wackyserious Posted October 5, 2020 Report Share Posted October 5, 2020 This is a proposal for a new unit for the Carthaginian faction. African Veterans Generic Name: African Veteran Specific Name: ? Class: Champion Infantry Spearman? or Swordsman? Hacker Armament: Spear? or Sword? Ranged Armament: None. Appearance: Armed and equipped with looted Italian equipment Garb: Tunic and lorica hamata Helmet: Hellenistic era helmets Shield: Roman scutum painted with Carthaginian symbols Figure(s): - History: Garrison: 1. Function: Heavy infantry. Good for holding the main battle line. Special: Trained by Hannibal. 4 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackyserious Posted April 9, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 9, 2021 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfinn the Shallow Minded Posted April 9, 2021 Report Share Posted April 9, 2021 I personally think this sounds fun. It would also be appropriate to potentially have Hamilcar be able to recruit mercenaries while we're at it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Player of 0AD Posted April 9, 2021 Report Share Posted April 9, 2021 I don't see a need to change the game according to this, so I'm against it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lopess Posted April 9, 2021 Report Share Posted April 9, 2021 1 hour ago, wackyserious said: It will be a beautiful addition to the Carthaginians! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Player of 0AD Posted April 9, 2021 Report Share Posted April 9, 2021 Archer Civs are already supposed to be OP, so it would be a mistake to make Carth better! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted April 9, 2021 Report Share Posted April 9, 2021 (edited) 9 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said: Archer Civs are already supposed to be OP, so it would be a mistake to make Carth better! Hmm, then boost the other civs? Looking at historical meta for a moment, I think both Rome and Carthage should be top tier. Ideally of course you want all civs to have a chance to win, but those 2 should definitely get some love. Edited April 9, 2021 by wowgetoffyourcellphone 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted April 9, 2021 Report Share Posted April 9, 2021 interesting if these veterans could form a kind of testudo. The other thing would be to choose between these and the sacred band. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Aurelian Posted April 9, 2021 Report Share Posted April 9, 2021 25 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said: interesting if these veterans could form a kind of testudo. The other thing would be to choose between these and the sacred band. Not sure if they should have Testudo, since i don't think the Romans at the time used that either; first mention of it seems to be in Mark Anthony's invasion of Parthia (and itt would work better with the later square scutum than the oval one of Punic wars). I was thinking the unit could be unlocked by choosing Hannibal as hero; in which case sacred band would probably be disabled (they did not exist by this time). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Oxenstierna Posted April 9, 2021 Report Share Posted April 9, 2021 I read that the Libyans are said to have fought similarly to the Macedonian phalanx. The veterans fought with the armor of the Romans, which was very expensive for that time and which was taken from the vanquished after the battles of Cannae, on the Trebia and Trasimeno Sea. I doubt that they used Roman tactics for this reason. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted April 9, 2021 Report Share Posted April 9, 2021 then for what reason the Middle Republican Romans have the formation of the testudo? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Player of 0AD Posted April 9, 2021 Report Share Posted April 9, 2021 1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: Hmm, then boost the other civs? Looking at historical meta for a moment, I think both Rome and Carthage should be top tier. Ideally of course you want all civs to have a chance to win, but those 2 should definitely get some love. No, nerf the archer civs ; ) They are just 4 so its easier to do that. There should be no top tier, every civ should have same strength as far as this is possible Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Panther Posted April 9, 2021 Report Share Posted April 9, 2021 43 minutes ago, Player of 0AD said: No, nerf the archer civs ; ) They are just 4 so its easier to do that. There should be no top tier, every civ should have same strength as far as this is possible Sounds boring - might aswell limit the game to only one civilisation in that case.The whole idea of maintaining multiple nations is different capabilities and adjusting your play wise. Therefore, I don't observe any problem with retaining more established and weaker cultures, in the end they have different bonuses that get them balanced anyway. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ultimate Aurelian Posted April 9, 2021 Report Share Posted April 9, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, Oxenstierna said: I read that the Libyans are said to have fought similarly to the Macedonian phalanx. The veterans fought with the armor of the Romans, which was very expensive for that time and which was taken from the vanquished after the battles of Cannae, on the Trebia and Trasimeno Sea. I doubt that they used Roman tactics for this reason. My understanding is they never used Sarrissa like Macedonians. And that Carthaginians fought as Hoplite phalanx early on; later becoming more like thureophoroi. About tactics, it seems the Testudo did not exist at the time in general (not even Romans used it yet). Video on the topic (subtitled): Edited April 9, 2021 by Ultimate Aurelian 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wackyserious Posted April 10, 2021 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2021 9 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said: interesting if these veterans could form a kind of testudo. The other thing would be to choose between these and the sacred band. Yes, reforms sounds good. Sacred band units vs. Hannibal veterans and elephants 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yekaterina Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 As a Carthaginian fan I think they deserve a sword champion. Currently they can only hire mercenaries which is expensive and weak. I don't think it makes Carthage much stronger but adds an option for them. They have no P2 champion neither, so I guess this is a compensation for them. If you feel they are too OP then suggest upgrades for other civs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lion.Kanzen Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 43 minutes ago, Yekaterina said: As a Carthaginian fan I think they deserve a sword champion. Currently they can only hire mercenaries which is expensive and weak. I don't think it makes Carthage much stronger but adds an option for them. They have no P2 champion neither, so I guess this is a compensation for them. If you feel they are too OP then suggest upgrades for other civs. May be Hannibal can train them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yekaterina Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 56 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said: May be Hannibal can train them. Sure. Should they be available from some other structures as well? e.g. barracks, temple, champion-trainer building. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 I think an "African Veteran" champion swordsman can be justified as perhaps an upgrade for the Liby-Phoenician Spearman or a swap-replacement for Sacred Band Hoplites. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yekaterina Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 african-veteran.zip Here is your African Veteran added. Trained by Hannibal Barca. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yekaterina Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 They look identical to Romans and are based on the Roman template ; ) I feel like Hannibal Barca a bit too OP right now. Maybe we should give this to Hasdrubal or Marhabal. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 I think they only make sense for Hannibal though, historically. And I'd also shy away from heroes training other units. Never felt right to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thorfinn the Shallow Minded Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 If Hannibal could train that unit, I think it would be fair for Hamilcar to be able to train mercenaries since that was his shtick. Maharbal could perhaps train cavalry units. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wowgetoffyourcellphone Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 We could make it so heroes can unlock the training of different units as long as they live. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yekaterina Posted May 15, 2021 Report Share Posted May 15, 2021 4 hours ago, Thorfinn the Shallow Minded said: If Hannibal could train that unit, I think it would be fair for Hamilcar to be able to train mercenaries since that was his shtick. Maharbal could perhaps train cavalry units. That would give Carthage some OP heroes, and it is exactly what I want! 3 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said: We could make it so heroes can unlock the training of different units as long as they live. That is also an idea. I guess I will make 2 different versions, and let you guys compare. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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