Motivate and help the new players to get better and stay in 0ad

[Akentas]

I have been seeing so many new players getting discouraged to play 0ad since in good games they are avoided. It is understandable and i myself exclude them too from the most games i host cuz everyone wants to have a good game and new players are hard to balance with. I try to explain them nicely they should host new player games and they wont enjoy getting rushed left and right in OP games. But i feel bad and obvio want to help them get better and want to help them integrate into the community easily.

So, i was thinking if we could make some scenario maps with rating points reward system for the new and weak players to understand the basic game mechanisms. For example, level 1 could be an easy build order for eco, they will get instructions and if they can do that they can get 5 rating points, level 2 could be how to stay calm in early cav rush and defend if they do it well 10 points and so on. I don't know if devs will implement this reward points features, but i will check the scenario builders out was thinking might try to build something with the basics i know and if new players do it i will just give them some of my points by resigning a rating game. If all the good players make scenarios with their OP strats and gives some of their points to encourage new players i think we will have lots of good players to enjoy the game with. What yall think?

[Dakara]

You are right, the beginner are the base of a game. they mainly have to play between beginner and for this they have to host game for beginner. Because when you are beginner your first goal is take fun, not win 100% game. 

But a training system would be a good thing, achieving objectives in 1-3 minutes on a personalized map with a score out of 10 or another rating system would allow the beginner to have a solid foundation.

[Deicide4u]

Beginners should be able to play against other beginners, not people who've played this game for years. 

For that to happen, more people have to play multi-player games. The MP player base is low, that's the core issue.

How do you attract players? You do that with more SP content, that is both challenging and fun. Once people start having fun with your game, they'll be more inclined to try MP.

You can't do this in reverse. 

[borg-]

Are they discouraged because they can't play alongside the best, or because they can't play at the same level as the best?

In any case, a basic introduction to the game's concepts would be enough. From there, it depends entirely on how dedicated they are to the game. You only learn by playing and losing, so I don't think donating a few points makes a difference here.

I think the biggest motivation is actually enjoying the game. From another perspective, I don't really have any challenges, other than Valirhant and Vinme, so that could be discouraging, but I really enjoy the game, I enjoy the community, and that's enough to keep me excited.

Edited July 9 by borg-

[Seleucids]

Issue is, too many players want to jump straight in and play, instead of going through tutorials which they find boring. Very few have the patience to practice boom build order against an Unassigned gaia or repeatedly train their muscle memory on a particular move. It took me 3 months of playing against Unassigned every day to speed up from maxing out at min 17 to P3 etc at min 13. But of course I had to develop a build order from scratch but there are many available builds on Youtube nowadays so it should be a lot less tedious. Nevertheless, it does take a cosmic at least a few weeks to be qualified for TGs and few months to become 1500+

 

If you are a new player and do want to become good, my best advice:

1. Read this document: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=59405&key=0e4a1a2f3507b7a9efd182a59d94f703

2. Watch and learn from pro players, spectate them in TGs or 1v1s. Talk to them, ask them why they do something, how they do it and try to reproduce their moves yourself. Don't be afraid to chat with people in the lobby. 

3. Play 1v1s against people who are somewhat better than you. Watch replay after loosing, see your mistake and try to improve from that. 

4. Set small steps of progress. Lock on to someone who is just a bit better than you and try to defeat them. Don't go straight up to top 10 and challenge them, because they will vapourise you so suddenly that you won't learn much. 

[Emacz]

32 minutes ago, Seleucids said:

Issue is, too many players want to jump straight in and play, instead of going through tutorials which they find boring. Very few have the patience to practice boom build order against an Unassigned gaia or repeatedly train their muscle memory on a particular move. It took me 3 months of playing against Unassigned every day to speed up from maxing out at min 17 to P3 etc at min 13. But of course I had to develop a build order from scratch but there are many available builds on Youtube nowadays so it should be a lot less tedious. Nevertheless, it does take a cosmic at least a few weeks to be qualified for TGs and few months to become 1500+

 

If you are a new player and do want to become good, my best advice:

1. Read this document: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/applications/core/interface/file/attachment.php?id=59405&key=0e4a1a2f3507b7a9efd182a59d94f703

2. Watch and learn from pro players, spectate them in TGs or 1v1s. Talk to them, ask them why they do something, how they do it and try to reproduce their moves yourself. Don't be afraid to chat with people in the lobby. 

3. Play 1v1s against people who are somewhat better than you. Watch replay after loosing, see your mistake and try to improve from that. 

4. Set small steps of progress. Lock on to someone who is just a bit better than you and try to defeat them. Don't go straight up to top 10 and challenge them, because they will vapourise you so suddenly that you won't learn much. 

I know way too many of these players, and some of them even make multiple accounts to try and trick you into thinking they are good and improved....

[diagonalo]

REMOVE MARKET BUG. JUSTICE FOR THE CAPITALISTS.

[soshanko]

New players don't require challenges. They need a well-designed training system that will make them at least a medium level player. and as there are not enough players? a training method and co-op challenge facing elements in multiplayer lobby can be helpful. also, a rise in rating can boost their confidence and help them feel more into the game.

[ffm2]

A bit derived brainstorming: Some mini-challenges would be nice. The unknown player could do this challenge to prove a bit game knowledge.

