Gaia is a troll, Iberians are bigger trolls

[Yekaterina]

Have you ever been in a situation where you win a game but your enemy's gaia destroys you after they resign?  

When a player resigns, their remaining gaia forces attack any remaining players irrespective of who they are, causing huge distraction and annoyance to the players. I had been in a situation, where I was prevailing and the enemies resigned, but the enemy gaia units all converged on my army and killed everything. Sometimes the hostile gaia can change the outcome of a game! A player resigning in their allies' base = killing their allies = trolling. In A24 a guy called lennin (was my ally) walked into my base and resigned, then his gaia champions killed all of my infantry units and turned my team from a winning position to a definite loss. If he resigned elsewhere then my team could have stood a very good chance of winning a 3v4. 

So, I suggest a change: gaia units are passive or standground instead of aggressive; gaia buildings don't shoot at player's units. Or, even better, when a player resigns, all of their units die instantly instead of becoming the gaia units that troll everyone. This will prevent players like lennin from hurting his own allies. 

 

Now onto Iberians. This is a troll civ. Apart from the fire cav, their walls troll both the Iberian player and anyone trying to attack them. 

Sometimes the wall spawn right through a fruit tree or  patch of berries; at other times units get stuck while passing through the wall gates. They often spawn across the optimal area for farms as well, hurting your late game eco unless you delete some walls. 

When enemy units come, the doors might let them in! This is not helpful for the Iberian player as you can suddenly get 10 spearcavs killing everyone on your farms, meanwhile for the enemy, after the 10 cavs kill the women, they are trapped in there forever and will certainly die to enemy cc's arrows.

If an Iberian player resigns, their gaia walls are a huge obstruction for anyone trying to make use of the new territory available. I have also seen posts reporting that gaia walls can trap you units inside it so that your army gets stuck there and shot by a gaia CC. Their fortresses and towers are so OP that suddenly both teams find themselves having to travers a no-man's land where it rains gaia arrows. This is hugely inconvenient as well. 

Proposed changes: gaia Iberian walls convert instantly. 

gaia iberian gates open for anyone trying to pass through

Combine these two with the non-hostile gaia change, this troll issue will be fixed.  

 

Edited February 2, 2022 by Yekaterina

[MarcusAureliu#s]

I agree with the first part

[Dakara]

I find the current operation suitable, so no change. Didn't play with people who surrender.

Ibers not a problem

I find it good to see the remains of a defeated player.

[alre]

wall gates do work strangely.

[Stan`]

1 hour ago, alre said:

wall gates do work strangely.

?

[Lion.Kanzen]

in those cases Gaia should pass to allied property.

[Yekaterina]

1 hour ago, Stan` said:

?

They let half of enemy units in then suddenly close on the latter half  

 

[Dakara]

The opponent must leave a unit in position to hold the position so that the door does not close

[Player of 0AD]

16 hours ago, Stan` said:

?

I've gotten the impression that objects like trees which are close to the gate keep an open gate open. So in that case you must keep an eye on the gate or remove that object early. Or keep the gate closed.

Actually I think that if a player resigns or gets defeated, all of his units and buildings could vanish instead of becoming gaia.

Iberians dont need a lot of changes, but objects like apple trees shoulnt be able to spawn inside gates, walls and wall towers - they should rather get small a distance. (With "inside walls" i dont mean inside the circle but in the interior of the wall so they are blocked by the wall)

[Yekaterina]

1 hour ago, Player of 0AD said:

all of his units and buildings could vanish instead of becoming gaia.

OP idea! we can definitely use more space on Mainland

looting gaia is dishonourable

[wackyserious]

Remember how Warcraft 3 had Neutral and Hostile type of player/faction, that'd be great if we could have something similar.

Also my proposition before if it would be possible to add obstruction to actor files in Atlas so that you can have scenarios or maps where there are houses as part of the graphic elements of the map and they are just there, not capturable or destroyable, just map features that can add flavor to the game like having small town of village skirmishes or something similar.

[Lion.Kanzen]

47 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

Remember how Warcraft 3 had Neutral and Hostile type of player/faction, that'd be great if we could have something similar.

Also my proposition before if it would be possible to add obstruction to actor files in Atlas so that you can have scenarios or maps where there are houses as part of the graphic elements of the map and they are just there, not capturable or destroyable, just map features that can add flavor to the game like having small town of village skirmishes or something similar.

it would be necessary to let the stage and the map give attributes to the objects.

