Feature: Hero Upgrades

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Ptolemy III Euergetes

Ptolemy III the Benefactor

Aura/Bonus 1: "Conquest of Babylon": Nearby Soldiers +20% attack vs. Buildings (can auras affect attack bonuses? @Freagarach?)

Aura/Bonus 2: "Serapeum": Technologies -25% research time while Ptolemy lives

Tech: "Decree of Canopus":  Egyptian Priests +50% health, +50% healing range

Mount: Ptolemy III rides his war horse Laodice when upgraded

Edited August 16, 2020 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Freagarach]

6 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

(can auras affect attack bonuses? @Freagarach?)

Actually, no Even if you'd add it (Attacking.js-helper, "GetAttackEffectsData") you cannot add a new bonus, as far as I know, but you could add a general non-bonus (x1 vs Unit) and modify that with an aura (would mean you cannot alter bonuses with two different auras probably).

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

34 minutes ago, Freagarach said:

Actually, no Even if you'd add it (Attacking.js-helper, "GetAttackEffectsData") you cannot add a new bonus, as far as I know, but you could add a general non-bonus (x1 vs Unit) and modify that with an aura (would mean you cannot alter bonuses with two different auras probably).

What would that aura syntax look like?

[Freagarach]

Probably something along the lines of:

	"modifications": [
		{ "value": "Attack/<Ranged|Melee|Capture>/Bonuses/<NameOfTheBonus>/Classes", "replace": "Building" },
		{ "value": "Attack/<Ranged|Melee|Capture>/Bonuses/<NameOfTheBonus>/Multiplier", "multiply": 5 },
	],

To add 5x damage against buildings. But then again, one needs to add support for modifying classes in bonuses first (apperently there is already support to change the multiplier (rP22346)).

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

6 minutes ago, Freagarach said:

Probably something along the lines of:

	"modifications": [
		{ "value": "Attack/<Ranged|Melee|Capture>/Bonuses/<NameOfTheBonus>/Classes", "replace": "Building" },
		{ "value": "Attack/<Ranged|Melee|Capture>/Bonuses/<NameOfTheBonus>/Multiplier", "multiply": 5 },
	],

To add 5x damage against buildings. But then again, one needs to add support for modifying classes in bonuses first (apperently there is already support to change the multiplier (rP22346)).

Right, I would just do as you originally proposed and give the entities 1x attack bonuses so they can be modified later with this aura.  

[AeonAnimus]

This is a cool project, I do have 1 proposition for the Kushites, you could possibly use: Abraha, a famed Himyarite/Axumite Military General of ~550AD who conquered parts of Yemen, ruled over much of Arabia, and supposedly led a failed invasion of Mecca. He attempted to establish a Christian center of pilgrimage in Yemen to compete with Mecca, and his reason for waging war on Mecca was to defeat his primary competitor. Although he is a bit later than a lot of heroes in the game, he would be a noteworthy addition to the Kushites (who are the predecessors of the Axumites). Notably, Abraha supposedly rode on a white Elephant named Mahmud during his military campaigns. You can read more about him on his wikipedia page, below I put a suggestion for abilities:

1. Religious Zealot - Abraha has a healing Aura (use standard temple healing ratios)

2.Duelist - 50% effectiveness against enemy heroes (This may be unbalanced but I saw it on Alexander IIRC, perhaps needs to be lower due to healing aura.)

3. Synod of Sa'na (Al-Qalis Church) - Build a single Temple complex that also functions as a marketplace (xx% trade boost?) (This is supposedly the location of some partial ruins of the Church, you could design a grander structure after the Yemeni style of buildings seen in the background, perhaps with a market place in the center. https://ibb.co/3WvTxwx)

4. Mount - Mahmud the White Elephant (^.^)

[drsingh]

On 7/12/2020 at 10:10 PM, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Bindusara is a good option. Chanakya is a secondary hero, trainable from the palace or temple when you choose Chandragupta.

Porus would be a great Atlas hero for scenarios or skirmish maps if someone @Alexandermb @wackyserious wanted to help me make him.