I think of it like this:

1. Host sets up a game in the lobby

2. A few players join, one is unknown

3. Unknown player gets the mini-game to solve

4. The unknown player plays the game and parallel the host could set up the game, balance the teams, new players can join

As a side effect one could also test the connection between host and unknown player.

Edited July 10 by ffm2

[Deicide4u]

From watching "pro" players, you can tell what sets them apart from others.

1) They never stop producing units.
2) They keep their resources low, always.
3) They have fast enough APM to micro while keeping tabs at home, even when there's lag in the late game.
4) They don't waste resources on tech that's not useful enough. @borg- doesn't even research "Baskets".
5) They prefer massive amounts of CS to training champions. The reason is that champions don't justify their cost in matches between the two good players. Champions also can't work.
6) They balance out their economy to avoid floating too much resources.
7) They make liberal use of barter.
8) They expand only when the supply of critical resources gets low.
9) They build only enough production buildings that their economy will support. Another reason to avoid training expensive champions.
10) They seldom build Temples. Healers are not that useful unless they're upgraded, which is too expensive.

Others can fill in the blanks, but that's the gist of it.

Edited July 10 by Deicide4u

[Seleucids]

4 hours ago, ffm2 said:

A bit derived brainstorming: Some mini-challenges would be nice. The unknown player could do this challenge to prove a bit game knowledge.

I think of it like this:

1. Host sets up a game in the lobby

2. A few players join, one is unknown

3. Unknown player gets the mini-game to solve

4. The unknown player plays the game and parallel the host could set up the game, balance the teams, new players can join

As a side effect one could also test the connection between host and unknown player.

This is an amazing idea! What kind of puzzle shall we set? 

But if they successfully solve the puzzle, they will be interrogated for their smurf accounts lol

[Gurken Khan]

1 hour ago, Seleucids said:

This is an amazing idea! What kind of puzzle shall we set? 

Marking all parts of a picture with a CC or John Connor would perfectly mirror their ability to play 0ad.

[Atrik]

3 hours ago, Seleucids said:

This is an amazing idea! What kind of puzzle shall we set? 

Help this unit to gather some apples as fast as possible.

Spoiler

• Chop a pin tree => level < 800
• Walk around buildings to gather => level > 800
• Make a gate in palisade to pass => level > 1200
• Garrison the house and unload it on the apple tree => level > 1400
• Delete the storehouse to get to the apple tree => level > 1600
   

 

Edited July 11 by Atrik

[ffm2]

Some fighting scenarios where

- Units walk under fire, which could be fixed by pressing H (stop). So the units attack the nearest units.

- Units walk to a fight in a row like ducklings, which need the action to gather together before entering a fight.

- Appropriate reaction to 3 cavs running around a base searching for weak spots (garrison women only on one side of farms)

[Deicide4u]

12 hours ago, Gurken Khan said:

Marking all parts of a picture with a CC or John Connor would perfectly mirror their ability to play 0ad.

- Pick all images depicting an Elite Roman Hastatus. Not Roman Swordsman, our newbies need to know the specific name AND be able to recognize an elite rank.

- Pick an image showing the correct hero model (shows a hero icon of Publius Cornelius Scipio).

- Type the correct specific name of this unit (shows an icon of Kushite champion temple guard).

Now, THIS will definitely make beginners love the game.

Spoiler

/s

 

Edited July 11 by Deicide4u

[ffm2]

Some quiz could also be fun and help to learn some specific things. Team boni of civs or catafalques. For catafalques you are hit with a wall of text and don't have time to read in game anyway, so it could help to learn them. But then one needs to maintain this each balance as well.

[guerringuerrin]

AOE II has some very simple challenge in which the player can learn elemental skills like Early economy basics; reach Fast Castle Age in the shortest possible time; standard booming, rushing the enemy, defending a rush. And the player receives a medal based on their performance level

[Deicide4u]

I was trying to be funny, but it seems there are people who seriously want to add these. 

Just play the game and follow the basics. Watch the best players. Development work should go to more important issues, like campaigns. 

[Seleucids]

11 hours ago, Atrik said:

Delete the storehouse to get to the apple tree => level > 1600

Why not delete the siege workshop?

[Seleucids]

6 minutes ago, Deicide4u said:

like campaigns. 

What kind of campaigns would be fun but also helping the players to improve? Currently I have all of the fighting skill scenarios. I got build orders planned but I just realised how boring it would be to play through it  I need some ideas. 

[guerringuerrin]

1 hour ago, Deicide4u said:

Development work should go to more important issues, like campaigns. 

I'm sure many people would find it fun to challenge themselves with tasks like those in AOE2, where you can improve your times/results while learning the basic mechanics of competitive multiplayer. Another good and fun way is through campaigns—while they might not be as focused on technique improvement, they can create immersion and a lot of engagement. Other people enjoy reading specific build order PDFs, copying them, and refining them. I guess there's no single successful formula. But all of these approaches have proven, in different contexts, to attract different types of players.
Anyone willing to work on any of these things is more than welcome 

Edited July 11 by guerringuerrin

[Atrik]

44 minutes ago, Seleucids said:

Why not delete the siege workshop?

Was mostly a troll post, didn't though that it was actually serious thread.