BoredRusher Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 Hi, I write with a little anger, hmm, a lot even and I think that it will be worth me a ban but as long as I do ... First of all, take a look at my last game, yes my last if nothing is done to change things. Files are in attachments. Now tell me, tell me honestly if that, that is 0ad. For my part, I can hardly recognize this game I loved so much, this game which reached such a level that it became a benchmark in the genre. Now, speaking to the developers, I just want to ask you why. Why such a rushed release ? I have no doubt that you are working hard to fix the bugs that are going to be submitted daily, but so many changes and so sudden are not the best. I also know how to count on your listening to the community to direct you in your works when you do not know which direction to take. I will not list here everything that is wrong with this release but I trust that the cries of the players will be heard and that the game-play will be quickly restored. 0ad is a long term dream so please, please, make it great again and remember that Quote Quality > Quantity Expand #Make0adGreatAgain commands.txtFetching info... metadata.jsonFetching info... 4 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grapjas Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 To say this release has been rushed is a little ridiculous on it's own to be honest. 4 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 Participate in the debates about the alpha 25 gameplay, if you have well-founded and specific ideas aimed at improving the game you will surely be heard. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 On 09/03/2021 at 8:31 PM, BoredRusher said: Now, speaking to the developers, I just want to ask you why. Why such a rushed release ? #Make0adGreatAgain Expand It took us three years to launch. Before it only took 4 or 3 months. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfinn the Shallow Minded Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 On 09/03/2021 at 8:31 PM, BoredRusher said: Now tell me, tell me honestly if that, that is 0ad. Expand You clearly have a lot of emotional investment in the game and have grown comfortable with the previous alpha. That makes sense, but I would point out that 0 AD is a collectively developed game. There are a lot of things I dislike about the current iteration, and if I were to take dictatorial control over the game, it would veer in a radically different direction. Luckily some of my opinions have made an impact, and yours can as well. That said, while I like many of the changes introduced, many other people like yourself are disillusioned with the current alpha so you're not alone. You yourself said that you do not wish to nitpick over the problems. Would you mind explaining some of the things you miss from the previous alpha? I doubt I'll agree with any of your points, but I would like to better understand where you are coming from. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoredRusher Posted March 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 (edited) On 09/03/2021 at 8:43 PM, Grapjas said: To say this release has been rushed is a little ridiculous on it's own to be honest. Expand I agree but the last days of the release have been rushed and I think we agree on that too. On 09/03/2021 at 8:48 PM, Lopess said: Participate in the debates about the alpha 25 gameplay, if you have well-founded and specific ideas aimed at improving the game you will surely be heard. Expand I will do for sure ! On 09/03/2021 at 8:56 PM, Lion.Kanzen said: It took us three years to launch. Before it only took 4 or 3 months. Expand The last days of the release have been rushed, right ? On 09/03/2021 at 9:02 PM, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said: You clearly have a lot of emotional investment in the game and have grown comfortable with the previous alpha. That makes sense, but I would point out that 0 AD is a collectively developed game. There are a lot of things I dislike about the current iteration, and if I were to take dictatorial control over the game, it would veer in a radically different direction. Luckily some of my opinions have made an impact, and yours can as well. That said, while I like many of the changes introduced, many other people like yourself are disillusioned with the current alpha so you're not alone. You yourself said that you do not wish to nitpick over the problems. Would you mind explaining some of the things you miss from the previous alpha? I doubt I'll agree with any of your points, but I would like to better understand where you are coming from. Expand Thank you for your perspective. Ok, to take a bit in the details, I think the game-play is broken (if you take a look at that replay, you will understand everything !). But here is a non exhaustive list (and sorry my language may be brutal): - Slingers were op in a23we complained then make archers op - Giving all the factions rams is abusive is my opinion as it reduces the originality of each faction - Pathfinding has serious issues now (probably due to snapping addition) and those issues are the most seen with rams and on nuits target change - Resources are not balanced Those simple facts broke whole the gameplay in my humble opinion. EDIT : the most important ! UNITS STATE MACHINE IS BROKEN Edited March 9, 2021 by BoredRusher 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoredRusher Posted March 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 And of course I can simply congratulate the development team for all the great changes made. Those changes include : - Lot better graphisms - Better options - Better GUI - Better translations - Even a Better balance and global pathfinding 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoredRusher Posted March 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 About my edit : Units behaviour, I don't know what happened to it. You will see for example soldiers be capturing buildings on the battle field, or try to target unsuccessfully a group of archers with skirmirshers when an elephant is in between... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Genava55 Posted March 9, 2021 Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 On 09/03/2021 at 9:32 PM, BoredRusher said: And of course I can simply congratulate the development team for all the great changes made. Those changes include : - Lot better graphisms - Better options - Better GUI - Better translations - Even a Better balance and global pathfinding Expand Thank you for highlighting also the benefits. This is will be much appreciated to all the people that worked hard. On 09/03/2021 at 9:29 PM, BoredRusher said: The last days of the release have been rushed, right ? Expand Actually I can certify to you that we discussed the balance for MONTHS. We had a private discussion on the topic since december 2019: 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoredRusher Posted March 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 9, 2021 On 09/03/2021 at 10:01 PM, Genava55 said: Thank you for highlighting also the benefits. This is will be much appreciated to all the people that worked hard. Actually I can certify to you that we discussed the balance for MONTHS. We had a private discussion on the topic since december 2019: Expand Balance is good and you are right. But I am talking more in terms of gameplay and game experience/feeling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silier Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 On 09/03/2021 at 9:29 PM, BoredRusher said: I agree but the last days of the release have been rushed and I think we agree on that too Expand could you please be specific what period do you refer to as last days? there have been almost month not introducing new things, just fixing crtical bugs and fixing balance based on players feedback from playing svn, which mostly was introduced by players requests in the first place. On 09/03/2021 at 9:29 PM, BoredRusher said: Expand On 09/03/2021 at 9:29 PM, BoredRusher said: UNITS STATE MACHINE IS BROKEN Expand unit state machine is very complex, which part of it is broken? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silier Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 On 09/03/2021 at 11:00 PM, BoredRusher said: Balance is good and you are right Expand I am confused, you say balance is good but posts above say something else. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoredRusher Posted March 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 On 10/03/2021 at 6:33 AM, Angen said: could you please be specific what period do you refer to as last days Expand The last 2-3 days to be exact. The release has been done with basic bugs. Maybe I'm wrong because I'm sure you do tests but in my point of view, those bugs were due to a rush. On 10/03/2021 at 6:44 AM, Angen said: I am confused, you say balance is good but posts above say something else. Expand Gameplay is not balance. I'm saying that gameplay is broken even if balance is better. On 10/03/2021 at 6:33 AM, Angen said: there have been almost month not introducing new things, just fixing crtical bugs and fixing balance based on players feedback from playing svn, which mostly was introduced by players requests in the first place. unit state machine is very complex, which part of it is broken? Expand I gave some examples of broken states in a former comment, please take a look at it then if you want further, I will show you by example. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silier Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 On 10/03/2021 at 7:03 AM, BoredRusher said: Gameplay is not balance. I'm saying that gameplay is broken even if balance is better Expand ok, so you count as changing attack values for units and introducing units to factions as gameplay and not balance, I see it as balance because it changes which faction is stronger or weaker Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoredRusher Posted March 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 On 10/03/2021 at 7:27 AM, Angen said: ok, so you count as changing attack values for units and introducing units to factions as gameplay and not balance, I see it as balance because it changes which faction is stronger or weaker Expand I am not talking of those changes. I'm complaining the most about state machines, rams for all factions, etc. You are corrupting my words. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Silier Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 On 10/03/2021 at 7:03 AM, BoredRusher said: The last 2-3 days to be exact Expand Honestly I don't see the point here. It was decided at some point to start release and stop adding new features so game can be tested. That period took almost month and no one noted such a problems that would imply the process needs to be longer. Sorry but I just said that adding new unit to faction is balance from my perspective (what adding rams to all faction is adding new unit) also you say you don't complain about stat changes (attack and so on) but you do as you say archers are op now what could only be done but changing their attack stats. On 09/03/2021 at 9:29 PM, BoredRusher said: Slingers were op in a23we complained then make archers op Expand On 09/03/2021 at 9:29 PM, BoredRusher said: Giving all the factions rams is abusive is my opinion as it reduces the originality of each faction Expand On 09/03/2021 at 9:29 PM, BoredRusher said: Resources are not balanced Expand that are 3 points mentioing balance I dont intend to corrupt your words, I just want to understand your point of view because it seems to be