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===[TASK]=== African minifaction buildings

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1 hour ago, Sundiata said:

Tin Hanan, mother of the Tuareg, a 4th century ruling Queen (Tuareg were/are matriarchal!):

 

There has not been a documented matriarchal society ever in the human history, in the sense of an inverted patriarchal society. You can find matrifocal, matrilineal or polyandric societies, and the gender equality between them varies, but nothing in the sense that woman have more power than male.

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There are several North American Indigenous tribes that are matriarchal  though colonial governments refused to see it in fact they made laws forcing patriarchy on all tribes being Canadian this is actually part of current political events example war chiefs where chosen by clan mothers for specific terms and even dismissed for any disrespectful act.And yes this is documented just not commonly known as it does not fit dominate cultural myths.

Enjoy the Choice :)

Edited by Loki1950
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@av93, actually you're right, Tuareg are matrilineal and not matriarchal, my bad... Although they are sometimes referred to as matriarchal because of the position, and great freedoms enjoyed by women in traditional Tuareg society, much more so than in most other Islamic societies today. I do believe that there were a few matriarchal societies though, not an expert here.

I hope you understand why I made the mistake with regard to the Tuareg:

  • Women were allowed to have many sexual partners before marriage
  • Women were allowed to own property including tents and animals (the most valuable property to Tuaregs)
  • Women were allowed to divorce (even throwing divorce parties) and kept most of the stuff through some sort of traditional prenuptial agreement 
  • Women were traditionally consulted in politics (although men did indeed do most of the talking)
  • Women could become ruling queens...

Men were almost subservient in Tuareg society, as in, I've seen documentaries were for example the woman would tell the man "make me some tea", upon which the man would promptly get up to make his wife some tea. Not saying that's proof of matriarchalism, but if you see it, you'll understand... The women snaps her fingers, man complies. Pretty interesting... In modern times the traditional Tuareg way of life is giving way to sedentary lifestyles and arabization, eroding the traditional position and role of women. Christianization and Islamization have actually eroded the position of women in many African societies (including my own). In Akan society (matrilineal) Queen Mothers are second in rank only to the King himself, and these women are king-makers. The largest rebellion against British rule in Ashanti for example was famously led by Yaa Asantewaa, Queen Mother of Ejisu. It's not uncommon in Africa...

This is interesting:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3131511/Sex-Sahara-Striking-photographs-mysterious-Islamic-tribe-women-embrace-sexual-freedoms-dictate-gets-divorce-don-t-wear-veil-men-want-beautiful-faces.html

 

This is so sweet, I need this in my life...:

12471446_517037808465943_3483928317631690564_o.thumb.jpg.773802d48dcf42dd23d27e75807e648e.jpg

 

Wait, what am I talking about, I have 0 A.D., silly me...

 

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Everything that you're talking could be or its true, I would still believing my anthropology teachers. Sorry that I can't give a big argument for the position (I didn't attend to much family and gender classes), but if matriarchy exists or has been existed, my professors would have defended the existence (both male and female ones that I had).

In past societies, how many female warchiefs and soldiers? (the existence of a few known doesn't prove an egalitarian society). Women is still seen has a link to the nature, to the house, and reproductive body? How many leads a "company"? How many are politicians (senate)? Consulted doesn't mean leading..., How are the rights about them (it's the same punishment infidelity for men and women)?

I repeat, cultural diversity has been and it's big., there're some societies with some aspects regarding gender, more egalitarian than others, but there's none where women rules the public shpere, power and violence as men. That doesn't mean also that women in societies have been powerless. When there's power, there's also resistance.

Sorry but as I said, I didn't attend too much this classrooms.

Regarding African civs, apart from Carthaginians, Egyptians and Kushites (already implemented), I wonder what civs could be depicted besides Garamantians and Numidians? Basically we have Berbers, right? What about sub-Saharan civs or empires, @Sundiata

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Can't really say that I totally agree with your reasoning @av93, generally speaking, the last 3000 years or so, the "civilized" world has indeed been mostly patriarchal, and relatively (very) oppressive to women. But much more egalitarian societies also existed, including many clear examples of powerful ruling queens and warrior women. I'm struggling to understand your resistance to the idea that women played key roles (including rulers and warriors) in those societies where it is indeed well documented. Kushites are only one of them. Feel free to read up on the role of women in Scythian society or gender roles among the indigenous people of North America. It's nothing like traditional patriarchy... Polyandry even exists in some South Asian societies today...

