AoE 2 Expansion: Indian Dynasties similarities to 0ad

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

Some interesting similarities to 0ad things. In the video there are:

• buildings to build along trade routes, which heal and speed up traders.
• Garrisoning livestock in mills to generate food at a slow rate. 
• Rath Chariots (can switch weapons from archer to swordsmen)
• elephants that are used more as rams than general battle units.

Hmmmm. Tell me what you think.

Edited April 15, 2022 by BreakfastBurrito_007

[Gurken Khan]

  On 14/04/2022 at 11:48 PM, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

Tell me what you think.

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That you should've linked the vid you're talking about.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

Forgot. lol. Its in there now.

[Gurken Khan]

  On 14/04/2022 at 11:48 PM, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

Some interesting similarities to 0ad things.

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Yeah, total 0AD ripoff!

I see some similar ideas to what we have in the game, some we've been discussing for years, some we have dropped. I don't know how unique they've been anyway and I don't think the similarity is too striking.

[Stan`]

Some old devs of 0 A.D. worked for age of empires IIRC

[Grapjas]

  On 14/04/2022 at 11:48 PM, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

elephants that are used more as rams than general battle units.

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Not great imo. Maybe a bonus against gates but thats it. They should be shock unit, not a siege unit.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

Yea. I agree the similarities are definitely not enough to argue ripoff, especially considering these things have been discussed as concepts in probably a few games. Seeing a few of these things in the same expansion was pretty interesting though.

 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

  On 15/04/2022 at 1:50 PM, Grapjas said:

Not great imo. Maybe a bonus against gates but thats it. They should be shock unit, not a siege unit.

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since all civs have rams, what if eles were made a less effective against buildings (not as good as rams, accounting for cost), but gain a small semicircle (or triangle?) of hack splash damage, not enough to 1 hit most units, but enough to do a lot of damage. I think this would further differentiate eles from rams, making them more of a "shock unit." How best to deal the damage to multiple enemies, however, is unclear.

[Fabius]

  On 15/04/2022 at 3:37 PM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

since all civs have rams, what if eles were made a less effective against buildings (not as good as rams, accounting for cost), but gain a small semicircle (or triangle?) of hack splash damage, not enough to 1 hit most units, but enough to do a lot of damage. I think this would further differentiate eles from rams, making them more of a "shock unit." How best to deal the damage to multiple enemies, however, is unclear.

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Do that and you'll see much more elephant doom stacks than currently, especially as units tend to overlap and any kind of splash damage changes things considerably. Still its a good idea  

[LetswaveaBook]

I think you need to accept that the product will be unrealistic if you have a game where cavalry and elephant´s can´t move and attack at the same time.

What I think about AoE 2 development? The developer added enough dis-likable balance features to the game for me to say that the end result is worse than what they started with.

 

[soloooy0]

  On 14/04/2022 at 11:48 PM, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

• Rath Chariots (can switch weapons from archer to swordsmen)

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this function is long overdue for the champion charriots, even though it would make them more expensive 
for technology, changeover time or cost in individual metal. 
 

[AIEND]

  On 15/04/2022 at 3:37 PM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

由于所有文明都有公羊，如果 eles 对建筑物的效果较差（不如公羊，考虑到成本），但获得一个小的半圆（或三角形？）劈溅伤害，不足以击中大多数单位，但足以造成很大的伤害。 我认为这将进一步区分 eles 和 rams，使它们更像是一个“冲击单元”。 然而，如何最好地对多个敌人造成伤害尚不清楚。

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I tried this idea in the mod, and I think it's not bad, at least it's more suitable than aura.

[AIEND]

  On 15/04/2022 at 6:11 PM, Fabius said:

这样做，你会看到比现在更多的大象末日堆栈，特别是当单位倾向于重叠并且任何类型的飞溅伤害都会显着改变事情时。 仍然是个好主意  

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When the tactical positioning of the war elephant changes, its cost and the restraint relationship of other units should also be adjusted. You can try my bright mirror mod。

[AIEND]

  On 15/04/2022 at 6:37 PM, soloooy0 said:

对于冠军战车来说，这个功能早就应该使用了，尽管它会使它们变得更加昂贵
单个金属的技术、转换时间或成本。
 

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I think it's rather strange, you can hardly attack the enemy with such a short sword on a chariot, they should have made the chariot like the Bulgarian cavalry, which will drop a samurai after being killed.

