Gold: Resource

[Alexandermb]

@wowgetoffyourcellphone Have you planned on adding gold as other resource and add unique gold mines, theres mercenary camp in your gameplay features but what about gold mines and mini factions near them for 3 purposes: slavery market, trading post, or enemies to capture the gold mine (maybe slaves as a loot resources from destroying houses).

i apologize if I'm not very explicit I'm using phone browser.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

There are 4 things I would like to add/change about some of the resources. You can find them in "Wow's Gameplay Proposal" thread, but I'll detail them a bit here:

 

1. For Metal, I would like to have a "Mine Shaft" object that has a slot next to the mine entrance. Players would "claim" the mine shaft by building a Storehouse upon this slot. Then you can task workers to the mine shaft and they'd enter the shaft and gather the metal. Like Starcraft's Vespene Gas mines the workers would emerge from the mine after a certain amount of time and deposit the metal resource at the slotted Storehouse. To claim such a Metal Mine from an enemy, simply destroy the enemy's Storehouse and building your own. The enemy workers would retreat to their player's nearest dropsite and idle, else face annihilation from you.

2. Stone Quarries would look like large open pit mines on the side of a mountain. Similar to a Mine Shaft, Stone Quarries would have a slot on which you claim the quarry by building a storehouse upon it. Your workers then start mining away in the quarry and drop off the resource at the storehouse.

3. Coin. This is the trading, bartering, and tributing resource. You can also find it in treasures and via loot [especially enemy economic units or economic buildings]. Buying and selling resources occurs in Coin, and Coin is the resource you gather via trading. You use Coin to hire mercenaries and do other things, like buy better weapons and pay your guard units [champions].

4. Single trees are deleted by construction, while large Groves are not. With groves, you could allow barbarian or guerilla units to "garrison" within them for ambush purposes. A grove where 50% of its wood is harvested would kick out any garrisoned units.

Edited March 26, 2018 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[Alexandermb]

16 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

1. For Metal, I would like to have a "Mine Shaft" object that has a slot next to the mine entrance. Players would "claim" the mine shaft by building a Storehouse upon this slot. Then you can task workers to the mine shaft and they'd enter the shaft and gather the metal. Like Starcraft's Vespene Gas mines

2. Stone Quarries would look like large open pit mines on the side of a mountain. Similar to a Mine Shaft, Stone Quarries would have a slot on which you claim the quarry by building a storehouse upon it. Your workers then start mining away in the quarry and drop off the resource at the storehouse.

3. Coin. This is the trading, bartering, and tributing resource. You can also find it in treasures and via loot [especially enemy economic units or economic buildings]. Buying and selling resources occurs in Coin, and Coin is the resource you gather via trading. You use Coin to hire mercenaries and do other things, like buy better weapons and pay your guard units [champions].

I can imagine those gameplay features thats something i realy loved from The Settlers: Heritage of kings and never saw those features again, all those changes remind me some games i played before "Dawn of War, Warcraft/Starcraft, The Settlers" all with unique gameplays with Pros and Cons, i have high hopes on Delenda Est if all those ideas reach their potential because i love all those games but none of them have the easy customization 0 AD have and you can get bored very fast if you end the campaing.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Right, I think taking cues from other games is appropriate if those features make sense together in the overall gameplay context. I think they would. In fact, to integrate these ideas better into the game, perhaps you don't build a storehouse on a slot, but rather you "capture" the storehouse that's already there, and now the Mine Shaft or Stone Quarry is yours.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Some off topic bit is possibly make artistically several types of mines?

More attractives...

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I do think the rocks and mine stones in the game could look a lot better, yeah.

[Lion.Kanzen]

2 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

I do think the rocks and mine stones in the game could look a lot better, yeah.

Yes the stones the gold and iron... we even have cooper or silver mines?

[Alexandermb]

This are some mines on other games that i remember when i think on your ideas of mines:

Sulphur mineral The Settlers Heritage of kings if IRC a structure is builded over or around it for extract it.



Iron mine from Stronghold 2 another special building for extraction



Imperium Civitas Marble mine

R

Thats what i have in mind when i read the word "Mine" a building for extraction, or just a cave or the mineral spread around a wall

[Alexandermb]

Offtopic: in the settlers there is winter and spring, winter the water become ice and you can walk over, but if you leave someone in the ice and spring comes the unit drowns.

