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I played a 2v2 and it was a fun game

Not the first map I've made using Atlas editor, but it's the first I'm feeling rather satisfied about I had the Nile river delta in mind but I wasn't looking to create an accurate representation this time. This map is basically a river system deep enough to hold the largest class warships, with every bit of land connected by shallows and therefore not requiring ships at all. Thought it might provide a fun and interesting scenario with a lot of possibilities. Any thoughts/suggestions?

Livius article on the Garamantians: https://www.livius.org/articles/place/garamantes/ An article in French with a lot of details: https://www.persee.fr/doc/antaf_0066-4871_2001_num_37_1_1331

thanks to you for testing it.

https://github.com/Haroldgomez777/0ad-maximalists-map/commit/74ce381f5c65e51357e53a40d6034a7bf713168b it works!!!!

https://github.com/Haroldgomez777/0ad-maximalists-map/releases/tag/1.2

(but I was making a joke) Epic @Seleucids

Across all domains, the very opposite is true. New power tools enrich any discipline. Obviously it stands true to 0ad where teaching yourself to make a repetitive task, isn't hard or challenging, but just take space for you to think, or try new things. You or others admitted this was the main unfair advantage that it provides earlier. If ever you switch off the auto-trainer, you retain the new technics you had the brain space to try out : so the learning curve actually got UNflattened. For the other points, I already replied elsewhere so I'm done here with the thread.

A GUI mod should not change the way the game works underneath, only the way you graphically interface with it. Yes, but you are forgetting that the spirit of competition drives one player to be better than another and that as a direct result, players with high APM do better than players that cannot keep up. This is inescapable. Automation generally is not the solution because it just decreases the number of actions a player can do, which flattens the learning curve. Instead, the ways in which an action can be better than another action, strategic options, should be increased. This allows one players fewer, smarter actions to have more of an impact. I'm trying to help with this last part

