Introducing the Official community mod for Alpha 26

[alre]

well that escalated quickly

[real_tabasco_sauce]

4 hours ago, Fabius said:

Seems to me the only option will be to override the player base for their own good.

no, this is a community mod. The community has spoken on 5 of the MR's and these are the ones that should be added.

I will revise the upgrades and see if they are of interest later.

[Fabius]

So when do we call an end to the voting and move into the consolidation phase?  

[chrstgtr]

8 minutes ago, Fabius said:

So when do we call an end to the voting and move into the consolidation phase?  

No votes the last few days. And unless there is a surge of votes, the results won’t change. I think we have what we have and might as well start testing 

[Stan`]

I've locked the poll. It seems the PR aren't rebased correctly so I might have to do some things manually...

I closed the disagreed upon ones.

[Adeimantos]

On 11/12/2022 at 10:47 PM, chrstgtr said:

I think I voted for it, but I fear we are slipping into just making them spears. I don't have any good suggestions here. Maybe increasing attack range, like your 23 unit upgrade patch, would keep them differentiated and then you could decrease armor or something too to keep them from being OP

I think pikemen should be unique by being really strong at melee but weak against range. Attack similar to spearmen, but 8 hack armor and 4 pierce armor. Also if crush gets reworked they should have higher crush armor than most units, so they'd be good against elephants and axe or mace units.

[Adeimantos]

2 hours ago, Stan` said:

I've locked the poll. It seems the PR aren't rebased correctly so I might have to do some things manually...

I closed the disagreed upon ones.

Looks like i just missed voting. I would have voted yes on all the ones that are close.

[Adeimantos]

On 11/12/2022 at 1:47 AM, real_tabasco_sauce said:

If you want a better look at the upgrades (all visible in the tech tree), here is the branch made into a mod:

unit_upgrades.zip 1 MB · 3 downloads

I like the idea of these upgrades, haven't decided how many of them i like individually. Maybe try a commit with one upgrade for each unit instead of two, just pick the better one of each pair? Maybe a poll asking how people like each upgrade individually would be nice.

[real_tabasco_sauce]

I am taking suggestions, like I removed projectile velocity from the upgrades since this is not visible to players and should be a constant.

I am considering allowing them to affect mercenaries as well.

[Stan`]

Projectile velocity also affects dancing too.

[chrstgtr]

1 hour ago, Stan` said:

Projectile velocity also affects dancing too.

Sure. Set it at a constant, though. If dancing is bad (I agree, it is) then set it at a level than makes dancing ineffective. You shouldn’t have to do an upgrade to get rid of something that shouldn’t exist.

Velocity is otherwise a proxy for accuracy (I.e., spread), which has its own, more direct variable. I think that’s what @real_tabasco_sauce was really aiming for too  

FWIW, dancing has been largely eliminated through a series of changes in recent alphas. Imo, that’s one of the best things that came out of a24. 
 

Edit: I know you’re not advocating here one way or the other, Stan. But I just want to clarify for everyone else

Edited December 16, 2022 by chrstgtr

[BreakfastBurrito_007]

As far as I am aware, the last remaining dancing form is hero based, and even it can be avoided at times by using alt/option to individually task your ranged units.

[Stan`]

Last version is live:

- Add a new aura to Alexander that does: "Enemy Soldiers, Structures -10% attack damage". Change Aura1 to "Soldiers +10% attack damage, +15% movement speed." and aura 2 to ""Enemy Civic Centres −50% capture points garrisoned regeneration rate."
- Add centurions to the romans (100 food, 50 metal) with a limit of 8 with an aura "Melee Soldiers +10% attack damage and all soldiers -25% experience points for promotion.""
- Change roman army camp to 400 wood 150 stone (vs 500 wood 100 stone 100 metal) Reduce health to 1750 (vs 2250) move it to town phase
- Add a farming tech to seleucids ("Farms -25% wood cost and -75% build time.)
- Increase by 15% Melee and Melee Champion cavalry walk speed

 

[real_tabasco_sauce]

version 4 changelog: community_mod_changelog.txt

#This is a written changelog for additional merges to each version of the 
community mod. If you would like to review the exact details on #each 
merge, visit this link: 
https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests?scope=all&state=merged