 

I wouldn't mind having swapping unit rosters (Classical/Hellenistic) based on if you train Cleomenes or not, but I don't want to do it until there's a way to make items disappear out of the gui. For example, I don't want the barracks and blacksmith and fortress to have a bunch of grayed out Hellenistic stuff if you chose Leonidas. For now I created a happy medium. If we get that ability to remove items from the production queue ui, then I'm all for your idea. Consider it on the back burner until the UI code is extended.

 

I would like to make some suggestions for Mauryan heroes.

Bindusara should be the third hero.

Ashok can be split into 2 versions of the king. Like i mentioned here before-

 

Porus or Dhana Nanda could be considered as additional heroes, but less info is available about them to help decide bonuses.

Dhana Nanda was the last Nanda ruler with a big empire, and powerful military that scared alexander's soldiers. He was later overthrown by Chandragupta Maurya under guidance of Chanakya(he was humiliated in court). Chandragupta Maurya is speculated to be grandson of one of Nanda's cousins. They had same territories, and culture is same. Only difference is name of dynasty- Nanda from Maurya because of name of founder.

Dhana Nanda could be connecting link in a Campaign starting from Macedonia to End of Ashoka's conquest into pacifism.

 

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Bindusara will definitely be their 3rd selectable hero. 

[av93]

On 8/22/2020 at 8:51 AM, AeonAnimus said:

This is a cool project, I do have 1 proposition for the Kushites, you could possibly use: Abraha, a famed Himyarite/Axumite Military General of ~550AD who conquered parts of Yemen, ruled over much of Arabia, and supposedly led a failed invasion of Mecca. He attempted to establish a Christian center of pilgrimage in Yemen to compete with Mecca, and his reason for waging war on Mecca was to defeat his primary competitor. Although he is a bit later than a lot of heroes in the game, he would be a noteworthy addition to the Kushites (who are the predecessors of the Axumites). Notably, Abraha supposedly rode on a white Elephant named Mahmud during his military campaigns. You can read more about him on his wikipedia page, below I put a suggestion for abilities:

1. Religious Zealot - Abraha has a healing Aura (use standard temple healing ratios)

2.Duelist - 50% effectiveness against enemy heroes (This may be unbalanced but I saw it on Alexander IIRC, perhaps needs to be lower due to healing aura.)

3. Synod of Sa'na (Al-Qalis Church) - Build a single Temple complex that also functions as a marketplace (xx% trade boost?) (This is supposedly the location of some partial ruins of the Church, you could design a grander structure after the Yemeni style of buildings seen in the background, perhaps with a market place in the center. https://ibb.co/3WvTxwx)

4. Mount - Mahmud the White Elephant (^.^)

out of historical time of the mod

[Sundiata]

20 hours ago, AeonAnimus said:

This is a cool project, I do have 1 proposition for the Kushites, you could possibly use: Abraha, a famed Himyarite/Axumite Military General of ~550AD who conquered parts of Yemen, ruled over much of Arabia, and supposedly led a failed invasion of Mecca. He attempted to establish a Christian center of pilgrimage in Yemen to compete with Mecca, and his reason for waging war on Mecca was to defeat his primary competitor. Although he is a bit later than a lot of heroes in the game, he would be a noteworthy addition to the Kushites (who are the predecessors of the Axumites). Notably, Abraha supposedly rode on a white Elephant named Mahmud during his military campaigns.

Abraha is not a Kushite but an Aksumite, and the Kushites are not predecessors of the Aksumites either. They're distinct peoples with distinct cultures, languages, religions, ethnogeneses, architecture, and history in general. They actually went to war with each other a few times and there was probably trade. Cultural exchanges did probably occur, but they're relatively superficial. Not that there's no relation at all, but nothing tangibly relevant to game-development. I'd strongly suggest to keep any Aksumite references for a possible future Aksumite faction, either in the main game if the timeline is ever expanded to c. 500 AD, or in a mod like a future version of Millennium AD. (Kingdom of Axum: c. 80 BC - 940 AD)

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

On 8/17/2020 at 3:24 AM, Freagarach said:

Probably something along the lines of:

	"modifications": [
		{ "value": "Attack/<Ranged|Melee|Capture>/Bonuses/<NameOfTheBonus>/Classes", "replace": "Building" },
		{ "value": "Attack/<Ranged|Melee|Capture>/Bonuses/<NameOfTheBonus>/Multiplier", "multiply": 5 },
	],

To add 5x damage against buildings. But then again, one needs to add support for modifying classes in bonuses first (apperently there is already support to change the multiplier (rP22346)).