different from mine to what do you refer as balancing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoredRusher Posted March 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 On 10/03/2021 at 7:50 AM, Angen said: Honestly I don't see the point here. It was decided at some point to start release and stop adding new features so game can be tested. That period took almost month and no one noted such a problems that would imply the process needs to be longer. Sorry but I just said that adding new unit to faction is balance from my perspective (what adding rams to all faction is adding new unit) also you say you don't complain about stat changes (attack and so on) but you do as you say archers are op now what could only be done but changing their attack stats. that are 3 points mentioing balance I dont intend to corrupt your words, I just want to understand your point of view because it seems to be different from mine to what do you refer as balancing. Expand We definitely have different points of view. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 Congratulations to all the developers of this incredible game made in a collaborative and completely voluntary way. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borg- Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 Is not possible to please everyone. I see a lot of people online and a lot of games, so it seems like most of them liked it anyway. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grapjas Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 (edited) On 10/03/2021 at 3:31 PM, PhyZik said: Is true, a24 is trash compared to a23. The wheelchair banner fits this release perfect. Best wishes your Cav-GOAT Expand I'll refuse to understand how some people can just be this toxic and full of theirselves honestly. Don't you guys know no one is getting payed and everyone is giving their free time and will to work on this? To not agree, criticise, discuss is one thing but ^ that = EDIT: Also the prime example of what i meant when i said the devs shouldnt weigh to hard on negative opinions like these. Edited March 10, 2021 by Grapjas 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
borg- Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 On 10/03/2021 at 3:57 PM, Grapjas said: EDIT: Also the prime example of what i meant when i said the devs shouldnt weigh to hard on negative opinions like these. Expand Yes, i don't really care about that kind of "criticism" anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoredRusher Posted March 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 On 10/03/2021 at 3:41 PM, Lopess said: Congratulations to all the developers of this incredible game made in a collaborative and completely voluntary way. Expand Lopess, the developers are doing an awesome work and we agree on that. Also, if I am talking about those "negative" changes it's because I love this masterpiece and want all its good for the future. See my words more as suggestions than criticism to the wonderful job done by those great persons who did, for sure an achievement to be congratulated. On 10/03/2021 at 3:44 PM, borg- said: Is not possible to please everyone. I see a lot of people online and a lot of games, so it seems like most of them liked it anyway. Expand You are probably right but the in my humble perspective, a big percentage of people would like to play a23 only with some of the new a24 improvements. Maybe, we could launch a vote to see that deeply but as i said, it's only from my perspective. And if a such vote reveals that mainly the players prefer a24 (which will surprise me a lot), if think the losing margin will follow the way of the democracy. The most effective way to show those opinion variations is to do a vote on all the newly implemented features to see how effective is each one from the perspective of the community. A such vote could be by the way, a kind of guideline for the developers. A guideline to follow whenever they can so the game will progress as intended by both the majorities of the community and developers. And further, it would even be interesting to make a such vote during the early testing of new versions to avoid those divergences of opinion in the future. On 10/03/2021 at 3:57 PM, Grapjas said: I'll refuse to understand how some people can just be this toxic and full of theirselves honestly. Don't you guys know no one is getting payed and everyone is giving their free time and will to work on this? To not agree, criticise, discuss is one thing but ^ that = EDIT: Also the prime example of what i meant when i said the devs shouldnt weigh to hard on negative opinions like these. Expand Grapjas, maybe PhyZic was too far in his words. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Acanthis Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 I think that, perhaps, some people are so upset because they fear a25 will be years away. Yes, a24 is quite different from a23. Like, a lot. Almost a different game. Personally I'm happy things changed a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maroder Posted March 10, 2021 Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 On 10/03/2021 at 5:00 PM, BoredRusher said: The most effective way to show those opinion variations is to do a vote on all the newly implemented features to see how effective is each one from the perspective of the community. Expand That was done: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BoredRusher Posted March 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 10, 2021 On 10/03/2021 at 5:06 PM, maroder said: That was done: Expand This is a patch, right ? I'm talking of making a survey to have an efficient and exploitable feedback on all the newer features token individually. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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