[soloooy0]

  On 15/04/2022 at 6:54 PM, AIEND said:

Creo que es bastante extraño, difícilmente puedes atacar al enemigo con una espada tan corta en un carro, deberían haber hecho el carro como la caballería búlgara, que dejará caer a un samurái después de ser asesinado.

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I was referring to the melee and distance function of the chariot campions.
not with a sword, but with a spear 
 

Edited April 15, 2022 by soloooy0

[Grapjas]

  On 15/04/2022 at 6:13 PM, LetswaveaBook said:

I think you need to accept that the product will be unrealistic if you have a game where cavalry and elephant´s can´t move and attack at the same time.

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I mean it's not impossible just hasn't been done yet. IIRC there was work on it, just need animators to beautify it. Just because something isn't in the game doesn't mean you need to throw every realistic or logical thing out the window. It also just shows that not a whole lot of people are actually coding/contributing to the game.

  On 15/04/2022 at 6:11 PM, Fabius said:

Do that and you'll see much more elephant doom stacks than currently, especially as units tend to overlap and any kind of splash damage changes things considerably. Still its a good idea  

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There are a number of ways to balance this, e.g. limit the max number of targets it can splash hit to something like 3, and lower the damage against the units that were indirectly hit (maybe 1/2 of the direct damage). 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

  On 15/04/2022 at 6:11 PM, Fabius said:

Do that and you'll see much more elephant doom stacks than currently, especially as units tend to overlap and any kind of splash damage changes things considerably. Still its a good idea

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this can be balanced accordingly. Siege tower doom stacks occur too, but they are so expensive nobody really tries. I still think this is a more interesting role than quasi-rams

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

  On 15/04/2022 at 6:13 PM, LetswaveaBook said:

What I think about AoE 2 development? The developer added enough dis-likable balance features to the game for me to say that the end result is worse than what they started with.

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What is your least favorite balance thing in Aoe2? I saw a video from Spirit of the Law where he talked about how attack-move might be a bit op. He said it gives so much extra speed to archers while they move and shoot that it makes it too hard for them to be targeted by melee pathfinding.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

  On 15/04/2022 at 9:33 PM, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

What is your least favorite balance thing in Aoe2?

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I don't like the super hard counters.

Edited April 16, 2022 by real_tabasco_sauce

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

  On 16/04/2022 at 4:07 AM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

I don't like the super hard counters.

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The 0 A.D. community does indeed seem deeply divided by this issue. In my view though at least with "super hard" counters you can ensure every unit type is good for something.

Back in my AOE2 clan days I was a maniac with the Briton Longbows. lol

[AIEND]

  On 15/04/2022 at 7:25 PM, soloooy0 said:

我指的是战车营地的近战和距离功能。
不是用剑，而是用矛
 

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I'm not sure how other countries fight with spears on chariots except China, the Chinese are using a 5.54 meter pike.

[Freagarach]

  On 15/04/2022 at 8:20 PM, Grapjas said:

lower the damage against the units that were indirectly hit (maybe 1/2 of the direct damage).

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Area damage already reduces based on the distance to the origin of the damage. (Units farther away from the point of impact receive less damage.)

[LetswaveaBook]

  On 15/04/2022 at 9:33 PM, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

What is your least favorite balance thing in Aoe2? I saw a video from Spirit of the Law where he talked about how attack-move might be a bit op. He said it gives so much extra speed to archers while they move and shoot that it makes it too hard for them to be targeted by melee pathfinding.

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In The Conquors expansion for AoE , most civilizations had a tech tree that gave both options and liabilities. But with the balance changes, the liabilities were softened. This makes that the different tech trees become less unique and the game becomes age of eco bonuses.

[soloooy0]

  On 16/04/2022 at 5:37 AM, AIEND said:

I'm not sure how other countries fight with spears on chariots except China, the Chinese are using a 5.54 meter pike.

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well, they could be shot on the move, the cart must have some benefit over the horse. 

[AIEND]

  On 16/04/2022 at 5:55 PM, soloooy0 said:

好吧，他们可以在移动中被枪杀，马车一定比马有好处。 

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The biggest advantage of the chariot is that it can provide a stable archery platform. With the popularization of horseback archery, the role of the chariot is reduced.