Suggestions for 0 A.D.

[man_s_our]

for the vision, I think there should be inputs other than range.

1- instead of making the vision being simply a circle with the entity in the center, there should otherwise be more realistic. for example, a man shouldn't be able to see what's behind him. while some animals can. this can be tactically used to distract defenders or even wait for the perfect timing for sneak attack. the less resource consuming approach to this would be to have a factor that if set to 0.0 (which may be the default) the LOS would be just like used to be. while if it set to 1.0 the LOS's circle will pass straight through the entity.

2- having a night-vision ratio. this offcourse would be after adding day-night circle like in WC3. it would need some scripting but till I do it or someone else do, it can be done through auras (a invisible entity would have aura that reduce/augment vision for the entities on the entire map and has xp tickle and gets circular upgrades between day/night templates)

3- having camouflage and camouflage detection ratio. this would only effect the automatic response. if the player was on site he'd still be able to command the unit to attack the undetected unit.

Edited November 11, 2023 by man_s_our

[man_s_our]

On 03/11/2023 at 5:46 PM, LienRag said:

Also, could it be possible to have roads/lanes where movement of units is quicker ? That would allow for counterattacks and a more strategic game (as of now, if you try to counterattack, by the time you're there the enemy has usually reconstructed its defenses).
 

this too can be achieved through auras. every road piece can be a entity that's flat, have no obstruction, have aura that increase speed and for easy build it should be considered a wallstone.

Edited November 11, 2023 by man_s_our

[LienRag]

On 28/06/2022 at 4:34 PM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

in another discussion, it was suggested to increase garrison space to 16 on the largest wall segments. Part of their apparent weakness is that only 8 can sit on a wall, usually against many more units.

I think their existing armor bonus is enough.

I don't know the numbers, but they clearly die much, much quicker than they should. So quickly that it's usually useless to garrison them there if you don't intend to sacrifice them, as getting them out of harm's way when wounded is a hassle.

I also never understood the armor formula, so I can't say what would be the right values, but basically they should be heavily protected against anything thrown at them from below.

[LienRag]

1 hour ago, man_s_our said:

what I did is simply making the fields have finite amount of supplies and need water + grain to plant new ones.

Do you mean micromanagement hell like in Age of Empires ?

Or do I misunderstand your explanations ?

[LienRag]

1 hour ago, man_s_our said:

for the vision, I think there should be inputs other than range.

1- instead of making the vision being simply a circle with the entity in the center, there should otherwise be more realistic. for example, a man shouldn't be able to see what's behind him. while some animals can. this can be tactically used to distract defenders or even wait for the perfect timing for sneak attack.

Can you do that without inciting very tedious micromanagement ?

[Grautvornix]

2 hours ago, man_s_our said:

what I did is simply making the fields have finite amount of supplies and need water + grain to plant new ones.

I have future plan to make it more water dependent. like if there is water under it it will have positive change. otherwise it will die.

fertility is similar to my idea of global and local auras related to climate. but I intended it to be about making units that are good in desert have penalties when being in frozen maps and so on.

I think @wowgetoffyourcellphone would do great in handling this part.

Adding water to create better crops results is one of the central ideas dicussed also in the thread below. Here we would introduce wells as additional buildings to support watering your crops thus getting a yield even in the desert. Would be interested to get your opinion on the discussions there!

 

[man_s_our]

12 hours ago, LienRag said:

Can you do that without inciting very tedious micromanagement ?

it doesn't add micros. but adds more tactical choices.

[man_s_our]

12 hours ago, LienRag said:

Do you mean micromanagement hell like in Age of Empires ?

Or do I misunderstand your explanations ?

if implemented without the planned additions, then it would increase only few micros because supplies quantity is still big.

otherwise, the planned additions would contain some resources doesn't get destroyed when depleted (is already patched. take a look at ResourceSupply.js patch) and you can wait it to grow again, the support unit "farmer" that can "build" the trees and fields and can automatically water them and have good vegan food harvest rate.

[hamdich]

I suggest the following Changes analyse 
                   * Acceleration should be nerfed ,
                       . units have become much slower at formation or escaping .
                       . A rush can easily fail         
                       . When big numbers units sometimes freeze for 1 seconds just because of a change of                                         direction ( left to right ) due to rotation + acceleration .          
                 
                   * New Techonlogies :
                        Add a phase 2 tech that gives archer cavs/camels ability to shoot while walking but also gives                          slower mobility less DPM for expample 1.5s , less range 45m and worse accuracy . This will                              make archer cav less affective against infantry (towers ) but better against other cav 
                        which they are already too weak against.