If this is referencing the mentioned feature of ProGUI that automatically restarts the auto-queue when you once again have enough resources, then I think it's a stretch to describe that as "self-managing the barracks". Self-managing the barracks would mean more like the game automatically making decisions about what to train based on external game factors. Even with something like that on someone's computer, they do not become a formidable force just because they have those scripts installed, and they still have to pay attention to where all of their units are, and if unit production has stopped or is slowing down, why is that so? And that's not to say that the script always makes the "right" choice; as I said, you become more predictable of a player when you over-rely on these tools, and this actually makes you a worse player even if your score in the summary seems to be improving. I think you are confusing several issues here: 1. This is not how the ProGUI/ModernGUI a.k.a. Atrik's Mod smarttrain works. The mod's GUI allows you to define your army's composition as a percentage or infinitely produce certain units of your choice. Then it automatically assigns all available Barracks(and other military units) to produce the most efficient amount of units based on your available resources. It does this instantly, and as long as you are not haused and have enough resources, it will continue to produce units infinitely as long as you have the resources available and will produce always on idle barracks rather than the vanila system which sometimes triggers a bug in where you end up with some barracks stacked of units and many barracks idles. It never stops production unless: you have no resources, no houses available, you have reached the unit ratio assigned in the GUI, or you make a mistake in this assignment. This means you can continue maneuvering your units on the attack and not have to alternate between selecting your barracks to monitor their production status, allowing you to focus your attention in the right place at crucial moments. Another, more irrelevant but more graphic example is autostart: you configure your preference in the options, and as soon as the game starts, it automatically moves your units to the resource you've chosen and simultaneously produces units from the CC. That is, you can literally have your hands off the computer and your eyes closed for the first ten seconds (more or less depending on the batch size you chose and whether or not you decide to build a storehouse/farmstead) of the game while the other players execute the orders manually. 2. This is somewhat irrelevant if we discuss the root of the disagreement as has already been discussed in many threads, which is the automation of orders. Using automation won't inevitably lead you to victory, and it's not the only variable that defines your skill as a player, just as using a revealed map won't necessarily lead you to victory. So I could use your argument to say that using a revealed map doesn't necessarily give you an advantage. Do you agree with using a revealed map? I imagine not. But I don't mean to confuse things. Ultimately, some aspects of the multiplayer environment are defined by consensus. 3. This isn't necessarily the case either. Automation significantly improves the average player's production, but it doesn't define their style. You can play in very different ways using it. I wanted to limit myself to responding only to the short paragraph of mine that you quoted (which, by the way, I believe does not fully reflect the substantial part of my argument when I have intervened on this topic), but I will add a few short quotes to try to convey my point of view to you more fully. 4. Returning to the topic of consensus: a similar case can be seen in AoE2, where unit production is entirely manual. The community reached a consensus that using self-produced mods in a competitive multiplayer environment was cheating. On the other hand, some mods that visually modify the game, such as making trees smaller or showing fish icons in the water, ended up becoming almost a standard, and top players can be seen using them. Here, we have not yet reached the necessary consensus on what constitutes a fair multiplayer environment and what does not. This was one of the reasons I stopped participating in these discussions, which ultimately became aggressive and circular arguments. I felt frustrated when I realized neither side was budging on their position, and while I'm against using automation, I have a greater interest in bringing positions closer and reaching a certain consensus. But this is impossible if the parties don't budge on some aspect and if there's no attempt to reduce the discussion to more basic issues instead of prioritizing personal tastes or totally subjective and anecdotal opinions like "I produce the same with or without automation," or "I'm still better than you even if you use ProGUI," or "I'm bored of repeating the same task over and over," or "without that mod you wouldn't be as good." At the end of the day, I believe that the most important thing in an RTS game is to build a sense of fairness in a competitive multiplayer environment. I think the contrast between a system as limiting and buggy as the vanilla version of 0ad and the improved ProGUI system is so great that many players have felt unequal, and there's nothing we can do about it other than hope that whoever uses it doesn't use it, and hope that those we don't know if they use is don't use it, or watch replays to detect who uses it (wtf??). So, it's also understandable that without easy and secure mechanisms to detect mods, so that hosts can choose whether or not to allow mods in the game, the feeling of powerlessness grows and sometimes the responses of those who use the mod are arrogant and this generates even more animosity. I'm currently working on a mod that I plan to PR for the next version of the game that eliminates (or at least considerably mitigates) the bug in vanilla that causes units to be assigned to already occupied barracks when producing from multiple barracks, leaving other barracks free when the necessary resources are insufficient, while respecting the essence of the system, which is automation-free. I have received help from @Atrikto do this and I believe it has now been incorporated into ModernGUI. Even with the major disagreements I have with him on these aspects of the mod, we have been able to work together.

That's the style of m7600 who is no longer part of these forums.

You are correct. I was neither precise nor vague enough. The best definition might just be the one from wikipedia. "Advantage beyond normal gameplay is vague enough to be interpreted correctly in many different areas. For 0ad, the interpretation might be "Any advantage that could not be obtained by changing "normal" parameters, like setup, connection or settings and necessitates a modification". Thus, any change you make to alleviate "cheap" hardware or a certain disability would not be considered cheating, but any macro, that lets you execute 2 orders with one click would still be cheating.

again, this is correct. You make solid points, just not any that counter the fact that those mods are cheating. Like, autociv is brilliant for its lobby changes (automatically assigning civs, pressing tab to cycle through all different names that start with the same letter, pingall restrictions and /link), its building hotkeys should probably be added to the base game, as should the panel that shows all spectators. But as good as the mod and its impact on the "0ad ecosystem" are, it's still a cheat. You cant just say "Mod xy is good for 0ad, thus it cant be a cheat". Also, cheating isnt even bad. Like, ive cheated in so many singleplayer games and casual multiplayer games its uncountable. If I look at my siblings screen while playing AoE2 FFA, thats cheating. But who cares, its fun. The only argument why autociv might not qualify as cheating while proGUI does, is precisely that so many people use it. If it becomes the norm, then, according to wikipedia, it ceases to be cheating: "Cheating in video games involves a video game player using various methods to create an advantage beyond normal gameplay," Huh. I guess I did not think about that. It sounds reasonable, considering many people like to have a very "clean" image and expressing interest in a cheat sounds bad if you come from more competitive games... That leaves me in a bit of a precarious situation, as I dont like to lie/whitewash something I truly believe to be a cheat, but also dont want to stop anybody from using autociv or proGUI. What would you call a mod that is not suitable for competitive play, but acceptable in a more casual environment? Just "uncompetitive mod"?