-0.26.1-
!1  Set up gitlab with continuous integration to the mod.
-0.26.2-
!2  Han farming technologies (village and city phase) fixed.
!6  Regicide mode infinite loop from enabling hero garrison fixed.
-0.26.3-
!4  Move tier 3 blacksmith technologies to the town phase.
!5  Healers cost 100 food 25 metal, cheaper temple technologies.
!8  Themistocles now provides a wall discount as well as a naval buff, 
Pericles provides technology discount and soldiers in his aura do not give 
loot.
!10 Civic centers and colonies decreased cost, decreased territory 
expansion with each age.
!11 Axe cavalry buff to hack damage.
!12 Change to ptol civ bonus: Ptolemies houses, storehouses, farmsteads 
+50% build time and -40% capture points.
!13 Team Bonuses: Athens get CC technologies -30% cost, -50% research 
time, Seleucids get CC decreased build time too, Persians get cheaper 
barracks and stables, Carthage gets -50% mercenary infantry train time.
-0.26.4-
!26 Add a new aura to Alexander that does: "Enemy Soldiers, Structures -10% attack damage". Change Aura1 to "Soldiers +10% attack damage, +15% movement speed." and aura 2 to ""Enemy Civic Centres −50% capture points garrisoned regeneration rate."
!27 Add centurions to the romans (100 food, 50 metal) with a limit of 8 with an aura "Melee Soldiers +10% attack damage and all soldiers -25% experience points for promotion.""
!17 Change roman army camp to 400 wood 150 stone (vs 500 wood 100 stone 100 metal) Reduce health to 1750 (vs 2250) move it to town phase
!24 Add a farming civ bonus to Seleucids ("Farms -25% wood cost and -75% build time.) 
!19 Increase by 15% Melee and Melee Champion cavalry acceleration

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

6 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

!26 (...)  aura 2 to ""Enemy Civic Centres −50% capture points garrisoned regeneration rate."

This one seems a bit... not sure of the word... procedural? Obscure? Odd? The other stuff looks alright though.

[BeTe]

17 hours ago, real_tabasco_sauce said:

version 4 changelog: community_mod_changelog.txt

#This is a written changelog for additional merges to each version of the 
community mod. If you would like to review the exact details on #each 
merge, visit this link: 
https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests?scope=all&state=merged

-0.26.1-
!1  Set up gitlab with continuous integration to the mod.
-0.26.2-
!2  Han farming technologies (village and city phase) fixed.
!6  Regicide mode infinite loop from enabling hero garrison fixed.
-0.26.3-
!4  Move tier 3 blacksmith technologies to the town phase.
!5  Healers cost 100 food 25 metal, cheaper temple technologies.
!8  Themistocles now provides a wall discount as well as a naval buff, 
Pericles provides technology discount and soldiers in his aura do not give 
loot.
!10 Civic centers and colonies decreased cost, decreased territory 
expansion with each age.
!11 Axe cavalry buff to hack damage.
!12 Change to ptol civ bonus: Ptolemies houses, storehouses, farmsteads 
+50% build time and -40% capture points.
!13 Team Bonuses: Athens get CC technologies -30% cost, -50% research 
time, Seleucids get CC decreased build time too, Persians get cheaper 
barracks and stables, Carthage gets -50% mercenary infantry train time.
-0.26.4-
!26 Add a new aura to Alexander that does: "Enemy Soldiers, Structures -10% attack damage". Change Aura1 to "Soldiers +10% attack damage, +15% movement speed." and aura 2 to ""Enemy Civic Centres −50% capture points garrisoned regeneration rate."
!27 Add centurions to the romans (100 food, 50 metal) with a limit of 8 with an aura "Melee Soldiers +10% attack damage and all soldiers -25% experience points for promotion.""
!17 Change roman army camp to 400 wood 150 stone (vs 500 wood 100 stone 100 metal) Reduce health to 1750 (vs 2250) move it to town phase
!24 Add a farming civ bonus to Seleucids ("Farms -25% wood cost and -75% build time.) 
!19 Increase by 15% Melee and Melee Champion cavalry acceleration

Is there a central place for this so in the future if I want to find it, I don't have to dig on the Forum?

[Stan`]

3 hours ago, BeTe said:

Is there a central place for this so in the future if I want to find it, I don't have to dig on the Forum?

The mod changelog on 0ad.mod.io ?

[hyperion]

15 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

This one seems a bit... not sure of the word... procedural? Obscure? Odd? The other stuff looks alright though.