[Lion.Kanzen]

Some mind of this at 3th phase in some maps...

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

6 minutes ago, Alexandermb said:

This is similar to what I had in mind for the Mine Shafts, yeah.

1 minute ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

This is cool too. Though, they did not have minecarts back then I'd imagine.

[Lion.Kanzen]

3 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

This is similar to what I had in mind for the Mine Shafts, yeah.

This is cool too. Though, they did not have minecarts back then I'd imagine.

Question... in this timeframe existe a such thing as minecarts?

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

I think almost everything except the track and minecarts would be fine.

[Stan`]

5 hours ago, Alexandermb said:

Offtopic: in the settlers there is winter and spring, winter the water become ice and you can walk over, but if you leave someone in the ice and spring comes the unit drowns.

I like this game so much. Especially the Idle and attack anims the snow and bridges.

They do have a bataillon system. It's on steam for cheap if anyone wanna try

[Sundiata]

15 hours ago, Alexandermb said:

Have you planned on adding gold as other resource and add unique gold mines, theres mercenary camp in your gameplay features but what about gold mines and mini factions near them for 3 purposes: slavery market, trading post, or enemies to capture the gold mine (maybe slaves as a loot resources from destroying houses).

 

12 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

3. Coin. This is the trading, bartering, and tributing resource. You can also find it in treasures and via loot [especially enemy economic units or economic buildings]. Buying and selling resources occurs in Coin, and Coin is the resource you gather via trading. You use Coin to hire mercenaries and do other things, like buy better weapons and pay your guard units [champions].

 

So why not differentiate mines into: stone, base metal (iron, copper), and precious metal (gold, silver). Then you could mine gold/silver, which would show up as coin among your resources, and can be used and acquired through more ways than one, as described by you, similarly to the way Nescio uses silver? Base metal is used as metal is used now. Stone mines would be large quarries built in to a cliff face. 

There were a lot of different types of mines in the ancient world, including placer mining (alluvial), pit mines and shaft mines, so there's a lot of possibilities here:

Spoiler

 

Some more mine-ideas (imagine without tracks and mine carts of course)

 

 

Mining in Pharaoh

 

Mining in The Settlers III

 

 

 

Inside Roman mines

 

Celtic salt mining

 

Cleopatra's emerald mines

 

Ancient stone quarry in Greece

 

Ancient Egyptian stone quarry

 

 

 

 

On another note, I've always been in love with the idea of finally adding "brick" as a standard resource for ancient RTS games, produced by a brick maker (a structure close to water, access to clay). The majority of structures in the ancient world and by most civs in the game were largely built from mud-brick or fired brick. This way building-resources can be balanced better, be made more sensible: basic structures used mostly brick and wood. monumental or defensive structures use mostly stone and wood (and maybe some brick as well). Brick building = weak. Stone buildings = strong. 

 

Edited March 27, 2018 by Sundiata

[Servo]

This would be very nice at least if can be done on mods. Alphine Mountain should be a nice map to test and implement these things as mineral resources and stones are realistically far from the CC aside from the fact that it is mountainous. I think there was another map from DE for 4 player scenario with few trees and metals and stones also far from CC. 

If minerals are under mountains or river quarries should it be invisible until you hover the mouse towards the area and it (minerals) show up? 

SP on mods could be much more fun again with these but hope the AI will respond to the changes. G/L. 

[Nescio]

20 hours ago, Alexandermb said:

@wowgetoffyourcellphone Have you planned on adding gold as other resource and add unique gold mines, theres mercenary camp in your gameplay features but what about gold mines and mini factions near them for 3 purposes: slavery market, trading post, or enemies to capture the gold mine (maybe slaves as a loot resources from destroying houses).

Actually I'm not convinced introducing yet another type of mine would be a good idea. Nor do I like the groves (basically wood mines) suggestion. I think different resources ought to be acquired in different ways. Also, non-gatherable cash/coins/currency/electron/gold/silver/whatever, obtainable via barter, trade, looting, taxation (trickle), already works. So gold mines, no thanks.