Be careful with this. You have better hardware than me, e.g. better mouse, stronger GPU, so you get more FPS than me. I am nerfed by lag and you have an advantage over me so you are cheating. Autociv gives you a stats panel. The enhanced GUI mods are ugly but just having cube trees and grass raise my skill by at least 300. But jagsus plays worse with cube trees because he finds it mentally discomforting. Some like to see new icons whereas some want uniform icons from A23. If GUI mods are really only GUI levels then it's really just the same as enabling some graphics options in the settings.

are they, though? Atrik argues, that proGUI is and that but these are not arguments why it is not a cheat. These might be arguments that it should be (atleast in parts) added to vanilla 0ad. In fact, both of these arguments actually make proGUI more of a cheat, if anything. As an improvement to the GUI (in the sense Atrik describes) is by definition an advantage (easier to use, quick to wrap your head around, many more meaningful buttons). And more displayed stats are pretty obviously an advantage. And any advantage you get over others by a mod is unfair, thus cheating. (I still dont have a problem with proGUI btw)

Unfortunately, no matter how meticulous and infallible your arguments are, you just cannot convince some of bigoted 0ad users. Those who insist that GUI mods are cheats will never change their mind even if proven wrong. They will just ban and insult. This has been the case with most debates in 0ad community and it's probably recommendable to stop wasting your precious time writing essays that they will never bother to read (some players don't even read forums). I have tried to reason like you in the past but all I got was insults and hate. If you want to use GUI mods, just do it. The haters don't have the skills to find out what mods you are using. I myself do allow proGUI modernGUI or whatever, as long as it doesn't throw global errors to other clients.

This thread is going on with ""progui"" quoted every single comment but with none of the participant actually ever tried it right? The gui mod have orders of magnitude more clickable buttons and displayed stats the vanilla one, so don't worry, those who dare to use it probably won't lack stimulation lol. Yet, in my experience, most user wrap their head around how to use the features and read the stats pretty quickly. It's not particularly impressive, but good UX was what drove it's development all along. Commercially, UX refer both to ease of use, or reading of data AND user satisfaction because it's never considered that limitations can make any user better off. It's been improved over a lineage of mods, merged plenty of ideas from a variety of folks. Even for the parts I did, a tone of it was inspired by feedback and suggestions, or merging other mods. The result is arguably, a good layer of improvements to the gui, and a new way to experience the game, your way (tones of options, also coming from suggestions and requests). @WiseKind consider trying it. ModernGUI tread

