Persian Farsi sound

[Lion.Kanzen]

4 hours ago, Alexandermb said:

Should we move this to completed task with the committed tag?

after feedback and testing. and all planned phrases are done?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Would it be possible to add some more gravitas to the male sounds? I realize these may be recorded by a young man, so it might be difficult to get a more mature sound for the voices, but I think that would help. I think the Persian voices could be a little louder compared to the Greek ones, but that can be controlled from the XML files very easily. It's great to hear more languages in the game!

[tgodtaylor]

Can somebody explain me why the Greek texts and voices making no sense?

What should esti mean. I dont think hello. This word doesn't exist or never existed in this language.

Like Βησομαι? This means "im coughing"... And not "im going"

 

#Edit:// Very Old Language... This style is heavy old. But seems compared to the civs okay for it

Edited January 28, 2020 by tgodtaylor

[Stan`]

20 minutes ago, tgodtaylor said:

Can somebody explain me why the Greek texts and voices making no sense?

What should esti mean. I dont think hello. This word doesn't exist or never existed in this language.

Like Βησομαι? This means "im coughing"... And not "im going"

https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Audio_Voice_List

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, tgodtaylor said:

Can somebody explain me why the Greek texts and voices making no sense?

What should esti mean. I dont think hello. This word doesn't exist or never existed in this language.

Like Βησομαι? This means "im coughing"... And not "im going"

 

#Edit:// Very Old Language... This style is heavy old. But seems compared to the civs okay for it

@Nescio can help you.

[Stan`]

@Anaxandridas ho Skandiates will soon have voices for us.

[Nescio]

3 hours ago, tgodtaylor said:

Can somebody explain me why the Greek texts and voices making no sense?

What should esti mean. I dont think hello. This word doesn't exist or never existed in this language.

Like Βησομαι? This means "im coughing"... And not "im going"

 

#Edit:// Very Old Language... This style is heavy old. But seems compared to the civs okay for it

ἐστί means ‘is’: first person singular indicativus praesens active of εἰμί ‘to be’;
ἥσομαι means ‘I will go’: first person singular indicativus futurum medium of ἵημι ‘to let go’;
that beta shouldn't be there; you're right βήσσω/βήττω means ‘to cough’.

[tgodtaylor]

The greek is very old. I was noτ in the high-school in greece to know from which year it is and so on.

 

But I didn't recognize any word. It makes sense to be a old latein, that I didn't learned yet

Confusing if you know only the newest "style"

"I will go" stand today for "Πηγαίνω"

The "esti" stands today for "Ειμαι" like "I am"

Or Etsi έτσι for "to be"

Edited January 29, 2020 by tgodtaylor

[Lion.Kanzen]

We are talking about Koine Greek, right?

[Nescio]

0 A.D. uses (or at least is supposed to) Classical Attic of the 4th C BC, the language of Lysias, Plato, Xenophon, et al. Koine is largely based on this, though a number of sound shifts occurred in Hellenistic times, which is also why Modern Greek sounds quite differently. Basically Classical Greek is to Modern Greek what Latin is to Italian.

[Anaxandridas ho Skandiates]

. 

Edited April 8, 2021 by Anaxandridas ho Skandiates

[sauerkrautpie]

@Stan`

I have interest on ancient languages, so i checked the address given above. ı want to share some ideas:

1. For Brittons, there is a specific class for Brittonic languages under the Celtic Languages (which differencing it from Irish&Scottish which is Goidelic) So the Welsh, Cornish and Bretton language is the best to use as its written already. But i don't know which one is more pure, they both influenced by another classes. 

2. For Gauls, like i said above there is specific class for Gaulish languages too. I think most easy to find Gaulish language is Galatian language, existed in Asia Minor until the 12.century, even though they protected the celtic culture, the language is way too influenced on Greek. The easier non-accurate alternative is Old German, but it makes no sense since it has same resource possibility with Galatian. This is a example text i find it in a website after a google search. Gaulish already used in the in-game text i think.

 

And for Iberians, i don't think Basque language is the best since its the isolated language and there is no proven link between Indo-European languages. Is it the one in the in-game texts of Iberians? Also, for Carthage Hebrew is a fine choice, but if possible i think Punic (the original language) can be found. Of course, these ideas looks hard and maybe too professional. I'd be glad if i can provide any help

[Lion.Kanzen]

31 minutes ago, sauerkrautpie said:

And for Iberians, i don't think Basque language is the best since its the isolated language and there is no proven link between Indo-European languages. Is it the one in the in-game texts of Iberians? Also, for Carthage Hebrew is a fine choice, but if possible i think Punic (the original language) can be found. Of course, these ideas looks hard and maybe too professional. I'd be glad if i can provide any help

We know that.