Time for some random theorizing on the origins of modern Africans...:

Spoiler

 

Kushites were matrilineal (Nubians still are today)l, had at least, 8 ruling queens, the concept of Queen Mothers was entrenched in their society (a significant difference with Egypt), and women played otherwise incredibly important roles like, "God's wife of Amun" in Thebes, (a high priestess), one of the main political keys to Upper Egypt. The main difference between the Egyptians and Kushites is the "Nilo-Saharan to Afro-Asiatic ratio". Kushites are much more Nilo-Saharan, which comes with it's own cultural substrate. This may include the elevated position of women in their society.

Garamantes are the result of southern migration of Afro-Asiatics into areas populated by (Western) Nilo Saharans. Afro Asiatic people are not known for their matriliniality, but, what if: matriliniality among the Nilo-Saharan peoples is an ancient neolithic hold-over, which infused with the northern Afro-Asiatic, eventually giving rise to the Matrilinial (borderline matriarchal) Tuareg... 

There are many people who believe that a considerable number of West African populations are at least partially descendant from ancient immigrants coming from the Nile Valley. It's often negated as Afro-centric jibber jabber, but there are a number of compelling points. Especially since becoming so much more intimate with Kushite culture, the ancient connections are quite apparent in the form of specific musical instruments, weapons, and cultural practices like scarification and cavalry traditions. Many indirect, less tangible connections exist in the form of religion, language, metallurgy and architecture, agriculture and so forth. There are even clues in the genetics of West and East-African populations with regard to common ancestry and admixture. 

I think Kush forms a missing link between the Nile Valley and West-Africa, with possibly indirect cultural transfers across the Sahel (perhaps in times of political turmoil in Kush). I think the matrilineal nature of certain West African societies (and many other aspects) may stem from these Westward migrations south of the Sahara, displacing and absorbing the local hunter gatherers, in what were then very sparsely populated regions, giving rise to the modern West African populations. I think there was a similar process southwards, eventually giving rise to the so-called "Bantus", spreading to sub-equatorial Africa displacing and absorbing the ancient local hunter gatherers (paleo Africans) originally living there (e.g. Pygmies, Hadzabe's and San Bushmen). Matrilineality was just a part of a much larger neolithic Nilo Saharan substrate that spread out.

This is significant because this theorized Westward and Southward migration carried certain genes with them, developed in northern Africa (in proximity to Afro-Asiatics), that allows for digestion of milk, higher tolerance to alcohol, less susceptible to a host of diseases, and allows people to grow way taller and physically stronger than hunter gatherers... Modern Africans!

Anyway, this stuff is a bit controversial and tends to lead to huge debates... But it's worth a proper investigation if you ask me.

 

 

Edited by Sundiata

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50 minutes ago, av93 said:

Regarding African civs, apart from Carthaginians, Egyptians and Kushites (already implemented), I wonder what civs could be depicted besides Garamantians and Numidians? Basically we have Berbers, right? What about sub-Saharan civs or empires, @Sundiata

Not really in the BC period, that I know of, except for the (proto-) Aksumites. The rest of Africa becomes incredibly interesting from the A.D. period onwards (especially from the early medieval period onwards), but before that, vast areas of Africa were only very sparsely populated by ancient hunter gatherers (paleo-Africans, short people), who were absorbed by later peoples migrating south and westwards beginning only a few thousand years ago... (Hence my random theorizing above). The exceptions are the Dhar Tichitt and surrounding culture (500 stone settlments in what was once a green savannah in modern day Mauritania) and the Nok, of northern Nigeria (iron workers and terracotta experts), and although important, they're both too obscure to feature convincingly... 

Axum, although absolutely delicious, is just a little too late for our timeframe and the Kingdom of D'mt is too early (and obscure).

In medieval times we get the really big players, like Mali Empire, Songhai, Kanem-Bornu, the Hausa Kingdoms, the Swahilli Coast, Kingdom of Makuria, the Shona Empires, Zagwe Dynasty, Kingdom of Kongo etc... So Millenium A.D. and late medieval mods should be interesting.

Edited by Sundiata
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13 minutes ago, Sundiata said:

@av93 But much more egalitarian societies also existed, including many clear examples of powerful ruling queens and warrior women. I'm struggling to understand your resistance to the idea that women played key roles (including rulers and warriors) in those societies where it is indeed well documented.

Sorry, I think i'm wording bad. Didn't say that women played key roles: for example one could argue that gathering is far more important than hunting in the everyday diet in gathering-hunting societies (but it doesn't have the same symbolic and social value). If we speak about public roles, talking about power, English also have had female queens, that means that their society it's more egalitarian? It's not sufficient to conclude that, we need more evidences.

But my main point is that never, the women never have act like an inverted patriarchy were man could be almost the possession of the woman like an object, or where women made almost all decisions or have almost all the power. As I said, I'm not negating that there have been more egalitarian societies than others.

