Introducing the Official community mod for Alpha 26

[Adeimantos]

Increasing melee attack and reducing armor would make infantry more like Age of Empires. It would also make them better against siege (good), and more vulnerable to range cav (and jav cav are OP already). Reducing javelin dps should happen first. I'd like melee infantry to include in some tanky units and some with higher attack lower armor.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

I am making a list of simple community mod shortcomings that would need to be addressed if/when it is implemented in a27.

• Roman Civilization Overview (perhaps specific technologies) should mention ability of rank 3 melee infantry to become centurions, should also be listed on Spearmen and Swordsmen tooltip for romans.
• Carthage team bonus should say "infantry mercenaries..." instead of "Mercenaries -50% train time"

if you have anything else to add, mention it.

[chrstgtr]

6 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

I am making a list of simple community mod shortcomings that would need to be addressed if/when it is implemented in a27.

• Roman Civilization Overview (perhaps specific technologies) should mention ability of rank 3 melee infantry to become centurions, should also be listed on Spearmen and Swordsmen tooltip for romans.
• Carthage team bonus should say "infantry mercenaries..." instead of "Mercenaries -50% train time"

if you have anything else to add, mention it.

Do we have any place to actually discuss whether the items from the community mod should be implemented into a27?

I think everything should get in. I would be in favor of slight tweaks to the CC radius expansion to make it smaller and making centurions more available somehow (still haven't seen one used). 

[Fabius]

10 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

I am making a list of simple community mod shortcomings that would need to be addressed if/when it is implemented in a27.

• Roman Civilization Overview (perhaps specific technologies) should mention ability of rank 3 melee infantry to become centurions, should also be listed on Spearmen and Swordsmen tooltip for romans.
• Carthage team bonus should say "infantry mercenaries..." instead of "Mercenaries -50% train time"

if you have anything else to add, mention it.

I have a question, was it intentional that melee cavalry get buffed by centurions? Cause that does juice Consular up even more lol

[chrstgtr]

38 minutes ago, Fabius said:

I have a question, was it intentional that melee cavalry get buffed by centurions? Cause that does juice Consular up even more lol

I don’t know the answer, but something like centurions will amplify any underlying imbalances. As a way forward, we shouldn’t carve those imbalances out. Instead we should just fix whatever issues exist underneath. Otherwise, it gets really complicated and logically inconsistent. With that said, I welcome changes to champ Roman cav, which, in my opinion, is the best unit in the game 

Edited December 27, 2022 by chrstgtr

[real_tabasco_sauce]

This is true @Fabius, however the two units are rarely achievable together. Even when you can get both units in a fight, the different mobility of the consular bodyguards and the centurions makes them fairly incompatible.

The centurions have a small aura radius, so you would have to keep the consular bodyguards nearby. Also, all the roman heroes are mounted and you would surely rather have them with your consulars than with your smaller CS army (assuming you have some CS at home on resources), so in that case it would be harder to acquire a centurion.

So, thankfully, the design doesn't particularly lend itself to use with consulars.

One thing that could be very strong currently, and I have not seen anyone try this, would be to combine CS swordsmen with champion swordsmen to try and get centurions. The melee champions then would be absolutely a force to be reckoned with, probably the strongest in the game.

@chrstgtr feel free to try it

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

@chrstgtr in regards to the difficulty getting rank 3 units for centurions. A few ways to do it come to mind: winning a sniping battle since your melee will survive longer, garrisoning in barracks (you only need 8), or training rank 2 from army camp. I agree there is a range between there being some planning and skill involved to get centurions and them being too hard to bother getting. I am not sure where the current system falls on that range to be honest.

real tabasco actually managed to get them a few time and he seemed to find some success. I have not been playing as much since my main computer can't work with the new TLS encryption problem, but I would certainly also give them a shot as well.

Han are a great civ when their crossbows can snipe, because if they take out your ranged units they can win a fight. I think a great use case for these centurions would be to focus on CS swordsmen in army mass and upgrade choices, and as they try to snipe your ranged units your swords would live long enough to reach rank 3, upgrade to centurions and then sway the fight from there. Rome also has a +1 armor hero that can help melee infantry live long enough to reach rank 3.

@real_tabasco_sauce I would recommend adding an xp trickle to units garrisoned in the roman army camp, equal to barracks rate.

[chrstgtr]

35 minutes ago, BreakfastBurrito_007 said:

@chrstgtr in regards to the difficulty getting rank 3 units for centurions. A few ways to do it come to mind: winning a sniping battle since your melee will survive longer, garrisoning in barracks (you only need 8), or training rank 2 from army camp. I agree there is a range between there being some planning and skill involved to get centurions and them being too hard to bother getting. I am not sure where the current system falls on that range to be honest.

real tabasco actually managed to get them a few time and he seemed to find some success. I have not been playing as much since my main computer can't work with the new TLS encryption problem, but I would certainly also give them a shot as well.