[Stan`]

8 hours ago, sauerkrautpie said:

@Stan`

I have interest on ancient languages, so i checked the address given above. ı want to share some ideas:

1. For Brittons, there is a specific class for Brittonic languages under the Celtic Languages (which differencing it from Irish&Scottish which is Goidelic) So the Welsh, Cornish and Bretton language is the best to use as its written already. But i don't know which one is more pure, they both influenced by another classes. 

2. For Gauls, like i said above there is specific class for Gaulish languages too. I think most easy to find Gaulish language is Galatian language, existed in Asia Minor until the 12.century, even though they protected the celtic culture, the language is way too influenced on Greek. The easier non-accurate alternative is Old German, but it makes no sense since it has same resource possibility with Galatian. This is a example text i find it in a website after a google search. Gaulish already used in the in-game text i think.

 

And for Iberians, i don't think Basque language is the best since its the isolated language and there is no proven link between Indo-European languages. Is it the one in the in-game texts of Iberians? Also, for Carthage Hebrew is a fine choice, but if possible i think Punic (the original language) can be found. Of course, these ideas looks hard and maybe too professional. I'd be glad if i can provide any help

For gauls ans britons it can be discussed with @Genava55

For iberians yes basque is not an ideal choice but there is no trace (that I know of) of the iberian language at all so I guess it's a compromise. (Yes text is in basque)

What kind of help can you provide ?

[sauerkrautpie]

51 minutes ago, Stan` said:

What kind of help can you provide ?

Nothing much than that i guess. But i'll try to find more resources for the things i suggested. 

51 minutes ago, Stan` said:

For iberians yes basque is not an ideal choice but there is no trace (that I know of) of the iberian language at all so I guess it's a compromise. (Yes text is in basque)

There is few Celtic languages has been spoken (Celtiberian), but i didn't gave the name because i think its impossible to find them. 

Edited April 21, 2020 by sauerkrautpie

[Stan`]

4 minutes ago, sauerkrautpie said:

There is few Celtic languages has been spoken (Celtiberian), but i didn't gave the name because i think its impossible to find them. 

Yeah hence why the basque one was chosen

4 minutes ago, sauerkrautpie said:

Nothing much than that i guess. But i'll try to find more resources for the things i suggested. 

Thanks

[sauerkrautpie]

@Stan` Is there a another specific topic for Gaul sounds or the language part in general? So that i'll send things here. 

[Stan`]

Specific for gauls no so you can create one if you'd like

References are 

 

https://trac.wildfiregames.com/wiki/Audio_Voice_List

[sauerkrautpie]

25 minutes ago, Stan` said:

Specific for gauls no so you can create one if you'd like

If @Genava55 is responsible from both of them, i can directly deliver the resources i find to him. I just found few here and here. There is also books like Dictionnaire de la langue gaulois , but it is removed from the web, and to read them French and a little Greek knowledge is needed. I realized French resources are more than the English ones, so this is the reason we can't find anything (maybe). There is few "Gaulish" words can be used at game, i pulled from the first resource. (For curious, these are from page 48) 

ambactus - vassal, dependent on the lord. 

attegia - hut, cottage (there is a note that tegia means house,roof)

brogae - field

carrus - two-wheeled wagon (for traders maybe)

carpentum - two-wheeled, covered wagon. (this might be the chariot) 

drungus - troop of enemies (this can be use as a sound line) 

drogn - troop 

gaesum - spear, javelin. 

nausum - ship 

lancea - also spear. [ dó-leicim - “I throw” ]

I realized, (maybe) this language they spoken is different than Welsh, but it is highly possible to find similarity between them, even with Irish many times. If the in game texts are Welsh, these words above are similar. I am not really a professional, so i can't be sure what is Gaulish (the resource is really complicated) And for the other resources, someone French should needed for better information.

 

[Genava55]

10 minutes ago, sauerkrautpie said:

There is also books like Dictionnaire de la langue gaulois , but it is removed from the web, and to read them French and a little Greek knowledge is needed. I realized French resources are more than the English ones, so this is the reason we can't find anything (maybe). There is few "Gaulish" words can be used at game, i pulled from the first resource.

I use this dictionary from Delamarre, French is my mother tongue.

12 minutes ago, sauerkrautpie said:

ambactus - vassal, dependent on the lord. 

12 minutes ago, sauerkrautpie said:

brogae - field

13 minutes ago, sauerkrautpie said:

gaesum - spear, javelin. 

nausum - ship 

lancea - also spear. [ dó-leicim - “I throw” ]

13 minutes ago, sauerkrautpie said:

carrus - two-wheeled wagon (for traders maybe)

carpentum - two-wheeled, covered wagon. (this might be the chariot) 

drungus - troop of enemies (this can be use as a sound line) 

Those are the latinized version. And brogae is actually what you can see in Allobroges, I don't think it means "field" but "land", "country" or even "territory".

2 hours ago, Stan` said:

I think most easy to find Gaulish language is Galatian language, existed in Asia Minor until the 12.century, even though they protected the celtic culture, the language is way too influenced on Greek. The easier non-accurate alternative is Old German, but it makes no sense since it has same resource possibility with Galatian. This is a example text i find it in a website after a google search. Gaulish already used in the in-game text i think.