Its contradicting to say this is "your definition" of a real-time game and then follow up with this: As, according to the definition you gave, most forms of chess are actually real-time. As are basically all turn-based strategy games I have played. Sure, there might be some day-spanning "mobile games", but for most video games, you dont just leave for any amount of time. I guess the only way "your definition" makes sense is if you have a different definition of "must" aswell. I dont have to be present in the first minute of a 0ad game, I will just lose if I'm not there. As is the case in chess. If you spend 5min of the 8min you have for your game on the toilet, you will lose by time. Also, you don't get to define what "real-time" means in this context. Neither do I. According to wikipedia, "Real-time strategy (RTS) is a subgenre of strategy video games that does not progress incrementally in turns,[1] but allow all players to play simultaneously, in 'real time.'" So "real-time" means all players can do things simultaneously. Now, as there are myriad options on what each player can do over the course of a game and there are (on average) up to 200 units to control, plus 10 or more production buildings, plus 2 to 8 buildings with technologies, it is quite obvious that, by design, a player that can do more things simultaneously will have an advantage. That is the nature of RTS games. If player 1 can execute the same strategy (give the same orders) as player 2, but in a shorter time, he has "free time" in which he can do something "extra" or just think about his next move, precisely because the game is real-time and they play simultaneously. Your opinion, that the "input speed" of the players shouldn't matter and players should be allowed to install as many mods to reduce how often they have to click goes directly against the challenge of simultaneous gameplay. RTS players generally want that the player that can execute more meaningful actions in the same time wins. And that means either the player whose actions are more meaningful, or the player who can make more actions that are as meaningful. If proGUI actually just restarted autoqueue, if wouldnt have brought about such a reaction. As far as I understood, you can tell proGUI (through some button or something) "I want 50% slingers and 50% spearman, but do not use my food if I have only 200 left". Then it will automatically produce units from all your barracks, while keeping the batches as big as possible, without letting your food drop below 200. This is much different than a button to restart autoqueue. ... It also stays captivating and interesting by forcing the player to keep an eye on many different places at once, demanding quick reactions and great multitasking abilities, having the player learn that they can't just do one thing and wait for the results, but do many things at once to optimize their empire and elevate their skills. Indeed, those things are not the same. But consider: If you cant concentrate on/keep track of many things, a high APM will not be of any use to you. This is a natural limitation. Many meaningless actions cannot counter one meaningful action. On the other hand, if you have a high concentration and are able to think of all the things that need to be done at once, but you can't keep up with it, because you are too slow physically, you can always just, train more (and get faster) or think more and get better at prioritizing the truly important actions. It is not impossible to be a world-class RTS player with low APM. Not in AoE2 and even less so in 0ad. That doesnt mean we should just remove this challenge (that players should learn to prioritize or get quicker).

Yes, it's terrible. "Convert Infantry to Marian Legionaries" - infantry encompasses all pedestrian soldiers; if swordsmen are meant it should say that. "... and cavalry to Auxiliaries" - what cavalry and what the heck are auxiliaries? They're not in the structure tree. Neither is "conscript infantry".

I don't know if there still really is a treasury committee, or who's a member of it, but in general the report sounds good and it's hard to argue with money coming in to the project rather than going out

My map. I'm really bad with map textures.

Introducing God's Eye. I've been working on this mod for about just 48hrs now. Not so lone but due to the pace I'm moving, I am almost done with beta version .0.01 and I'm looking for testers who will use the mod, discover bugs and add it to the known issues so that i can get it patched and release the entire mod to everyone as soon as possible. Don't hesitate to inbox me if you are willing to help build up this mod or have any interesting feature you would like to request. My arms are opened!, Request a feature or suggest and it will be added as soon as I can. PM me if you would like to test the ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ God's Eye was created in attempt to bring back our favorite mod of all time, Fgod mod - by @ffffffff This mod is inspired by FGOD Mod, part of the code may be from the original fgod mod made by @ffffffff , all rights reserved. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- v0.0.1 updated: v0.0.2 (6/30/2022) updated: v0.0.3 (7/02/2022) updated: v0.0.4 (7/03/2022) - reduced file size and cleanup updated: v0.0.6 (7/03/2022) - reduced file size and cleanup updated: v0.0.7 (9/28/2022) - compatible with a26 Features Overview Auto Login Vision Ally Stats Auto Away Start into lobby Improved UI Design Functions with all mod Network warnings Late Observer Joins Auto Share Resources Among Teammates When You Resign A Team Game Fight Ratio Calculator Lobby Notification from in-game New music added Sound on message sent added New chat notification sound added Ping players to ready during game setup Ping players to join your game from lobby Added easy team numbers to easily set your hosts to 1v1, 2v2, 4v4 , ffa , etc. Added smurf highlighter - Highlight smurf in the game easily with a single button Added buddies sorting Known Issues Minor typos ( fixed ) Unclickable chat input Installation guide; 1. Download both mod.json and godeye.zip files ( attached to this post ) 2. Make a new folder and name it godseye in your mods folder 3. Paste the mod.json and godseye.zip file, no need to unzip it 4. After following the above steps, you are good to go! Open the game and you will see it in your mod list Alternatively, you can download it from the game through the mod downloader or visit https://0ad.mod.io/gods-eye-mod?preview=c0076b5082eb4209ca4277950830f43d Mod Folder locations- linux into ~/.local/share/0ad/mods/godseye windows typically: ~\Documents\My Games\0ad\mods\godseye mac: ~/Library/Application\ Support/0ad/mods/godseye New update: v.0.0.6 ( file size reduced ) mod.json godseye.zip New update: v.0.0.6 ( file size reduced ) godseye.zip Main Lobby Page Player List Panel Game List Panel Chat Panel ( Additional Buttons ) God's Eye Settings Page Main PreGame Page