Polyandry could be worse , being the wife of a group of man. IRC, wasn't like an inverted polyiginia (where a man rule over a group of women). Take it with a grain of salt BTW

 

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Well, women could own male slaves in several matrilineal cultures, and I'm quite sure the power of a number of Kushite Queens was pretty absolute... Princesses also seemed to play an important role... Female gods like Isis and Mut were among the most revered of the gods. I know these are not absolute proofs of matriarchy, neither am I trying to prove that, just clarifying that a Scythian amazon would totally murder the living daylights out of you if you looked at her the wrong way, or maybe she'd castrate you and keep you as a pet... And I think that's pretty cool, because it is indeed a rare sight. Just not non-existant. Tuareg are a nice example of that. 

17 minutes ago, av93 said:

Polyandry could be worse ,

not in this case, trust me, the men were totally the b*****s in the examples I saw... It was weird... And it was village wide, in several communities...

Edited by Sundiata

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So this civ will be your new battle horse @Sundiata ? Can't wait to see the research :)

I'm wondering though wouldn't it be better to have research on Thracians, Scythians, or are those too much Greek ? :p

 

 

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8 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

I'm wondering though wouldn't it be better to have research on Thracians, Scythians,

You're absolutely right! I always have the Thracians in the back of my mind, I just get side-tracked really easily... I hope to be able to present some more relevant Thracian references soon ;)  Scythians are that other nomadic civ we should really do, so I'm happy you mention them. Scythians and Xiongnu are the perfect counterparts of each other! Eastern vs Western steppe, wets my mouth! Thracians complete Europe (save for Germanics) 

 

11 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

So this civ will be your new battle horse

I'm still undecided. They seem more politically and culturally cohesive than Iberians and Celts. They were a very long-lived civilization with a tangible legacy and impressive roots. and they have that attractive African desert/Sahara feeling... They raided Roman coastal settlements, and Romans in turn sacked their capital, but seem to have been unable to maintain any sort of control there... I'm just not sure yet if their unit-roster would be impressive enough (in terms of what we can actually reference at least). Need to do some more digging. They're definitely on my personal shortlist for a potential next African civ. On another note, we can totally do the Aksumites for Millenium AD... They'd be pretty Amazing! Had a strong Byzantine connection and conquered South Yemen, even attacking Mecca! They're legacy is also very strong, and some Aksumite architecture still exists relatively intact today... 

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Celtic society was also matrilineal there was about six forms of marriage including guest marriage these are described quite well in Irish and Welch stories ie: the Red Branch and Tain bo Cullue  (Coolie cattle raid).

Enjoy the Choice :) 

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@av93 

I should probably clarify a little further where I'm coming from (literally). I'm an Akuapem, which is one of the Akan tribes (more than 20 million people in all), and like the other Akans (such as Ashanti, Fante Akyem, etc...) we are matrilineal. My own family is actually patrilineal, but that's just a weird local quirk that's not common outside my own town and a few others in the area (due to pre-Akan ancestry). Not only are we matrilineal, but the Queen Mothers are among the most respected institutions, working in tandem with the male chiefs and kings. They (there are many and they form powerful associations and have internal hierarchies) decide who is fit for kingship and make the selection. In addition to that, female priests are important in traditional Akan religion as well, and perform rites and rituals like their male counterparts (and can even train male priests). These cultural traits translate into modern life as well, and aren't limited to the higher echelons. On every level of society, powerful women are not rare, running businesses and entire markets, but also business empires and hold important positions in politics. Women here are generally speaking very strong, and a woman publicly beating a man is not unheard of. In fact, mobile phone videos of such occurrences are a great source of amusement to Ghanaians today :P (although domestic abuse is nothing to laugh about...). You can also see it in the army and police force. Female soldiers and police officers are common, and are nothing to mess with. In fact, after the civil war in Liberia (during which women suffered tremendously from rampant rape), all-female Ghanaian military units were sent to patrol the streets (under UN peacekeeping mission) and impress respect for women and inspire the young girls and women of that country). All-female military units aren't new to West-Africa either. The Kingdom of Dahomey (Togo) fielded an elite all-female corps, the Ahosi, numbering more than 3000 fighters... They had a fearsome reputation for decapitating their (male) captives and when Dahomey was a vassal state under the the Oyo Empire of Nigeria, they participated in a major battle against the Ashanti Empire (the battle of Atakpame, 1764). Although these societies are traditionally regarded as patriarchal, it's not comparable to other patriarchies... 

 

The Amazons of Dahomey:

20df96847f43778a84c67d2bc85c4715.thumb.jpg.b29b1f9f9897e5d70f7a1bf4b6e3944f.jpg

 

Veteran Ahosi:

2026622736_The_clbration_at_Abomey(1908)._-_The_veteran_amazones(_AHOSI_)_of_the_Fon_king_Bhanzin_Son_of_Roi_Gl.jpg.e61f1c4633d351d4c8cabfde16184580.jpg

 

These women were hardcore...

676291997_Dahomeyahosiamazonsfemalecorpsafricanwomewarriorssoldierselite.thumb.jpg.a875e530be1b0ca38c320b4fcee3187b.jpg

 

Yaa Asantwaa herself, Queen Mother of Ejisu, second in command of the Ashanti Empire. She led a final last stance against the British. After the British had kidnapped and exiled the Asantehene (King or Emperor of Ashanti) during the fourth Anglo-Ashanti war. The governor of the Gold Coast, Fredrick Hodgson, then demanded to sit on the Golden Stool. The Golden Stool (literally a golden stool) is the embodiment of the Ashanti Nation. Literally its soul, and represents its sovereignty. Ashanti would never give this up, and fought to the end defending it (The fifth Anglo-Ashanti war, also known as "The War of the Golden Stool"). When the chiefs became scared to resist the British any further, Yaa Asantwaa famously said:

  • "Now I have seen that some of you fear to go forward to fight for our king. If it were the brave days of Osei Tutu, Okomfo Anokye and Opuku Ware I, chiefs would not sit down to see their king taken without firing a shot. No white man could have dared to speak to the Chief of Asante in the way the governor spoke to you chiefs this morning. Is it true that the bravery of Asante is no more? I cannot believe it. It cannot be! I must say this: if you, the men of Asante, will not go forward, then we will. I shall call upon my fellow women. We will fight the white men. We will fight till the last of us falls on the battlefield."

Although the war ended in a total disaster for the Ashanti and the deportation of its remaining leadership, the British were never able to capture the Golden Stool, which is still considered the embodiment of Ashanti today and a great source of national pride. In fact, fearing further rebellions in Ashanti and other places in what is now Ghana, the British never really occupied the area, and opted for indirect rule instead. 

1521204558_YaaAsantewaaQueenMotherofEjisuAshanti.thumb.jpg.3fb35d84f61580dd11ec99278c793f16.jpg

Yaa Asantewaa in traditional war outfit (Batakari).  

 

Quote

Social roles of Asante women[edit]

The experience of seeing a woman serving as political and military head of an empire was foreign to British colonial troops in 19th-century Africa. Yaa Asantewaa's call upon the women of the Asante Empire is based on the political obligations of Akan women and their respective roles in legislative and judicial processes. The hierarchy of male stools among the Akan people was complemented by female counterparts. Within the village, elders who were heads of the matrilineages (mpanyimfo), constituted the village council known as the ôdekuro. The women known as the mpanyinfo, referred to as aberewa or ôbaa panyin, were responsible for looking after women's affairs. For every ôdekuro, an ôbaa panyin acted as the responsible party for the affairs of the women of the village and served as a member of the village council.[10]

The head of a division, the ôhene, and the head of the autonomous political community, the ômanhene, had their female counterparts known as the ôhemaa: a female ruler who sat on their councils. The ôhemaa and ôhene were all of the same mogya, blood or localized matrilineage. The occupant of the female stool in Kumasi state, the Asantehemaa, and therefore, the united Asante, since her male counterpart was ex-officio of the Asanthene, was a member of the Kôtôkô Council, the Executive Committee or Cabinet of the Asanteman Nhyiamu, General Assembly of Asante rulers. Female stool occupants participated not only in the judicial and legislative processes but also in the making and unmaking of war, and the distribution of land.[11]

 

I took the following picture myself during the Odwira, the most important traditional festival of Akuapem, during the durbar in Akropong, our "capital". I hope this picture of a Queen Mother helps you to understand the traditional position of women in our society :P 

1890459521_GhanaAkuapemAkropongQueenMotherAkanculturetraditionalfestivalOdwira.thumb.jpg.670c67e137ca678bee3230a39fd18c1a.jpg

 

Modern Ghanaian female troopers and police:

Ghanaian troops In Liberia:

090224-RiverCess-20_jpg.jpg.a1431828a0652ad3dbacf586e1fb4c03.jpg

 

In Ghana:

female-soldiers.jpg.e6cc6ea66891d6a373a2166281a0a168.jpg

Military-women.jpg.d683db78c9ad60fedd355c5f821bbe5d.jpg

All-Women_Militarized_Police_Unit_of_the_Ghana_Police_Service.JPG.db94e1da6dd9223764e5771b6b5b2080.JPG

banner_1.thumb.jpg.71a373cd8dba98e152d6ef4ffd5b26b0.jpg

50771276.jpg.79762812a3981fd5239f16338f3e06ce.jpg

 

 

Edited by Sundiata
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1 minute ago, av93 said:

@Sundiata what about a "Berber" civilization? Would be too broader?

Garamantes are Berber... Southern Berbers of the Sahara

North Western Berbers include Numidians and Mauretanians, inhabiting the the Maghreb. Both interesting, but unit and building diversity would be a challenge... 

I wouldn't support merging the different Berber people because of a number of reasons, most important of which being that the Garamantes were a long-lived political entity, unique in most ways, and have a unique legacy as well. Their core territories were also 2000+ kilometers apart, which is a significant distance.  

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 I found the right forum page finally. 

As Sundiata said they built foggara or Qanat, deep underground canals. 
That could be their wonder. The technology also occurs in Persia, Afghanistan, South American deserts but the Sahara has the longest and most impressive Qanat systems. Some still barely explored today. Some still run with water.  

Also some Qanat tunnels have rooms and stars out. Probably cool accommodation for those that dug and maintained them.  

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qanat
800px-Qanat_cross_section.svg.png

From on top they are just a line of holes. 
foggara-or-qanat-near-timimoun-algeria-pMost aerial photos are from Iran. 

Its not an impressive wonder visually but its an achievement. 
Also, in the desert water is the most wonderful thing you can find. The sands are wide. 

Edited by Wesley

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@Wesley I definitely think the Qanat should be an important aspect of this civ. But not a wonder. I would love for the game to be able to determine fertile and non-fertile lands on maps, preferably with a gradient (0-100% fertility). Maybe it could be tied to the current tile system for specific ground textures. Basically deserts would be non fertile, and green zones fertile. Then civs like the Garamantes, but also Persians, Ptolemies, Kushites and Seleucids would have special advantages by being able to farm in the desert using these types of qanat systems (or Saqiyas). Could add nice biome-based strategies.

 

Garamantes had some "monumental" architecture. Nothing too impressive, but there's still suitable candidates for wonders. Particularly the Al Hatia tombs at Germa:

Vue-aerienne-du-cimetiere-a-pyramides-dal-Hatiyah.png.c401924a53d04379e516bd8725272880.pngthe-tombs-of-garamantes-jarma-germa-fezzan-libya-JGAC7A.thumb.jpg.4e1db4a244de08508c6cd533291000ac.jpg741-2343.jpg.a535f4a369fb4087765fe26cd003783f.jpg

The wonder could just be a small collection of these things?

 

 

A better example of monumental architecture is the central temple of Germa (GER001.3), but that should obviously serve as the reference for the temple...

germa01_big.gif.a63f9ddeb7e41e6ffe71916f11b0293d.gif

48t1QRr.thumb.jpg.ab87da5241ab1925c0d1af704a08ec06.jpg

tLRu38O.thumb.jpg.a08e0e278c79d15ccf919848abd1e433.jpg

 

 

Examples of Greek influence, (faux Ionian and Corinthian capitals):

HQLWeK7.thumb.jpg.3bf60163d4bc77125ddd468bd33a16ab.jpg 

 

 

This structure, the mausoleum at Qasr Watwat, could easily function as the Iberian venerated statue in-game:

xLTOBPn.thumb.jpg.781013b4a364e91570b3d9cc444a5572.jpg

 

Some examples of domestic architecture (homes/workshops). Some of it was multistoried...:

Elite:

1149430208_GaramDomArch1elitehomes.thumb.jpg.a6723e8e1a8f60a0c743ab06efbee53a.jpg

 

Lower class:

JarmaDomestArch.thumb.jpg.b5860998aac090f176cafc047561b2ba.jpg

 

"

"Batiment Garamantique fouille a Saniat Jibril par Daniels"

Batiment-garamantique-fouille-a-Saniat-Jibril-par-Daniels.png.99cd684bcc6841ea138f725fcc777e5a.png

 

Germa (or Garama), and other Garamantian sites:

tFJjYE7.thumb.jpg.7128a84b5c70728a93e69a499d589315.jpg

germa-plan.jpg.36c1627cda616115486f5e78a518b413.jpg

a5JAIyP.thumb.jpg.38bc141736341cb46871642b43f6ca03.jpg

 

"Site-urbain-de-Qasr-bin-Dougba":

Site-urbain-de-Qasr-bin-Dougba.png.7965a2dfbb7b27b5c7a43ea939bcc571.png

 

libya-2.jpg.f77e533c41c0fbabff874acf79ef0e24.jpg

 

 

Germa, the capital:

ibk-1621116.thumb.jpg.fc317b759f26b805205859677b1f18a0.jpg

germa-ancient-town-2.jpg.d7016e182bdb35649fb85017b4b9b09f.jpg

 

 

Garamantian chariots:

chariots-garamantians-3.jpg.50ae02c5796af46196c821e5d51c79e8.jpg

 

People:

garaments-costumes-features.jpg.7e504eb4bc8906a088b35c0099a113ed.jpg

 

A skirmisher armed with javelins and a round shield (typical Libyan feathers in hair?) 

Warrior1a.jpg.eb1408d064e978c90944a70f2e8f963a.jpg

 

Interesting stuff:

https://historum.com/threads/the-kingdom-of-the-garamantians.118859/#lg=_xfUid-9-1550497430&slide=0

https://www2.le.ac.uk/offices/press/press-releases/2011/november/castles-in-the-desert-satellites-reveal-lost-cities-of-libya

https://www.world-archaeology.com/features/garamantes-libya/

https://www.livius.org/articles/place/garamantes/

 

Edited by Sundiata

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1 hour ago, Diatryma said:

question Saba was in Africa or was in south Arabian peninsula?

The Sabaean Kingdom or the Kingdom of Saba was a South Arabian (Yemeni) kingdom that flourished from the 8th century BC (or earlier) to the 3rd century AD, with a capital city at Ma'rib. They were an extraordinary people and another one of my personal favourites. They were master masons, built some of the world's first proper high rise apartments, were engineering experts (ma'rib dam) and rich from the Indian Ocean and Red Sea trade in incense and myrrh among other things. They actually fought a war with Rome, with an unclear outcome, at the same time that the Romans were fighting a war with the Kushites in the first century BC.

They had a very strong African connection, and explicitly Sabaean artefacts, inscriptions and architecture are known in Eritrea and Ethiopia, during the time of the African Kingdom of D'mt. It has been thought in the past that D'mt was an offshoot of the Sabaeans, but these ideas are being abandoned. Sabaean influence is undeniable though. African and South Arabian populations mixed in Ethiopia during the 1st millennium BC. During the later Ethiopian/Eritrean Aksumite Empire, the same people that destroyed the Kushites, the Aksumites actually also conquered South Arabia, then under Himyarite hegemony, (early 6th century AD), including Saba, and even attempted to conquer Mecca using war-elephants, but failed. So there's a lot of back and forth, that has been going on for thousands of years. Even today, Eritrea is absorbing the bulk of the refugees from the war in Yemen, and in the past, Ethiopians, Eritreans and Djiboutis worked in Yemen in considerable numbers. They're all distantly/vaguely related, somehow. 

To be honest, I want Sabaeans more than I want Garamantes, lol :P In a perfect world, it would be like this:

Early Arabs (north and south):

  • Nabataeans (Northern Arabia)
  • Sabaeans (South Arabia)

Proto Berbers (West and East):

  • Numidians (North Algeria/Tunisia)
  • Garamantes (Fezzan/South Libya) 

 

Sabaeans, mmmmm....

Temple of Awwam at Ma'rib:

STNMTZ_20040201_54.thumb.jpg.058af43f456910a567e5f78d8df8dc00.jpg

banner-awam-temple.jpg.9601f3eb622782bec6d1431d8c90f2ee.jpg

 

Sabaean script:

1702478179_x_Yemen_adaqn_Stela_languageSabaean_BerlinVorderasiatischesMuseumVA1_dasi.humnet.unipi_it.thumb.jpg.b8de707ad9077a3577c6c91ab06f1d68.jpgPanel_Almaqah_Louvre_DAO18.thumb.jpg.ee804b767e41ac36253c7949d162277e.jpg1200px-British_Museum_Yemen_06.thumb.jpg.76f53ffde76d99f241d71dd8393c1558.jpg

 

Sabaean bronze:

2c40ee7b5cb308d66fb53b68a084a1f1.jpg.a44a0cc4eb8f393b446fc176cae07707.jpg2000925865_Yemeniqueen0309sabanews.jpg.e0e32b3a25f66137bc3424da9401e4fb.jpge8edc1a25030b5e382b8de4130634ec9.thumb.jpg.04a6f4222424429e90150c1e4cb11b39.jpgGMN29thr.jpg.054929eb08f4d7f51662e0f7dc3d39cc.jpg

 

 

Libation altar:

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Incense burner 

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Traditional Yemeni architecture, a tradition dating back to the BC period:

