a bit difficult for me to know what should be merged here since there the forum discussion is long & not many people are voting on gitlab.

How about I make a forum Poll with the different merge requests and people vote there directly ?

no hurry wratii, there's time.

these forum discussions are faster than testing.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

7 hours ago, wraitii said:

not many people are voting on gitlab.

how do you vote? I just give a thumbs up.

[Lion.Kanzen]

8 hours ago, wraitii said:

not many people are voting on gitlab.

it would be nice to share links to those ideas,proposals.

[Fabius]

So I had an idea for making area damage viable on catapults without having the levels we had in A23.

Simply put, reduce the damage by around 50 - 75% of the current total,

add some splash damage to that new total,

and then add a big bonus multiplier against buildings.

And if anyone is concerned regarding the possibility of high indirect splash damage to troops around a building, simply put it down to chunks of falling masonry landing on their heads.

(this was first done on ships where the damage was a dropped and a multiplier against ships added.)

[real_tabasco_sauce]

1 hour ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

it would be nice to share links to those ideas,proposals.

https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests

I just tested the 4 merge requests I made, all are functioning as intended.

Edited October 15, 2022 by real_tabasco_sauce

[Lion.Kanzen]

7 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests

I just tested the 4 merge requests I made, all are functioning as intended.

Now the question is how to vote?

[real_tabasco_sauce]

click one of the merge requests and u should see thumbs up/thumbs down.

I believe this is "upvoting" vs "downvoting"

[real_tabasco_sauce]

i think you might need an account, which is unfortunate. I think for that reason it might be better to vote here. @wraitii

[Lion.Kanzen]

2 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

i think you might need an account, which is unfortunate. I think for that reason it might be better to vote here. @wraitii

Yes, I don't have an account yet.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

I imagine this will not be ready before the next release of the community mod, but I would like to do an update to team bonuses. I have started the project but not yet uploaded to Gitlab. The goal is to implement strong, generally applicable bonuses that allow for different gameplay options depending on a team's civ matchup.

1. Athens: -15% ship cost -> "Democracy" Civic centers -50% technology research time and -30% cost.

2. Seleucids: Civic centers -20% resources cost -> -20% resource and -20% build time.

I need ideas for Britons, Persians, and Han first. Other team bonus ideas are welcome.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

On 15/10/2022 at 4:20 PM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

1. Athens: -15% ship cost -> "Democracy" Civic centers -50% technology research time and -30% cost.

2. Seleucids: Civic centers -20% resources cost -> -20% resource and -20% build time.

https://gitlab.com/real_tabasco_sauce/0-a-d-community-mod-unit-specific-upgrades/-/commit/0590b62be8e473c70ad05b47070b5bc09e52b440

I am thinking for persia: +10% hp for ranged cavalry, kind of like the spartan bonus.

other possibilities:

• cavalry 2X carry capacity (20 food -> 40)
• stables and barracks discount? call it "training regimes."

I like this last one the best.

Still no ideas for britons

Edited October 17, 2022 by real_tabasco_sauce

[Philip the Swaggerless]

33 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

I am thinking for persia: +10% hp for ranged cavalry, kind of like the spartan bonus.

I think that ranged cav are the best units this alpha, so I caution against buffing them.

I would rather see changes made to make trading more important.

[chrstgtr]

11 minutes ago, Philip the Swaggerless said:

I think that ranged cav are the best units this alpha, so I caution against buffing them.

That just means those units need to be better balanced. 

I would be fine with any of the options proposed by @real_tabasco_sauce.

The carry capacity one would be an interesting p1 buff that could make their gameplay a little more interesting. It could also have a non-noticeable game impact, though.

46 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

Still no ideas for britons

Old building pop bonus from a23? Or can we apply that elsewhere? That was one of the more unique and fun bonuses imo

[real_tabasco_sauce]

@chrstgtr i'm not sure how well that would go down as a team bonus. As for carry capacity, the minimal game impact was my concern as well, so thats why I think the barracks/stable cost could be good for pers.

3 hours ago, Philip the Swaggerless said:

I would rather see changes made to make trading more important.

I think for trade to be important there may need to changes to the trading system as a whole.

Currently Persia has a civ bonus of +25% trade gain and a team bonus of +15 percent trade gain, and still trade is not the reason to play Persia. Replacing the +15% team bonus with something else impactful won't change the usage of trade.

[chrstgtr]

20 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

@chrstgtr i'm not sure how well that would go down as a team bonus. As for carry capacity, the minimal game impact was my concern as well, so thats why I think the barracks/stable cost could be good for pers.