In Empire earth you could change the HP or the attack damage.

[Stan`]

5 hours ago, wackyserious said:

Also my proposition before if it would be possible to add obstruction to actor files in Atlas so that you can have scenarios or maps where there are houses as part of the graphic elements of the map and they are just there, not capturable or destroyable, just map features that can add flavor to the game like having small town of village skirmishes or something similar.

You can already do that with some templates.

[wackyserious]

1 hour ago, Stan` said:

You can already do that with some templates.

Should we green light this experiment? This would be interesting for campaign and scenario maps

[Stan`]

4 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

Should we green light this experiment? This would be interesting for campaign and scenario maps

Well we added special templates as blockers in the last alpha. I suppose it might be a bit confusing for players to have non interactable buildings.

[wackyserious]

1 minute ago, Stan` said:

Well we added special templates as blockers in the last alpha. I suppose it might be a bit confusing for players to have non interactable buildings.

Maybe for campaign purposes and not in normal gameplay, or minimal use in maps, maybe a slow integration or a showcase map/scenario for it?

[Stan`]

I think in order for them to be integrated we need to have a campaign map for it  or something using it.

[Yekaterina]

8 hours ago, wackyserious said:

Also my proposition before if it would be possible to add obstruction to actor files in Atlas so that you can have scenarios or maps where there are houses as part of the graphic elements of the map and they are just there, not capturable or destroyable, just map features that can add flavor to the game like having small town of village skirmishes or something similar.

Do you mean solid houses that cannot be captured or destroyed, like rocks on terrains? That would be quite inconvenient and helps trolls who build all over the place. 

If units can go through these houses, it will be weird...

[wackyserious]

3 minutes ago, Yekaterina said:

Do you mean solid houses that cannot be captured or destroyed, like rocks on terrains? That would be quite inconvenient and helps trolls who build all over the place. 

If units can go through these houses, it will be weird...

No like just for eyecandy and if used in maps, only for scenarios just like a scenario where it is urban combat and you don't want the houses to be falling apart, the main function of these actor files with obstructions is for eyecandy and missions and not to be used in a disadvantageous ways in single player/multi player maps

[wackyserious]

1 hour ago, Stan` said:

I think in order for them to be integrated we need to have a campaign map for it  or something using it.

I was thinking of a single campaign map for the following

1.) Sulla's Civil War (Where build is disabled and two armies will have to eliminate one another in the streets of a Roman city)

2.) Serville War (Same with first concept but player can play as the Slave rebels using the rome_infantry_swordsman_slave as units)

3.) Helot Wars

[Gurken Khan]

57 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

No like just for eyecandy

Isn't already used for example in Ardenne Forrest?

[Stan`]

24 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

Isn't already used for example in Ardenne Forrest?

IIRC those buildings are passable.

[Gurken Khan]

4 minutes ago, Stan` said:

IIRC those buildings are passable.

Because of the environment one can't reach them, but one can't even select them and I don't think they're destructible.

[Stan`]

5 minutes ago, Gurken Khan said:

Because of the environment one can't reach them, but one can't even select them and I don't think they're destructible.

Yeah, so basically the same + obstruction.

[Yekaterina]

A winning game was lost because the iberian gates sucked my Spartan army into it then closed and my whole army was stuck in the cc fire zone. I couldn't move them out to help my allies and eventually they were weakened by cc fire and were cleaned up by a small contingent of Roman javs.  

This clearly isn't the intended mechanic. All of the units from the iberian side died and his eco was destroyed, and realistically, you won't let an entire enemy army of 140 units through your wall gate. 

So a fix must be applied or this civ has to be banned from TGs. 

Suggestion:

1. If you really insist on giving them walls, then make a new passability class of 'iber wall' and only give iberian units passability over the wall gates; all other units are banned from crossing. That should fix the issue. The we can add an Iberian team bonus of allowing ally units to pass through wall gates

2. Make the gates close instantly so that no enemy unit can follow through by accident. Currently, the Spartan army can follow 1 iberian woman into the gate and hold the gate open for the rest of the Spartans. If the gate closes in 0.0001 second then there is no chance any Spartans can get in. 

Otherwise, remove the walls and give them some other unique bonus (NOT FIRECAV NEITHER)!