These small details expose pictures as AI generated:

2 Player versions (day & night) uploaded to original post

So you want some new checksums on each mod to be performed upon login or something? I've just tested and modified signed incompatible mods are joinable by players with the original one as I was expecting. So I don't understand what you mean, I'm probably missing something. Wanting the game to introduce a features that clearly will downgrade user experience, just to attempt to enforce a ban on a single mod is totally out of measure, add to it that (what I would consider) the ultimate cheat is available from command prompt; some hacks a widely spread, and now it's just ridiculous, yes. Sorry if that sounds like mocking but clearly I can't even have a clue of wtf is that hysteria about progui. Players that already can't bear such unfair advantage provided by the mod are already successful in enforcing players not to use them in there host....

It isn't? Undisplayed mods wouldn't work that way either, unless the player uses a recompiled version of 0ad, which is a much higher hurdle than just installing a mod. So you're arguing that preventing some cheats is pointless, because there are still others? In my opinion the best way to have an even playing field is to contribute useful features directly to 0ad. That way all players have access to them. Also splitting "harmless" features and features which might be considered cheating into separate mods would also solve this issue.

Skipping replying to degenerate accusations of dishonor and what not... Not even sure some actually play MP... The version on mod.io is technically compatible. It has however the compatibility check turned on. If it wasn't, it would have been better to measure the popularity of the features in the mod. And why not consider adding some to the game. Some are pretty obvious like idle building notifications, list of all units... I already pointed this out multiple times elsewhere. Boongui top panel is also much more modern looking then the vanilla one, same for fgod panels... Now about the famous auto-trainer, it's also making the game much nicer to play for some players. You get increased control over production and it works seemingly compared to vanilla auto-queue. It's quite a bit unforeseen to have a single panel to control all buildings in AOE type rts but this too isn't that stretched off to think of an adaptation for vanilla ui. This would probably not be the case at least for the foreseeable future in 0ad, but, despite a few people pretending the opposite, auto-trainer doesn't provide any substantial advantages. If you turn on vanilla auto-queue in all buildings you will have the same APM required then having to manage auto-trainer. Sure, the batchs resize themselves and you don't have to panic when the game throw you the "Insufficient resources" error message yet it's not going to impact your game performance noticeably. Theoretically the dynamic batch would be optimized, but in practice left-over resources just get consumed seconds later by another building, and overall it's not that much harder to consume resources with any of theses systems.

Just added a night mode of this map to the original post! 2 player versions are on the way.

"Ask to start"? Can you explain it maybe its possible to add it. I am also planning on adding the Techs tab in the summary to show the total number of techs each player used in the game I already added a fight ratio feature to calculate how much a player contributed in fights during the game, i updated it yesterday. There will be more features like "auto pos" automatically showing or pinging your position to your teammates during a team game whiles you focus on building your eco, you don't have to waste time typing pos or pinging. @sarcoma i believe the auto log into lobby should be an option in your mod instead of compulsory, i just checked it out. Also, if you want...we can combine both ideas and made it into one mod, cheer!

Hello everyone! I hope you all are fine Today, im making this post to inform you that i made a YouTube channel in the one i'll be uploading matches, strats and tips to improve in this game In first videos i'll be speaking spanish (i think that could be nice that someone makes videos in spanish) but i don't discard to make videos in english too. I'll try to puut subtittles in videos to make it understable to everyone With no more to say, i send you huge greetings The name's channel is: Stockfish0ad Link: