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but do they have to be twice as fast? wouldnt 1.5× or even 1.3× as fast be fast enough? I feel like this would be an unnecessary "unification" of playstyles across different civs. A civ with good defensive options could (if walls, forts, towers werent so bad) secure their eco without needing to keep troops at home and force the enemy cav to take a fight by attacking the enemy base. Then the cav die to normal spearman and no "quick" counter unit is necessary.

Hi @Shafe, welcome to the forums. If you would attach the files as described in the error message people could actually look into it,

More examples of shield walls:

Reinstalled the game twice, and no luck, Vulkan crashes every time when starting a game, OpenGL works fine. Before installing Alpha 27, I had the pre-release of Alpha 27(0.0.27-rc-27645) and Vulkan worked just fine, to confirm, I uninstalled Alpha 27 and reinstalled the pre-release and Vulkan works fine. If it helpful, game was installed on a Acer laptop with a 5700u. This is the message that pops up when the game crashes. Much to our regret we must report the program has encountered an error. Please let us know at https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/issues/ and attach the crashlog.txt and crashlog.dmp files. You may find paths to these files at https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/wiki/GameDataPaths Details: unhandled exception (Integer divide by zero) Location: unknown:0 (?) Call stack: (error while dumping stack: No stack frames found) errno = 0 (No error reported here) OS error = 0 (no error code was set)

As you can see from this thread, a consensus will never happen as for the solutions @real_tabasco_sauce makes the all the balancing PRs that get approved by the team atm. So rly it's almost about convincing him. With current production stats (cost, prod time..) more durable units actually makes the game feel more spamy. This because there are much more situation where both sides can sustain sending troops on the front-line, replacing dying units by new one for a long while. Since melee re-balance, this happens more rarely, as battles tend to play out slightly faster. I'll maintain that it did have a positive impact on the gameplay, also because it put less importance on sniping making other things matter more.

I’ve left it alone so far. Or are you saying it should be lowered? everyone chill out, these aren’t final! I’m setting up some stuff in the community mod. If we spend some time testing seriously, we can figure out what works and what doesn’t.

I like this strategical discussion. It's important to clarify what "we" want before you/we do any changes. Regarding this, my opinion is that more durable and fewer units on the battlefield what makes good RTS. More micro abilities not just Attack move and few target-fire clicks... It seems 0AD is too spamy now.

I believe the best way to balance cavalry is to eliminate the "blending in" or stacking of units on top of each other. In other words, make the unit collision work as it should. This would make it impossible to have a 30 spear cavalry death ball in just one tile. It will also nerf the range advantage that some champion spear cavalry currently has.

I prefer this. We make cav because we want speed. Otherwise, who would do cav when inf is cheaper and more useful as workers? Definitely not. Units die too fast now and we just see people getting vapourised. 2v1 or bad fight = instant death -> more demanding on good ally and pocket -> less tolerance and more toxicity -> more DoctorOrgans behaviour + exclusion of newer players @real_tabasco_sauce please reconsider the bonus on spear cav against other cavs. The issue is, most civs don't have spear cav. So as soon as someone makes a dozen spear cav, these civs Gaul, Brits, Athen, Maury, Sele are banned from using cav (unless they spam spear champs in P3). Is this what we want? Suggestion: due to the special nature of spear cav, we should give every civ a counter unit, e.g. fanatic, or just give every civ a spear cav option.

Of course they are. I just found it funny how the AI can recommend even a semblance of strategy for 0 A.D, and lay it out in phases.

Because after melee re-balance, melees were killing other melees faster. For spear inf vs cav, this is even more visible because of this damage multiplier. But note : The melee re-balance didn't change relative strengths* of inf spears vs cavs, it just made fights happens faster So the following reduction of inf counter was a net nerf, which tipped off the balance in favor of melee cav * However in army with mixed compositions, inf spears became more impactful as they were before since the % of dps dealt by them was increased. Now that we identified the above, we can discuss if units dying faster is desirable, and if not, how to mitigate it without inadvertently breaking unit balance. About that my take on this is that it's not bad to have faster paced slaughters when a player miss-micro cavalry, as cavalry are already pretty hard to catch: It seems preferable to keep cavalry stats and mobility high but not too fail safe Then the opposite : make cavalry more normalized with infantry (slower movement, lower stats...)

okay then, why was it reduced in the first place from 3x?

don't know why you'd say that. Compared to last year, the model has improved and also apparently acquired some understandment of the game, but still the strict majority of the recommendations given in that answer are trash.

@wraitiiNothing big, but, maybe it is time to change the title of this threat? (I'd suggest to remove reference to A26 as people may believe this is outdated which is not true at all)

This could be a great solution to this bug/exploit:

https://gitea.wildfiregames.com/0ad/0ad/issues/7979 maybe?

Basically I think what would be nice is to have cavs used for their mobility, and not a unit that will always be the best suited in all situations as main core troop. To keep melee cav skirmishing still possible they need to have mobility, but being less effective then infantry to fight as front-lines. Restoring x2 spear cav vs cav would also make them a good choice when needing to counter ranged cavs. Strong counters is a easy way to make units more balanced overall because one player can... counter... any unit "abused" by it's opponent.

It's x3 from existing x2.5. x3 inf polearms vs cav and x2 spear cav vs cavs were the a26 values and cavs, especially champ cavs, where still op, just not as much as now.

I'd definitely like to test this with enough players, shame most don't use mods

yes, I think 3x might be overkill too, but we gotta test first haha

@Lopess do you have any updates on the boats? I think just the bigger arrow ship should get some extra features, like shields and a sail. I'll see if I can get an emblem done.

UPDATE: Version 0.8.2 - The price update interval on the Market was increased from 7 to 10 seconds. - Barter has 10 times less influence on the change of prices for resources. Thus, reverse barter deals aimed at raising or lowering prices will be unprofitable for the player. At the same time, players have the opportunity to: 1. make highly efficient barters during price jumps. 2. barter resources on roughly equal terms with other players. Examples of prices at the start of 2 games