With stronghold team placement, distance to map border may need increasing

[andy5995]

Just chatting with @Palaiologos, he's suggests the distance from the group to the map border may need to be increased. He tested using a patch (on Mainland), but the stronghold placement is currently available with Frontier and Ambush on a25.

 

Anyone else ever had a problem with the distance?

[Palaiologos]

1 hour ago, andy5995 said:

distance from the group to the map border may need to be increased

Correct, when testing the stronghold placement option, the mapgen(?) seems to place the teams at different distances (as shown in the provided mini-map) even though both game instances were run on medium map size.  The thinking is that the player that would be positioned along the map border would be disadvantaged compared to the other positions.  @Jammyjamjamman believes it has something to do with the randomness of math calculations?  Not quite sure... Also, ran into an error after enabling the mod and restarting the game and entering into mod selection.

[andy5995]

Some extra info: Mainland TG in community maps is using the stronghold code that's currently in a25. Me and Jammy haven't modified it, just appropriating it. Only Frontier and Ambush have the stronghold option in a25 (that I know of).

[andy5995]

I did some checking with unmodified Frontier and Ambush from A25. Looks like sometimes the bases might wind up on on the border

Results:

Frontier 4v4 Medium setup - ample space between player and border

Ambush 4v4 Medium setup - ample space between player and border

Frontier 4v4 Medium (2nd try) - player on border (see screenshot below)

 

@Stan`Do you think a ticket should be created for modifying how stronghold team placement is done?

 

 

@Palaiologos

On 17/10/2021 at 8:28 PM, Palaiologos said:

Also, ran into an error after enabling the mod and restarting the game and entering into mod selection.

I created a ticket for that.

[Stan`]

3 hours ago, andy5995 said:

Do you think a ticket should be created for modifying how stronghold team placement is done?

I don't know is the current way of doing things an issue?

[maroder]

On 18/10/2021 at 3:28 AM, Palaiologos said:

The thinking is that the player that would be positioned along the map border would be disadvantaged compared to the other positions

Sure, but on the other side you have the player being closest to the enemy which is also an disadvantage.

And since its an equal disadvantage between the two teams I think it's alright. (But I also don't feel that strongly about it)

[Lion.Kanzen]

19 minutes ago, maroder said:

Sure, but on the other side you have the player being closest to the enemy which is also an disadvantage.

And since its an equal disadvantage between the two teams I think it's alright. (But I also don't feel that strongly about it)

What if they could share the same territory by alliance?

I mean...

Who can build the majority of structures in allied territory?

[maroder]

35 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

What if they could share the same territory by alliance?

I mean...

Who can build the majority of structures in allied territory?

a bit too complicated to do this just for one map I guess

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

18 minutes ago, maroder said:

a bit too complicated to do this just for one map I guess

Indeed, I think this should just be a match option for all maps ("Shared Territory").

[Lion.Kanzen]

25 minutes ago, maroder said:

a bit too complicated to do this just for one map I guess

yes, Could be part of the advanced diplomacy settings.

[Planned]

[alre]

2 hours ago, Stan` said:

I don't know is the current way of doing things an issue?

I think it is. Currently the back player has no territory gain in p2/3, and may easily have no access to any woodlines. The center player may have little territory too, but at least is having more fun.

Polygon placement (as in Kerala) may be a good alternative. Or maybe polygon placement, but with CCs closer, as you would suppose a stronghold is.

[Palaiologos]

12 hours ago, maroder said:

Sure, but on the other side you have the player being closest to the enemy which is also an disadvantage.

And since its an equal disadvantage between the two teams I think it's alright. (But I also don't feel that strongly about it)

 

10 hours ago, alre said:

Currently the back player has no territory gain in p2/3, and may easily have no access to any woodlines. The center player may have little territory too, but at least is having more fun.

Right, back player wouldn't make p2 to even establish a market given the amount of wood. I'm fine with there being disadvantages either way as well. Merely wanted to point out the potential problem with that specific mapgen/option since it caters towards mainlanders. Think the unknown/random land map option also produces the kerala setup? These are nice options to have in the game. Breaks up the same ole mainland, mainland, mainland ad nauseam positions/strategies. Included the "Besides Ally" with 4 & "Stronghold" with 3 teammates.

[alre]

14 minutes ago, Palaiologos said:

Think the unknown/random land map option also produces the kerala setup?

for what I know it places 8 CCs in a totally random fashion, and then, if you selected the "random group" option, it assignes them to players so that allies are not mixed with enemies. Red Sea also works like this.

I've played various matches in A25 in Frontier map with various bioms, and people are always complaining there is not enough wood, and it's true, there is much less wood in the new bioms than before. Even though Frontier is a cool map, I'm not playing it anymore for this reason.

[andy5995]

54 minutes ago, Palaiologos said:

 

positions/strategies. Included the "Besides Ally" with 4 & "Stronghold" with 3 teammates.

And for those who aren't familiar with the "Beside Allies" placement yet, @Palaiologosis displaying that in the 3 examples on the left side of this graphic. It's available using the Mainland TG map from the Community Maps 2 mod, and submitted as a patch for a26 in D4303

 

So if you like the new "Beside Allies" placement, please let the devs know in this post or on the patch itself.

[Lion.Kanzen]

There may be a random generation, I like surprises, even if I lose.

[andy5995]

1 hour ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

There may be a random generation, I like surprises, even if I lose.

D4303 and the Mainland TG map I mentioned includes a "random" team placement option that Frontier and Ambush has as an option now.

[nani]

On 18/10/2021 at 3:28 AM, Palaiologos said:

Correct, when testing the stronghold placement option, the mapgen(?) seems to place the teams at different distances (as shown in the provided mini-map) even though both game instances were run on medium map size.  The thinking is that the player that would be positioned along the map border would be disadvantaged compared to the other positions.  @Jammyjamjamman believes it has something to do with the randomness of math calculations?  Not quite sure... Also, ran into an error after enabling the mod and restarting the game and entering into mod selection.

FXAA missing, check what shader configuration file is calling that.

[Silier]

On 18/10/2021 at 3:28 AM, Palaiologos said:

Correct, when testing the stronghold placement option, the mapgen(?) seems to place the teams at different distances (as shown in the provided mini-map) even though both game instances were run on medium map size.  The thinking is that the player that would be positioned along the map border would be disadvantaged compared to the other positions.  @Jammyjamjamman believes it has something to do with the randomness of math calculations?  Not quite sure... Also, ran into an error after enabling the mod and restarting the game and entering into mod selection.

Hi,

As you can see you have enabled some mods, which cannot be found by the engine (red ones).

As engine disables all mods in this case and runs only on minimum, there is known issue which probably originates in the fact that restarting game from the code does not clean everything as it should so some parts still try to use files from public mod, which is disabled at that point.

[Palaiologos]

On 07/11/2021 at 7:22 PM, Silier said:

enabled some mods, which cannot be found by the engine (red ones)

 

On 07/11/2021 at 7:22 PM, Silier said:

engine disables all mods in this case and runs only on minimum, there is known issue which probably originates in the fact that restarting game from the code does not clean everything as it should

Hey, would there be any relevance between that specific error and or any problems related to mod incompatibilities while participating in lobby games with mods? @andy5995 suggested whilst troubleshooting community maps issues to clear 0ad cache and since doing so I have not had encountered this "fxaa" error with that mod enabled at restart...