I think for trade to be important there may need to changes to the trading system as a whole.

Currently Persia has a civ bonus of +25% trade gain and a team bonus of +15 percent trade gain, and still trade is not the reason to play Persia. Replacing the +15% team bonus with something else impactful won't change the usage of trade.

Ah, I was think civ bonus—not team bonus. My mistake. 
 

For trade, I think making traders=0 pop would be a good first step. Right now trade isn’t viable because it slows growth at the cost of men. It’s a good long term play but picking that strat usually means you never get to late game. We could set a trader limit to prevent it from getting OP

[real_tabasco_sauce]

I like the idea for trade, maybe this is something I could work on later for the community mod. If we can get an idea for britons, I could go ahead and make a merge request for the team bonuses?

Any others that are way too weak?

[chrstgtr]

39 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

I like the idea for trade, maybe this is something I could work on later for the community mod. If we can get an idea for britons, I could go ahead and make a merge request for the team bonuses?

Any others that are way too weak?

Athens

Brits

Carth

Han

Kush

Most of them really. But a lot of it is fixing underlying problems with trade/healers 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Well, I think athens is pretty good now:

"democracy" CC techs (including phase up) -50% research time -30% cost.

Carthage could maybe be a more impactful trade bonus, potentially: cheaper, faster training traders, markets too maybe.

I think kush is acceptable (maybe just an improvement like I did for seles), which really leaves brits, Han, and probably mauryans.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

8 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

• stables and barracks discount? call it "training regimes."

I like this last one the best.

ok 3 team bonuses down: https://gitlab.com/real_tabasco_sauce/0-a-d-community-mod-unit-specific-upgrades/-/commit/9c73d5e1cd3e8c6b6c5a28431982c27e04066934

for carthage perhaps: -50% mercentary train time.

in the repository now.

Edited October 18, 2022 by real_tabasco_sauce

[Darkcity]

I believe "for carthage perhaps: -50% mercentary train time." This is historical accurate upgrade actually. Since carthages heavily relay on merce for war. insteand of -50% if we can have -20% train time :p. Anyways good work on keeping track of change on what is agreed and not.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

Hi @Darkcity thanks for the feedback! I was thinking 50% would be good since it would have a significant effect on gameplay, but 20% or 25% is a safer option. My thoughts are this: if we test the bonus at 50%, we can always bring it down to 30% or 25% as needed. But if we test the bonus at 25% it might not be very interesting for gameplay and then I bet people won't try it out.

Also:

for some reason, with 50% reduction in train time, infantry train in 7->5 seconds, and cavalry from 11->7 seconds. It's not 50% interestingly so its not as strong as expected XD. I'm wondering if there is some other factor at work. It is a significant difference, however.

Edited October 18, 2022 by real_tabasco_sauce

[borg-]

13 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

I like the idea for trade, maybe this is something I could work on later for the community mod. If we can get an idea for britons, I could go ahead and make a merge request for the team bonuses?

Any others that are way too weak?

• Guerrila: The preponderance of throwing spears, and the near total absence of body armour, indicate that the style of warfare was highly mobile and loosely formed, based around raiding and short. Javelins +10% movement speed.
• New healer aura: Deas Celtica: Soldiers +10% attack damage.
• Javelin infantry moved to village phase. Increases the number of units available to early rush, also historical accuracy of the predominance of javelins.
• Fortress can be built in neutral territory. There were small villages with centralized fortresses. With the root territory of the fortress, it is possible to build small bases, great for small attacks with chariots and other units.

Some new technology Sevili Dusios / bodypainting tech.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

7 minutes ago, borg- said:

• Guerrila: The preponderance of throwing spears, and the near total absence of body armour, indicate that the style of warfare was highly mobile and loosely formed, based around raiding and short. Javelins +10% movement speed.
• New healer aura: Deas Celtica: Soldiers +10% attack damage.
• Javelin infantry moved to village phase. Increases the number of units available to early rush, also historical accuracy of the predominance of javelins.
• Fortress can be built in neutral territory. There were small villages with centralized fortresses. With the root territory of the fortress, it is possible to build small bases, great for small attacks with chariots and other units.

Some new technology Sevili Dusios / bodypainting tech.

These sound great for civ specific bonuses, but I am wondering what kind of team bonus they should get. Did you intend this to be the Team bonus for britons? I would like to see something that has dual military and economic purpose, but I haven't thought of any good ones myself.