                   * Add siege for phase 2 :
                        Smaller siege with less Hp , less DPM and armor, reasonably less expensive than the phase 3                          ones. like rams + catapults
                        the ratios between cost/ damage  damage/armor+ hp  and training time are to be figured out                            in relation with phase 3 siege
                        having good siege at phase 2 really helps some civs and makes the game better ,faster more                          enjoable and faster -> less laggy for TGs
                        for example instead of waiting for phase 3 one will be able to get rid of a ennemy tower in                                own or border territory or even attack much earlier . it opens new world of startegies because                          if doesn't work then most likely the attcker just slowing him self

                   * Heros buildings:
                    
                        Civilisations with heros whom historically kings born in ruling family or leaders who later                                    became kings should 
                        be trained from civic-centers . 
                        all the rest of civilisations train hero from unique buildings ( generals pallace ) 
                          
                        . From civic centers : kushites , ptolemies , seleucides, persians , macedonians, hans.
                           
                        . From unique buildings : gauls , britons , romans ,mauryans, atheninians ,spartans  ,                                                                                     ,carthaginians ,iberians.
                  
                        Instead of spending long building time and ressources on expensive fortress which half of                                times no need for it but just to have a hero whom potentially will die in battle and can only be                          trained once. Thats why we see Roman or carthage or iberians heros for example so rarely                              despite thier greatness.

[man_s_our]

17 hours ago, hamdich said:

                        Add a phase 2 tech that gives archer cavs/camels ability to shoot while walking

I'm already working on this one (but the archer's firing speed and accuracy is what gets negative effect by movement speed. not the opposite) in other way.

the problem is that this needs huge edits on UnitAI and some other components. so you need patience.

[Freagarach]

17 minutes ago, man_s_our said:

I'm already working on this one (but the archer's firing speed and accuracy is what gets negative effect by movement speed. not the opposite) in other way.

the problem is that this needs huge edits on UnitAI and some other components. so you need patience.

That would be huge. ^^ If you do get it working (whilst not breaking everything ;P ), please make a patch on Phab. Also, feel free to ping me on IRC (#0ad-dev on Quakenet) if you want to discuss something (even ping when I'm not online, I follow the logs quite regularly).

[alre]

On 13/11/2023 at 10:27 AM, man_s_our said:

I'm already working on this one (but the archer's firing speed and accuracy is what gets negative effect by movement speed. not the opposite) in other way.

the problem is that this needs huge edits on UnitAI and some other components. so you need patience.

I can help with UnitAI. could never make working animations though.

[man_s_our]

17 hours ago, alre said:

I can help with UnitAI. could never make working animations though.

if you want to help debugging and fixing the issues clone this repo and use this horse template for tests.

btw. I don't think we need animations because we're going to use infantry as turrets on horses.

 

fauna_horse.xml

Edited November 15, 2023 by man_s_our

[LienRag]

On 12/11/2023 at 8:25 AM, man_s_our said:

it doesn't add micros. but adds more tactical choices.

How so ?

If units don't see their back, it means that the player has to make them constantly turn around so they don't miss anything.

A real recipe for micromanagement disaster  in my book...

[LienRag]

On 12/11/2023 at 11:12 AM, man_s_our said:

if implemented without the planned additions, then it would increase only few micros because supplies quantity is still big.

So, like in Age of Empire ? Where it actually served no gameplay purpose ?

One way that could be interesting strategically is if farms could not be regrown on the same location after they wither (the soil being exhausted).

But that's not easy to balance on so many different maps...

 

[man_s_our]

13 hours ago, LienRag said:

How so ?

If units don't see their back, it means that the player has to make them constantly turn around so they don't miss anything.

A real recipe for micromanagement disaster  in my book...

in case they were idle they'd simply be automatically looking left and right from moment to other. just like normal people do. especially when guarding.

[man_s_our]

13 hours ago, LienRag said:

So, like in Age of Empire ? Where it actually served no gameplay purpose ?

One way that could be interesting strategically is if farms could not be regrown on the same location after they wither (the soil being exhausted).

But that's not easy to balance on so many different maps...

 

whether they regrow or you rebuild them they'll consume water from groundwater or using farmers to water them. I don't know whether I'd add the fertilizers as limited resource or just make it as auras tho.

Edited November 16, 2023 by man_s_our

[man_s_our]

On 27/10/2023 at 8:29 PM, zozio32 said:

I might download that Mod! I was not aware of it.   Are you the person to ask for advice about how to do so?  

the open beta phase has started. tell me if you want to join as early tester.