I've contemplated removing metal mines, for reasons of gameplay and realism. The former because if mines are exhausted, (AI) players are no longer really effective; also, it forces every map to include at least a certain number of mines per player. The latter because in reality not all materials are available in every area.

Spoiler

E.g. in the Iron Age bronze continued to be widely used; high-grade bronze (about 10:1 copper:tin) for weapons, low-grade bronze (about 20:1 copper:tin) for helmets, breastplates, sculptures, mirrors, coins, etc. Iron ore is present almost everywhere in the world. Copper was relatively easy to obtain via trade; Cyprus was a major source of copper (in fact the word copper/cuprum/κυπρος is derived from Cyprus/Κυπρος). Tin, on the other hand, was not: the nearest mines to Greece were located in what is now Spain, Great-Britain, and the German-Czech border area, thus requiring long distance trade, with intermediaries (e.g. Carthage, Massilia, Etruscans, etc.) thus making it more expensive. Likewise, gold was found only in certain areas; having tin/copper/silver/gold mines on every map would be unrealistic.

Furthermore, there is a fundamental difference between (stone) quarries on the one hand, and on the other (metal, ore, salt, other minerals, coal, gem, diamond) mines. Unfortunately this is not (yet) reflected in the game, both are just treated as “mines”.

Quarrying was typically done by the artisans and their servants who would work the stone; materials were excavated from the surface, and although it was undoubtedly hard work, it was not necessarily dangerous.

Mining typically means extracting minerals etc. from below the surface. Unlike in quarries, the desired resource is just a minor fraction. Also, it requires shafts, tunnels, etc., which have a risk of collapsing.
Because of the high mortality rate only convicted criminals, runaway slaves, unlucky prisoners of war, and very desperate volunteers worked in the Athenian mines; if they survived for two or three years, they were freed and received a decent lump sum payment to enable them to start a new life.
In some parts of the Near East children were evidently used; smaller tunnels are less likely to collapse, and children are easier to replace.

4 hours ago, Sundiata said:

On another note, I've always been in love with the idea of finally adding "brick" as a standard resource for ancient RTS games, produced by a brick maker (a structure close to water, access to clay). The majority of structures in the ancient world and by most civs in the game were largely built from mud-brick or fired brick. This way building-resources can be balanced better, be made more sensible: basic structures used mostly brick and wood. monumental or defensive structures use mostly stone and wood (and maybe some brick as well). Brick building = weak. Stone buildings = strong.

Bricks would be nice, as would having iron and bronze instead of "metal", and introducing textiles (wool, flax and linen, cotton, leather, etc.). Unfortunately 0 A.D. is not really designed for having many resources.

Having just one type of resource (money) might even work better.

[elexis]

2 hours ago, Nescio said:

Unfortunately 0 A.D. is not really designed for having many resources.

It shouldn't be too hard to extend that support however. In Anno 1602 you had many resources, only the most important ones were shown in the top panel, the rest in a menu:

 

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Yeah, for DE, food, wood, stone, metal, coin, and glory are plenty.

[Nescio]

16 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Yeah, for DE, food, wood, stone, metal, coin, and glory are plenty.

And population makes seven; now try displaying all of them on half a 1024 pixel screen

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

6 hours ago, Nescio said:

And population makes seven; now try displaying all of them on half a 1024 pixel screen

Good thing I am building DE for myself and my 1600px wide screen.  

[feneur]

Have there even been any 1024px wide screens sold in the last 10-15 years or so? Maybe 15, but I doubt it's been very common any time recently.

[Stan`]

3 hours ago, feneur said:

Have there even been any 1024px wide screens sold in the last 10-15 years or so? Maybe 15, but I doubt it's been very common any time recently.

I believe notebooks had a resolution like 1024x600 or so. 1280x720 would be q nice upgrade 

[feneur]

8 hours ago, stanislas69 said:

I believe notebooks had a resolution like 1024x600 or so. 1280x720 would be q nice upgrade 

Possible, though I doubt they would be able to run the game anyway. I'm not saying we should give up support for smaller screens (and in turn older computers) too easily, but it's certainly beginning to seem like we might be able to move on at least a little without leaving too many behind.

[Stan`]

Yeah we are in 2018 now... The most common resolution I see these days is 1366x768. Most of the 4:3 screens support at least 1280x1024