I just tested this (the multiplier) and it works as we discussed. Thank you!

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Aristides the Just now added to the Athenian hero selection (Socrates is now a separate type of hero that can be trained after researching Philosophia at the Stoa). 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Kushite hero selection implemented:

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

As a minor point in how I would change the name of one of the abilities of Themistocles, I would have Naval Architect be replaced by "Wooden Walls," a reference to the supposed Oracle of Delphi.  

In the case of the Piraeus Fortifications, it seems a bit odd to increase the hitpoints.  Themistocles was famous for stopping Sparta from halting construction of the Athenian walls, a point in which speed was key.  If anything, I would increase the speed of construction.

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

5 hours ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

As a minor point in how I would change the name of one of the abilities of Themistocles, I would have Naval Architect be replaced by "Wooden Walls," a reference to the supposed Oracle of Delphi.  

Well, there's also his naval program that built up the Athenian navy, a crucial element of Athenian (and Greek) history. We need a specific Naval hero for them and that's where Naval Architect comes from. Athenians have the Mines of Laureion bonus and Long Walls tech. 

 

5 hours ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said:

In the case of the Piraeus Fortifications, it seems a bit odd to increase the hitpoints.  Themistocles was famous for stopping Sparta from halting construction of the Athenian walls, a point in which speed was key.  If anything, I would increase the speed of construction.

I agree here, but now we may start running into some bad exploits. Long Walls + Piraeus Fortifications = possible game breaking. 

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

7 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Well, there's also his naval program that built up the Athenian navy, a crucial element of Athenian (and Greek) history. We need a specific Naval hero for them and that's where Naval Architect comes from. Athenians have the Mines of Laureion bonus and Long Walls tech. 

I suppose I should have clarified more.  The Oracle of Delphi supposedly stated that a wall of wood would save Athens, which Themistocles interpreted as a proper navy.  Granted, Wooden Walls could be misleading, but it definitely is more thematic.  Honestly the choice is a matter of taste.

[Oxenstierna]

Hi Justus...

at first...I love this mod. You asked in the beginning of this thread for some ideas. I don't know if you noted the german side

http://www.kriegsreisende.de/antike/leibgarde.htm

there you can find innovations for lifeguards and the thinking about in that time. I didn't know, that Cleopatra has had a lifeguard of gallic and the roman imperors prefer germanic (mostly batavians) soldiers. Maybe it's nothing new for you... however, do it your way, I will play the game... best regards...

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

 

I will add Darius III as a 4th hero. Any ideas for him?

 

[Nescio]

Out of curiosity, why not Cambyses II or Artaxerxes I?

And why are Cyrus and Darius called “the Great” but Xerxes “King of Persia”? Also, Cyrus ought to be Cyrus II, to distinguish him from his grandfather.

Anyway, it's your mod, do whatever you like.

[nifa]

Looks to me like the only thing he is famous for is losing to Alexander the Great, so maybe +20 speed when retreating?

[Thorfinn the Shallow Minded]

Darius the III seems a bit questionable to me as a hero.  He was the Persian equivalent of Sir Robin.  I would second Nescio's recommendation of Cambyses II.  His conquests were no joke considering his short reign.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

6 hours ago, Nescio said:

And why are Cyrus and Darius called “the Great” but Xerxes “King of Persia”? Also, Cyrus ought to be Cyrus II, to distinguish him from his grandfather.

Valid.  

 

Quote

Out of curiosity, why not Cambyses II or Artaxerxes I?

Indeed, I think I will choose one of these fine gentlesirs instead of Darius III the Cowardly. 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

 

Maybe 1 more Briton hero? Any ideas? Think outside the box.

Edited February 21, 2021 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I'm thinking of adding Memnon of Rhodes as another Persian hero. So:

• Cyrus II
• Cambyses II
• Darius I
• Xerxes I
• Memnon of Rhodes

 

I've already established such a precedent of a mercenary general with Xanthippus of Sparta for the Carthaginians. 

Edited February 21, 2021 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Any ideas for the Epirote heroes?

Edited March 10, 2021 by wowgetoffyourcellphone