Edited December 13, 2023 by man_s_our

[zozio32]

4 hours ago, man_s_our said:

the open beta phase has started. tell me if you want to join as early tester.

potentially yes.  I have uninstalled a26, and I have dev a27 running now, so I am also using the version of DE that works with a27.  The "realism mod" can work with dev a27?

Edit: you answered me in the other thread. I will try to give it a go

Edited December 13, 2023 by zozio32

[man_s_our]

2 hours ago, zozio32 said:

potentially yes.  I have uninstalled a26, and I have dev a27 running now, so I am also using the version of DE that works with a27.  The "realism mod" can work with dev a27?

Edit: you answered me in the other thread. I will try to give it a go

the mod is targeting A27. so that it may be playable when A27 is officially released.

[zozio32]

hello, I did try to lunch a match against the A.I. and the mod activated, but without much success.    Where should I put the logs so you can check what went wrong?   I am attaching them here in the mean time

interestinglog.html mainlog.html system_info.txt userreport_hwdetect.txt

 

so, some quick checks. I seems to miss the folders "tree", "rock" and "ore" in "/mods/realismod/simulation/templates/gaia/"

there is a bunch of errors as the "meat" resource is not found, but that come from the initial one on "MeatSupplies.js "   . On this point, won't we need an interface specific to this new component?

 

Edited December 13, 2023 by zozio32
added log and text

[man_s_our]

9 hours ago, zozio32 said:

hello, I did try to lunch a match against the A.I. and the mod activated, but without much success.    Where should I put the logs so you can check what went wrong?   I am attaching them here in the mean time

interestinglog.html 1.31 MB · 0 downloads mainlog.html 1.4 MB · 0 downloads system_info.txt 9.24 kB · 0 downloads userreport_hwdetect.txt 13.93 kB · 0 downloads

 

so, some quick checks. I seems to miss the folders "tree", "rock" and "ore" in "/mods/realismod/simulation/templates/gaia/"

there is a bunch of errors as the "meat" resource is not found, but that come from the initial one on "MeatSupplies.js "   . On this point, won't we need an interface specific to this new component?

 

this thread is the one meant for feedbacks and updates

[Sp00ky]

On 03/11/2023 at 12:05 PM, LienRag said:

 

2 - Defense is unbalanced : Town Centers are extremely good defenses especially in early game, which is a good thing as "zerg rushes" are imho unfun;

 

I disagree with this to some extent. People often exaggerate about rushes in these games. I feel like rushes should have a chance to succeed. In most other games a rush is a risky business. It is usually successful towards low elo player however if the player knows how to defend then the rush leaves the attacker with a huge economic disadvantage. In fact as you climb up the elo rushes become less frequent and people tend to raid instead with small amount of units.

The problem is that 0ad tcs are definitely OP and ruin a big aspect of the game, both rushes are not viable because of the sheer disadvantage of the attacker, nor raids with smaller forces if the player keeps the units close to their TC

One is that they shoot without any garrisoned unit, they have massive range and they deal a ton of damage. In AoE2 for example if you want to kill the enemy explorer you have to carefully micro your vills inside the tc losing some resource gathering time, and even then it is not a guaranteed kill. In 0AD if your explorer stumbles upon an enemy TC is dead 99% of the times with no action required by the defending player. This also hinders scouting which is very important to plan a counter to your enemy strategy (altough 0AD counters or, more accurately, lack of them deserve a whole other discussion)

I think a good starting change would be to change to make the TC do not shoot any arrow if no units are garrisoned inside, and generally nerf their range. 

Another thing that makes raiding unprofitable in 0AD is the cheap costs of units and the speed in which units are produced. In 0AD a village kill is most of the time not a big deal, another one will be spawning soon, and if the player has the tech that lets the houses spawn new villagers this is even less meaningful. This should also be tweaked if TCs are to be nerfed, both villagers and military units should take more time to train and cost more resources. That way an unsuccessful rush can be a fatal mistake because of the amount of resources invested in it.

 

[MarcusAureliu#s]

A small but helpfull improvement could be to display hotkeys in the building menues, like it is done in aoe 2 for example. I am aware that building placement hotkeys are currently done by a mod, autociv which hopefully can be integrated in the game, but this could already be implemented for unit production.

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

4 hours ago, MarcusAureliu#s said:

A small but helpfull improvement could be to display hotkeys in the building menues, like it is done in aoe 2 for example. I am aware that building placement hotkeys are currently done by a mod, autociv which hopefully can be integrated in the game, but this could already be implemented for unit production.

This would make it so much easier to build or adjust muscle memory for using hotkeys. If you forget the hotkey or simply forget to use it you'll see the little "h" on the icon and be reminded of it.