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Anaxandridas ho Skandiates

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  1. To present the evidence obtained by inquiry fairly in good order in front of discussion participants? The model of behaviour I should call it - and in addition, I do not ad hominem attack in my posts, but challenge established facts and conceptions. Drawing fire and brimstone, but there we are, my address is not in here so I can still open packages that arrive without getting out the bomb detector
  2. Expect one single reply with all of it, within a week or two. I want to finish the Ptolemaic library now. I was not passionate about this at all when I sounded the alarm and raised doubts, but after this whole charade I am now determined to firstly find out 100% whether I was right or wrong in my criticism and on what points specifically, and secondly to parade the evidence fairly in front of you. And not just such evidence as supports my own hypothesis, dear friends. If I am wrong then you have had even further substantiation, which can only be a good thing for you too.
  3. I have not even started to reply. Will you hear counter-arguments or have you already decided?
  4. @LordGood You are entirely right, informing opinions upon the grounds of 'feelings' will not do. But a 'feeling' something is seriously off is certainly enough to start a discussion, and now the arguments of Sundiata are posted, and it is time for me to reply to them. In a calm and orderly fashion. I continue to accuse several of you fellows in here of rooting against the doubts raised in my original post because of feelings. Your feelings - which emanate from all your replies, 'how dare he question something we believe in'? 'how condescending of him, to refuse to believe the truthful references we have posted'. The logic of the posted arguments serve the conclusion they are supposed to substantiate, in reverse-order. That is your academic standard for which you proclaim ΚΥΔΟΣ? Well as always I will return with a scholarly reply, explaining step by step why it is not wise to employ that method of argumentation. This thread is little more than a day old, and I maintain that it is right and meet that I should express my criticism in here when I feel there is something which seems sub-par or too-good-to-be-true. I think that is one of the main purposes of this forum. But in order for reasonable discussion to inform a process of shaping the game, it is required that we should be willing to consider that the counter-argument of someone we find 'condescending' could in fact be true. PS. There was also some suggestion here earlier that I 'also smeared the game' on the facebook page. That is the wrong order of events, I made a comment there when I saw the artwork in my news-feed, and then afterwards opened this thread in order to hear the comments and see any counter-arguments.
  5. Just working full-time on the 3D Ptolemaic library interiors. One of the glorious renders complete with golden busts of Ptolemaios I and II will make for a fantastic background once the scenes are finished. Unfortunately the interiors cannot really be used in the game, but with the improved models I will be able to make realistic Ptolemaic palace-scapes just using the scenario editor, once I've found out how to modify those colonnade-3d-models, to make proper courtyards. I just use 3ds max and it seems everyone else is using blender. I can only make the renders historically accurate and good with vray etc., how to make models suitable for the game with textures and optimized poly count will take some time to learn perhaps.
  6. If you give me the exact pixelsize for the ingame background I could move the balcony left in photoshop and crop it left a little bit with the result of a slightly less exaggerated impression. But I just have real respect for the artist who made the render and have no problem with it as an artwork. First of all though, you see what I mean when I say that the first post in this thread has a picture with the balcony far out the left, and the one I referenced just before, that was seen as "too fat", had the balcony cover that central part of the picture? @wowgetoffyourcellphone I expect strong arguments, a huge captain-picard-what-an-idiot-this-guy-is-facepalm-meme falls slightly short of that.
  7. Look, the city in that render is so awesome, that if a Roman emperor had walked out on that balcony he would have said "wow, I want the view of Rome from my palace to look like this - can you send up some of your expert Kushite engineers and architects up to us, please, so ours can learn from them." Hands up if you think that is realistic. I rest my case.
  8. But the whole central megatemple and massive central axis boulevard are missing (covered by the renaissance balcony) compared to the above one right?
  9. The people on the street there are still extremely small, and if they were a bit larger and the balcony were fixed, that could be a really nice background (was it already in? I seem to have seen it before, and do not feel the alarm bells go off as violently with it, as with the one above. Except for the balustrade.) This crop just seems a lot more reasonable. ( = not as exaggerated in the citysize it implies)
  10. The problem is not the ingame architecture of the kushites, it is a game and can look awesome. It is this fantastic artwork posted above, which looks so great. And its problem: It looks great because the structures are extremely large - see the humans -, the palatial structure between the temples looks like it is stone, but it should be mudbrick, and even then it should be the tallest structure in the whole cityscape. Instead the temples tower above the tiny people in many times the size, and the king stands on the majestic renaissance 16th century balcony showing "look this is the city we built." Except it was not. The artistic quality is extremely high. As a fantasy-scape it is 100% perfect. But players will say "those Kushites really built awesome cities on par with Rome and Athens in their glory days, and temples as large as the Hagia Sophia. Wow." But they just didn't right? So maybe, we should point out that this is a great work of artistic imagination.