Agreed, without looking at the code this is very hard to parse. Also increasing capture attack would be similar in effect and imho more natural.

[Philip the Swaggerless]

20 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

This one seems a bit... not sure of the word... procedural? Obscure? Odd? The other stuff looks alright though

This was one of his existing auras, not a new one.  Having done some tests, it is slightly more effective against CCs than the Roman hero (Scipio) that gives plus 2 capture attack to all units.

I agree it is obscure in that the regeneration rate stat is not even visible.  This never bothered me much though, I just knew it meant he was good at capturing things.  Honestly,  I like the uniqueness of it. 

The idea, I assume, is that since Alexander captured so much territory in such a short amount of time he should be really good at capturing CC's. I agree with this. 

The advantage of the Roman hero is that he also captures non cc buildings very quickly, whereas Alexander doesn't have any special effect on them.

In adding the new Alexander auras I was trying not to go too crazy and make him too strong. Depending on how strong he is in practice, I could be open to supporting one of the below adjustments: 

Remove current CC Aura, and add capture attack bonus equal to our greater than the Roman Hero's (+2).  It could be added to his new Rapid Conquest Aura. Or,

Change current capture regeneration rate debuff Aura to effect all buildings, not just CC.

 

 

 

[BeTe]

On 17/12/2022 at 4:44 PM, Stan` said:

The mod changelog on 0ad.mod.io ?

Thx. I also meant, if people who are responsible, could keep it in 1 place and share link instead of copying changes around... It would be easier for all?

[Outis]

On 15/12/2022 at 5:56 PM, Stan` said:

I've locked the poll. It seems the PR aren't rebased correctly so I might have to do some things manually...

I closed the disagreed upon ones.

I wanted to vote after finishing reading the while thread and i missed my chance to exercise my vote . Can someone mention what proposals were accepted and what was disagreed and closed?

[Stan`]

21 minutes ago, Outis said:

I wanted to vote after finishing reading the while thread and i missed my chance to exercise my vote . Can someone mention what proposals were accepted and what was disagreed and closed?

See https://mod.io/g/0ad/m/community-mod on the left side there is the changelog

[Outis]

17 minutes ago, Stan` said:

See https://mod.io/g/0ad/m/community-mod on the left side there is the changelog

Thank you very much . Is there a way to see the disagreed and closed ones?

[real_tabasco_sauce]

1 hour ago, Outis said:

Thank you very much . Is there a way to see the disagreed and closed ones?

merged: https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests?scope=all&state=merged

closed: https://gitlab.com/0ad/0ad-community-mod-a26/-/merge_requests?scope=all&state=closed

[binobo]

As of now, I think there are specific troops that are too strong. That is the sword mercenary cavalry and the roman consular bodyguards. The problem is that they are too tank like. They need either/or a health reduction or changes to armor. Personally I think an overall cav health reduction would be great but since that is rather controversial, I think both units should receive a -1 hack resistance reduction and a -2 pierce resistance reduction from their current states. I think it's great that they can shred through ranged infantry/cav but they should be more vulnerable when intentionally targeted. champ crossbowman comically struggle to kill a bodyguard.

Especially for Rome, the romans were not known for their cavalry as their primary fighting force. I think a fun technology would be to reduce the swordsman training time to 7 seconds but increase cavalry training time by 25%. Or it could just be  a technology that trains all infantry to 8 seconds. Just an idea but it would lead to more infantry focused attacks.

Also, I think that the roman army camp should have reduced build time to 200 seconds. If combined with further nerfs to hack damage (10 instead of 15), arrows to 10 (instead of 15), and possibly reduced health to 1500 (instead of 1750, however I think further reducing health should result in faster build time so maybe 1500 for 180 seconds?). It's also possible to make it a technology instead of an inherent ability to reduce costs and/or build time of a roman army camp. 

I think this would make the camp viable and keep balance. I don't see a change in gameplay happening if the camps aren't easily put up especially in contested environments. It would motivate using infantry so they could build.

Although camps can produce promoted infantry they are woefully inadequate to replenish any army. Camps were used to sustain/prepare for an offensive and protect from cavalry raids and ambush attacks. Therefore my idea behind the camp changes should highlight offensive abilities and have limited defensive ones. A camp should not be a powerful defensive position but rather a place that troops can quickly garrison and await reinforcements.