6379.jpg.607c022fe1280bf31d8ecbf9534cbd0d.jpg00-shibam-mud-brick-cfile.jpg.e0d9b76d7a9d82f51504f632664f7378.jpgu-g-P4D39J0.jpg.c982a6ca0e514cb3b3ebe952052bcd14.jpgthe-ancient-walled-city-of-thula-dating-back-to-the-himyarite-period-C85YC1.thumb.jpg.c144c09fa8b29935a3e872617dc7d9a0.jpg

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Examples of explicit Sabaean influence in Ethiopia:

A Sabaean altar in a temple to Almaqah, the Sabaean supreme god, in Tgray, Ethiopia. Sabaean inscriptions clearly visible:

1874684208_TigrayYehaAltar.thumb.jpg.bfc6a83a9c2ef38624fbac87d04efb2a.jpg

 

Sabaean inscriptions from the temple at Yeha, Tigray, Ethiopia. Yeha is thought to have been the capital city of the Kingdom of D'mt:

1009066486_Ancient_Blocks_With_Sabaean_Inscriptions_Yeha_Ethiopia_(3146498586).thumb.jpg.e4cb4a5976249bbd7e356c1fe51cabf5.jpg

Edited by Sundiata
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1 hour ago, Diatryma said:

In terms of territory, both of those maps depict the Aksumite empire at it's height during the 6th century AD. The Kingdom of Saba is not known to have ever exerted political influence in East Africa.

The Biblical Kingdom of Sheba is tentatively identified with the Kingdom of Saba, but Ethiopia has a much stronger national narrative claiming to be the seat of the ancient kingdom, and currently possessing the Ark of the Covenant, housed in Axum. Personally, I think the history is too obscured, intertwined and semi-mythical to try to draw absolute conclusions. I remember reading about Sabaean inscriptions from that altar in Ethiopia explicitly mentioning the "red Sabaeans" and the "black Hebrews" essentially living in the same place. The black Hebrews here refers to the Ethiopian Jews (Beta Israel/Falasha), who are thought to have established themselves in Ethiopia around this time. It's all a bit fuzzy..    

Edited by Sundiata
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7 hours ago, Sundiata said:

In terms of territory, both of those maps depict the Aksumite empire at it's height during the 6th century AD. The Kingdom of Saba is not known to have ever exerted political influence in East Africa.

The Biblical Kingdom of Sheba is tentatively identified with the Kingdom of Saba, but Ethiopia has a much stronger national narrative claiming to be the seat of the ancient kingdom, and currently possessing the Ark of the Covenant, housed in Axum. Personally, I think the history is too obscured, intertwined and semi-mythical to try to draw absolute conclusions. I remember reading about Sabaean inscriptions from that altar in Ethiopia explicitly mentioning the "red Sabaeans" and the "black Hebrews" essentially living in the same place. The black Hebrews here refers to the Ethiopian Jews (Beta Israel/Falasha), who are thought to have established themselves in Ethiopia around this time. It's all a bit fuzzy..    

So how look like them?

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5 hours ago, Diatryma said:

So how look like them?

I'm assuming you mean how do the "Black Hebrews" look like?

Keep in mind they shouldn't be conflated with the "Black Hebrew Israelites", an extreme fringe group of Afro Americans that aren't recognized as Jews by the greater Jewish community. The Ethiopian Jews on the other hand are a genuine Afro-Semitic population of an ancient stock, and recognized as such by the world's Jewish community. They're called Beta Israel, but are also referred with the derogative "falasha" or falash mura"  

There's a number of differing theories about how they got there, all quite plausible. There's the tradition (national narrative) that says they come from the Israelite companions of Menelik I, the first Solomonic ruler of Ethiopia, son of Queen Makeda of Sheba and King Solomon. Another tradition claims that they descend from the tribe of Dan escaping various destruction events in ancient Israel. Another tradition states that they descend from a Jewish community at Elephantine on the border of Lower Nubia in South Egypt, who escaped the campaigns of Psamtik I or II, passing through Kush and entering Ethiopia. There was actually a synagogue on Elephantine... Other Jews are said to have been settled on the border of Lower Nubia during the Ptolemaic period as well, said to be allies of Cleopatra, and fled into Kush, and then Ethiopia during the Roman conquest of Egypt. There's also an undeniable relation to the Yemeni Jews. A number of obscure Jewish Kingdoms existed in ancient Ethiopia (see testimony of Eldad the Danite), and at least some of the Ethiopians that converted to Christianity in the 4th century were originally Jewish. Some of the Ethiopian Jews were medieval Christians who converted back to Judaism, so it gets really complicated. They're not homogenous, and they're also closely related to other, Christian Semitic populations of Ethiopia like the Amhara and Tigrinya. After the overthrow of Haile Selassie I, the Ethiopian Jews started facing a lot more persecution and marginalisation under the communist Derg regime, and they emigrated to Israel en masse, during several waves, aided by Israel (Operation Moses and Operation Solomon). Currently more than 130.000 Ethiopian Jews live in Israel as naturalized citizens, virtually the entire population...