  11. But even on other subjects, I do assume that I have a right to express thoughts freely. Also when they are critical. And in this case I stand by my original point: Some here really really want the Kushite world to have looked like that. It find it impossible to believe that it did. I see the elements in the references, but I do not see how in the wildest dreams of a historian that city could be even remotely extrapolated from the posted evidence. I see a tendency here of taking the large Egyptian temples constructed by Thutmose III and Rameses II and other pharaos, as evidence for Kushite mega-architecture and mega-cities, because Kushite rulers renovated or added features or courtyards to existing structures. This is certainly problematic in several ways, when speaking of a 'Kushite' architecture. It would be worth a discussion, but of course it is futile to discuss it if anyone questioning the status quo is a heretic who is insulted and ridiculed. I honestly think it looks like there has been an effort to deliberately exaggerate the architecture of the Kushites. And if the community decides that "meh, I will close my eyes to that pesky criticism, let's go with fantasy, looks way cooler" then that is what it is. Cherry-picked evidence does not make for evidence of a city-scape. In the same way that the mouseion at Alexandria does not allow one to claim that all Greek cities were full of men like Eratosthenes, Aristarchos and Archimedes, creating scientific revolutions. I open a thread to discuss the matter, instead get instantly attacked. We have full reconstructions by historians of Greek and Roman and Hellenistic cities, we attempt to make those cities resemble that to some degree. Here I see ruins of temples in Egyptian style, and a few unique features such as the pyramids and the unique mud-architecture. Then I see byzantine elements in later architecture of the region, which could date within the period of the game. Aithiopia is used here in its classical sense. Sundiata, you asked whether I was "talking about those Nubian Vaults? You might want to look up what a Nubian vault is". Indeed everything makes sense when the building is not built of stone. A clay-vault is the most reasonable of things. But since that structure has the same colour as the stone-structures, how is one to know that it is mud, clay and mudbrick: It is contributing to the feeling of inauthenticity. Two or even three storeys of mudbrick, accessed with latters, we can see evidence of such architecture still in use today. But essentially the humans in that cityscape posted are extremely small, giving the impression of a megacity. It looks fantastic - but it is fantasy.
  12. It was from the beginning never a concern of mine to engage in the areas in which I have no expertise. My efforts are in the improvement of the accuracy and quality of the Greek-speaking factions, including with 3d modeling work which is progressing step by step. I research each step and only publish results once they are complete. In-between I participate in debate on this forum, and the posted references and comments have indeed resulted in some very fine improvements carried out by members of the community. The in-depth knowledge of hellenistic architecture is necessary in order to point out where improvements are due, and it is I would claim, valuable in its own right.
  13. A stone structure with such a cylindrical dome, approaching the size in the city-scape above, is found in Aithiopia: ... but it dates to ~1760 A.D.
  14. It is also not necessary to add anything new, Sundiata already posted a wealth of material, including a much more reasonable reconstruction of a kushite cityscape, which features as would be expected, something which looks a lot more realistic: I think it is perfectly reasonable to question whether reconstructions of cities based upon actual excavations of cities, should not be our guide, rather than imagining great metropoleis and then decorating and constructing its parts and scaling them up to have such metropoleis emerge they way we think it would have been cool if they had looked.
  15. I know the references of @Sundiata and never attacked him, he is doing his best to give references and that is valuable for our work. I am seeing something that I clearly feel immediately to be not reflecting the reality of Kushite architecture, to the extent where it appears to be near-complete fiction. This I criticize, and will criticize in detail once I am done being insulted for raising an honest point. My main issue: The mud-architecture looks like stone architecture, and the size appears to be vastly exaggerated, giving the appearance of an unreasonably large cityscape. If cities of the size as the one depicted in the render did exist, I would ask: Do we have any evidence to support that, or are we making it up. I think we are making it up, because it looks cool. That is misleading the player, to make him or her think something like that existed, because we stitched together elements from archaeology that were real, into megacity compound renders that were fantasy.
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