Han are a great civ when their crossbows can snipe, because if they take out your ranged units they can win a fight. I think a great use case for these centurions would be to focus on CS swordsmen in army mass and upgrade choices, and as they try to snipe your ranged units your swords would live long enough to reach rank 3, upgrade to centurions and then sway the fight from there. Rome also has a +1 armor hero that can help melee infantry live long enough to reach rank 3.

@real_tabasco_sauce I would recommend adding an xp trickle to units garrisoned in the roman army camp, equal to barracks rate.

I just haven't seen them, which makes me concerned that they are virtually unattainable. But you're right that barrack garrisoning may be a way to do it. 

I wouldn't mind an xp trickle, which would help make centurions more attainable. To be honest, I miss how camps used to also heal garrisoned units, but I already think that camps are very strong as p2 buildings. 

[binobo]

Can we make it so champ crossbowmen have 50 pierce damage? I think there should be a chance that champ crossbowmen instantly kill an unarmored ranged unit. As of right now, champion crossbowmen are too weak relative to other champs. 

[Gurken Khan]

Just wanted to throw in here that my spearmen are the first to die. Or the only, actually. So if their survivability is further reduced, I probably won't even take them along (again).

[Stan`]

@vv221 has started looking into porting patch today. You can talk to him on IRC.

[vv221]

3 hours ago, Stan` said:

@vv221 has started looking into porting patch today. You can talk to him on IRC.

The process is much easier than what I expected, so I plan to import all patches from the community mod in the coming days.

[Stan`]

To all that contributed, please state how you'd like to be credited in the balancing credits. Options are full name, nickname, or both.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Macedonians

"Naval Arms Race"

• Unlock the Hexeres heavy warship for Macedon

Edited January 6, 2023 by wowgetoffyourcellphone

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Centurions added to the game for the Romans: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/changeset/27400

 

[Dizaka]

5 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Centurions added to the game for the Romans: https://trac.wildfiregames.com/changeset/27400

 

I was going to say type but OH that is cool.  You can promote either of spearmen or swordsmen.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

26 minutes ago, Dizaka said:

I was going to say type but OH that is cool.  You can promote either of spearmen or swordsmen.

You actually already can in the community mod

[real_tabasco_sauce]

On 05/01/2023 at 7:16 AM, Stan` said:

To all that contributed, please state how you'd like to be credited in the balancing credits. Options are full name, nickname, or both.

@real_tabasco_sauce

[Dizaka]

2 minutes ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

You actually already can in the community mod

Oh wow, it's hidden well lol.  Didn't see it at first glance.  Will look for it.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

7 minutes ago, Dizaka said:

Oh wow, it's hidden well lol.  Didn't see it at first glance.  Will look for it.

yeah, one of the improvements in the aforementioned patch is that all spearmen and swordsmen will have a tooltip explaining that rank 3 units can be promoted to centurions.

This way you can see this information when you actually go to train them.

[Gurken Khan]

Since the Han have Archery Training at the stables I assume horse archers also profit from it. Maybe add "and Cavalry Archers" to the descritption to clarify?

[borg-]

It would be interesting to have a rank 2 upgrade only for melee inf. They are weakeat units in game for a long time, so i think that helps balance things out.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

52 minutes ago, borg- said:

It would be interesting to have a rank 2 upgrade only for melee inf. They are weakeat units in game for a long time, so i think that helps balance things out.

I think this would partially invalidate the value of infantry mercenaries.

I would rather melee inf be more impactful in the first place (not just meatshield, but actually dealing damage). I have an idea for this and I will make a MR for it in the a27 community mod.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

On 29/12/2022 at 3:34 PM, Gurken Khan said:

Just wanted to throw in here that my spearmen are the first to die. Or the only, actually. So if their survivability is further reduced, I probably won't even take them along (again).

Well consider this: since ranged units account for between 70 to 95 percent of the damage from a given army, and they target the closest unit by default, then without any sniping, melee units will always die first even if they have 100 pierce armor.

If melee units dealt more damage, their survival would now depend on both the enemy melee units as well as ranged units.

Should a player invest in some stronger melee units and get melee upgrades, their more rapid success against the weaker enemy melee units will force the exposed ranged units to retreat.

So basically the rationale is this: give melee units a much improved share of impact in terms of determining the outcome of a fight, and balance them accordingly by reducing the armor a little.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

https://code.wildfiregames.com/D4877

the rest of the community mod features.