Anyway, this is what they look like

Beta Israel, the black Jews of Ethiopia:

Spoiler

1496068708-397457-6-gd-format.jpg.e984980a97574fc1374b2a0774f8426e.jpgbetaisrael007-51b3b8bc4104cb360d766354e3e1504200377b69-s800-c15.jpg.c7f9a82ec163431be94caa25587cd278.jpg1490752455252.jpeg.539a4488f2f685039212f65c3fe3f139.jpegDNA-ETHIOPIANS.thumb.jpg.ad8a7eb08648375544d928390eb47c46.jpg529074332_BETA_ISRAEL_KESSIM_CELEBRATE_SIGD_IN_JERUSALEM_2009.thumb.jpg.f77e5b3e848cf3ca79b24862c8cfc34c.jpgan-overview-of-the-covert-airlifts-of-ethiopian-jews-to-israel.jpg.115513c3981321087af36908fb55d118.jpgFalasha.jpg.c7de62c23aa69b567760c9a8f11ce78e.jpglustig1.jpg.886f8e88c0e86098a7d385e46d2c9dc0.jpgfalasha-high-priest-ethiopia-BHHFKX.thumb.jpg.8156b5ba0abb04e541f5b8b87e262d4d.jpgthefalashaofethiopia.jpg.fcb4af9ae242e2126636e4cd20680831.jpgfalasha640x400.jpg.fd64ff9e6ec78366199fcefec906ddfd.jpgtor.jpg.13a7cf8eed1245fdf0a112db6543378c.jpgwhite-turbaned-ethiopian-jewish-clergy-kessoch-who-originate-from-AR5FP3.thumb.jpg.781363d4b7c19ef003494b4a1b427223.jpg

istockphoto-524426385-612x612.jpg.078fca80d2f0d7e6aa64817fd8430e7a.jpgEthiopie_sefer_Thora.jpg.2dc2892873903bdb085c038d75df6f9f.jpgEthiopian-Jewish-child-thumb-300x258-4815.jpg.b09c67640ba44ebd94a509f110f053d6.jpgShowImage_ashx.jpeg.27fa626ef91d1d1f4eabab5abf13dfb3.jpeg6a00e0097e2f40883301053650d7ea970b-320wi.jpg.5a368caf0779955ede6759ce9edd42d7.jpgos.jpg.7b936bbe7d4f1017e076495cc7a92fe8.jpgDSC_0174-e1377290546973-1024x640.thumb.jpg.e616c749a23909042ce4962f2ca09de2.jpgMI0000178015.jpg.7e0fb7813807f30ae954fa8a72e64a3f.jpgmaxresdefault-1.thumb.jpg.386a94029735ee42f485bebd1f1b9145.jpgV05p328001.jpg.2563d6cb45b41d36f0e9bc179843be72.jpg

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beta_Israel

 

If you're interested in black Jews, there's also the extraordinary claim of Jewish descend from the Lemba people of South Africa and Zimbabwe. Genetic studies actually confirmed Middle Eastern ancestry among a significant portion of the population. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemba_people

Edited by Sundiata
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@Diatryma,

The Sabaean Temple of Barran, near Ma'rib, is colloquially known as the Throne of Bilqis (Bilqis is the Arabic name for the Queen of Sheba). I got a little carried away and modeled a quick tentative reconstruction. 0AD concept art for a new Sabaean faction, in a few years time :P 

2018693247_SabaeantempleofBarranreconstruction2.thumb.jpg.754f1c73603cede194276503986521a7.jpg

Mmmm, Sabaeans...

 

1580034971_SabaeantempleofBarranreconstruction.thumb.jpg.0e1f1033fd3735c91a9b4c3ddf1fb1ac.jpg

 

Spoiler

4ae1dbb4-bfee-4b66-854a-9452a23dd63f.jpg.cf5236b65389af7c8537ea7dd1dc4bd1.jpg

317874985_BarrantempleSabaean.thumb.jpg.fcbe104f54073e2410c6e439301c07e7.jpg

 

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I should really get to work on more serious things... Anyway, a quick concept update: some lazy texturing using Carthage texture pack.

440885377_Barrantempleconcept.thumb.jpg.25e7e364532fe98d8ba08051f23a9239.jpg

One day, my sweet Sabaeans.... One day... 

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