Fanatics Are Broken Beyond Repair — The Real Spam Nightmare After Champ Cavs

[Deicide4u]

8 basic spearmen and 12 javelineers destroyed seven fanatics, with all javelineers and 3 spearmen remaining. It took 5 minutes to setup the demo.

[chrstgtr]

1 hour ago, Deicide4u said:

8 basic spearmen and 12 javelineers destroyed seven fanatics, with all javelineers and 3 spearmen remaining. It took 5 minutes to setup the demo.

To underline, the the CS, which cost 2000 in res, defeated the fana, which cost 1540 in res. The fana also cost more food, the slowest resource to gather, than the CS, so the 1540 vs 2000 res comparison understates how CS were fairly close in price and the below example shows it even more because that example has fana as more expensive. Moreover, the fana player had to build multiple temples, which cost adds extra cost and time, while the CS army was built those 20 units several minutes before the fana player even went p2. 

Consider that the CS player could easily push the fana player before this or get upgrades with those extra res cost and it is hard to imagine how anyone thinks fana are OP unless you let the fana player spam them or try to fight them with cav

Edited 9 hours ago by chrstgtr

[chrstgtr]

1 hour ago, guerringuerrin said:

If the purpose of the units is to counter cav, then why don't just nerf a little their damage against infantry?

I honestly think they're a little weak against inf. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, though, because they should be an anti-cav unit, so they don't need to do well against inf. 

But fana aren't actually that good against cav right now either. The problem is that they're slower than cav so the enemy player can just run away.  I've been most effective using fana when the enemy cav player misjudged how strong fana are against cav and took bad fights and prety ineffective with fana when trying to use them against inf or a cav player that just retreats. I think they need a slight speed buff. 

[Servo]

Isn’t it dumb to compare/equate 7 fanatics vs 8 spearmen and 12 promoted javelins?

[Deicide4u]

7 Fanatics not good enough for you?

How about 10 Fanatics versus the same force? I didn't even micro the spearmen.

Edited 10 hours ago by Deicide4u

[chrstgtr]

26 minutes ago, Servo said:

Isn’t it dumb to compare/equate 7 fanatics vs 8 spearmen and 12 promoted javelins?

The fana player is going to be at a pop/resource deficit whenever they fight because fana are more expensive for a lot of reasons. A more realistic comparison might be where fana are outnumber by a 22:10 since that is the difference in their straight resource costs but, as you can see, they fana lose fights that are easier than that. The CS player also has the option to push earlier when the fana player will their weakest. 
 

it all goes to my original point that fana’s strength is very situational 

if you think t

it should be a 1:1 comparison, that doesn’t make sense. Obviously the unit that requires its own specialized building and costs 2.2x as much should win in a 1:1 fight. 

[Servo]

Dakara illustration is better than yours @Deicide4u. Somehow you can’t make sense because you don’t play multiplayer.

Regardless of any illustration here you can’t compare the devastating effect of fanatics in game on TG. It’s a game changer. From starting at P2 up to the end where you can spam up to 25 fully upgraded (from blacksmith) infinitely, how can you stop it? I’ve seen it. Cavalry being microed as well as infantry they just dropped and when they killed all fanatics another more than 20 sets comes in again and again. 
as I’ve said they might get countered in 1v1 but in team game it’s going to be pain. 

[Deicide4u]

7 minutes ago, Servo said:

Dakara illustration is better than yours @Deicide4u. Somehow you can’t make sense because you don’t play multiplayer.

Yeah, I regularly use mass archers in my games without support. I also conveniently position them so that each Fanatic can reach them just fine. Oh, and I'm not even microing my units, because why would I? After all, I am not playing multiplayer, so I can't grasp such tactics. 

/s just in case, and I won't feed the troll anymore. I rested my case. 

[chrstgtr]

19 minutes ago, Servo said:

Dakara illustration is bette

The key to beating fana is to not get into a bad fight. 

Dakara straight up said he didn’t have enough melee. 

No one is saying that fana are an awful unit. It’s the opposite where reza is saying that fana are always the best unit, which just isn’t true. 

[king reza the great]

3 hours ago, Deicide4u said:

8 basic spearmen and 12 javelineers destroyed seven fanatics, with all javelineers and 3 spearmen remaining. It took 5 minutes to setup the demo.

This is not how u balance units. Are you a dev?

Its simple, fanas run fast, they run. They are not going to attack cs like what u tested. They target women on field for example. Or a small group of men which are mining etc. That totally will destroy enemy eco. Then at a critical moment the fana player send all soldiors and kill his opponent. And both are still in p2.

Other problem is that u cant counter fanas with cavs. And its very hard to micro with cavs vs fanas because they run fast. As chris himself in his first post said, a group of fanas easily can kill lot of cavs! Which show how broken they are.

Moreover why only gaul should have a super op anti cav unit? Because its favorite civ of chris he bonused it? Fanas already required metal in last alphas. Why they dont require it now?

[Deicide4u]

20 minutes ago, king reza the great said:

Other problem is that u cant counter fanas with cavs

Of course you can't.

20 minutes ago, king reza the great said:

Moreover why only gaul should have a super op anti cav unit?

Going for a cavalry rush is almost always wrong, especially if you don't have enough APM or micro skill to use them. I sense that is your problem. Once the Fanatics arrive, you don't have enough infantry to stop them. 

[Servo]

Deleting

Edited 2 hours ago by Servo

[Servo]

deleting

Edited 2 hours ago by Servo

[real_tabasco_sauce]

With fanas, I would say we are looking at a very strong unit, but not really "broken OP". "OP" gets thrown around a lot, but you have to remember that gauls are still pretty much the best eco civ. If you moved them over to carth for example, the balance would be very different. Lastly, I would say that since they are a specialty of the gauls, I think they deserve to be pretty strong. I'd sooner nerf the champ cav play for gauls than fanas.