The Gallic dictionaries generally analyzes Galatian, Lepotian and Gallic as a whole. Sometimes including Brittonic languages.

I will answer further later.

[Genava55]

13 hours ago, sauerkrautpie said:

1. For Brittons, there is a specific class for Brittonic languages under the Celtic Languages (which differencing it from Irish&Scottish which is Goidelic) So the Welsh, Cornish and Bretton language is the best to use as its written already. But i don't know which one is more pure, they both influenced by another classes. 

At this time the Brittonic/Brythonic languages are very little different to the Continental Celtic or Gaulish. It is mostly a matter of stress accent.

Remember that Old Irish, Old Welsh and Old Breton are Medieval languages. The language spoke by the Britons is labeled as Common Brittonic:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Common_Brittonic

As noted by Tacitus:

Quote

Those who are nearest to the Gauls are also like them, either from the permanent influence of original descent, or, because in countries which run out so far to meet each other, climate has produced similar physical qualities. But a general survey inclines me to believe that the Gauls established themselves in an island so near to them. Their religious belief may be traced in the strongly-marked British superstition. The language differs but little; there is the same boldness in challenging danger, and, when it is near, the same timidity in shrinking from it. The Britons, however, exhibit more spirit, as being a people whom a long peace has not yet enervated. Indeed we have understood that even the Gauls were once renowned in war; but, after a while, sloth following on ease crept over them, and they lost their courage along with their freedom. This too has happened to the long-conquered tribes of Britain; the rest are still what the Gauls once were.

So personally I see no issue to use Gaulish for both factions. From the toponyms and the ethnonyms, I see little difference as well with Gaulish.

14 hours ago, sauerkrautpie said:

And for Iberians, i don't think Basque language is the best since its the isolated language and there is no proven link between Indo-European languages. Is it the one in the in-game texts of Iberians?

Iberian language is probably non-indo-european as well. Sadly Iberian is not understandable, we do not know enough the vocabulary and the structure of the language. Furthermore we have no sister language to do a comparison. There is a theory that Basque has some links with the Iberian language, so it is the best we can use at the moment:

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vascoiberismo

[sauerkrautpie]

@Genava55 Okay, i think you have a point. They separate from the same arm, but there is almost 600 years of partition (until the BC400) I don't know which geography of Gaul is being imaged for the game, but if its more Southern France, there is a huge distance (for that times) And it is possible to these languages differ at few points.

Of course i agree with you. The both languages from the same arm: ethnonyms, toponyms even an incredible amount of words would be same. I saw two videos yesterday, but i am not sure how professional is them. I am sharing for detail my idea. (There is also other extinct languages being spoken in this channel like old egyptian, could be useful) 

What i see&hear from this videos : Yes, there are similar words and things. But isn't there a difference still? I think Gaulish is a bit influenced by the neighbor languages like Latin, and Brittonic seems like more Celtic. Maybe it is because the Celtic image in my mind, i don't know. But i see a little difference. Also, Common Brittonic looks like Welsh a bit. (I totally understood why Welsh cannot be used, i just wanted to point it ) They might be the tables & texts of a different timelines. 

But if its an easier way, and if its certain they don't have a big difference in common language, it is okay to use same voices. But maybe in-game texts can be revised. That is my own idea of course. I am not professional, i just like researching it. 

 

 

Edited April 21, 2020 by sauerkrautpie

[Genava55]

1 hour ago, sauerkrautpie said:

Nobody knows how and when the Celtic languages splited. This is a very strong debate in linguistic notably between the models of Karl Horst Schmidt and Kim McCone.

1 hour ago, sauerkrautpie said:

But isn't there a difference still?

Yes! The difference is that the first video is 100% based on non-existent material while the second is based on existent material, real written record in Gaulish.

The Common Brittonic video is based on linguistic reconstruction from an amateur. Those texts do not exist in the historical records. It depends on the hypothesis and the model of the person carrying out the reconstruction.

1 hour ago, sauerkrautpie said:

I think Gaulish is a bit influenced by the neighbor languages like Latin, and Brittonic seems like more Celtic. Maybe it is because the Celtic image in my mind, i don't know.

It is in your mind. You are comparing Gaulish written during the Gallo-Roman period with a non-existent reconstruction of Brittonic.

1 hour ago, sauerkrautpie said:

But if its an easier way, and if its certain they don't have a big difference in common language, it is okay to use same voices. But maybe in-game texts can be revised. That is my own idea of course. I am not professional, i just like researching it. 

I am not a linguist, so I rely on the opinion of expert. In the case of Delamarre, he clearly states on the first page of his dictionary that he considers the Celtic language spoken in Southern Britain during the Late Iron Age (100 BC - AD 100) as only a variant of the language spoken in the continent.