===[COMMITTED]=== Scythian Archer - Athens (Rework)

[wackyserious]

This is an overhaul for the Scythian Archer actor file. It is based on amphorae illustrations of Scythian mercenaries, some will be armored like how it was depicted in the amphorae.

[Nescio]

First of all, I certainly welcome having Scythian (scale) armour textures available, both for (cataphract) cavalry and infantry archers.

However, I'd advise against using armour for the Athenian “Scythian archer”s, because of their specific history. Originally they may have been a mercenary bodyguard of the late 6th C Athenian tyrants (Peisistratos and his sons Hipparchos and Hippias), but during the 5th C they were a body of state slaves who apparently acted as the police force in Athens (because they weren't citizens, they could not be sued, and because they were public property, their owners could not be sued either); they're present in several of Aristophanes' comedies. It is doubtful they ever fought on the battlefield, though. So colourful caps, capes, tunics, trousers and a gorytos (bow-case), yes please, but shields or body-armour, no thanks.

[wackyserious]

This was from the British Museum image gallery. Was the Eastern warrior depicted here a Scythian mercenary or not? This is what inspired me to put some armor on the actors. The scale armor was an assumption based on the idea that they wore light armor, same with the padded armor.

[Nescio]

If a Scythian is displayed with a hoplite, it's a generic mercenary, who could have been employed by any Greek state on the battlefield. And yes, those could indeed have armour (e.g. Greek linothrax, Scythian scales, etc.)

In contrast, when an Athenian classical text refers to the Σκύθαι (Scythians), Σπευσίνιοι (those of Speusinos), or τοξόται (archers), they typically mean the permanent public police of Athens, not ordinary mercenaries.

Spoiler

 

[Nescio]

Basically, please don't hesitate to add Scythian textures with armour, just don't use them for the Athenian champion.

On second thought, perhaps we should create some (untrainable) Scythian mercenary templates, e.g.:

Scythian mercenary archer b: trousers and long sleeves, no armour

Scythian mercenary archer a: trousers and long sleeves, linothrax

Scythian mercenary archer e: trousers and long sleeves, scale armour

Athenian infantry archer champion: fancy clothes, no armour.

[Lion.Kanzen]

[wackyserious]

Ready to commit.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

4 hours ago, wackyserious said:

Ready to commit.

I love these, but I honestly think they would have looked more like Lions reference. Artistic license might be okay though.

[wackyserious]

Saving this here for future reference.

[Lion.Kanzen]

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scythian_archers

 

Edited July 27, 2019 by Lion.Kanzen

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

Need. Scythian. Civ.

[Lion.Kanzen]

2 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

Need. Scythian. Civ.

That was my 13th faction.

[Sundiata]

@wackyserious, Here's some more Scythian refs:

Spoiler

 

 

 

Edited July 27, 2019 by Sundiata

[wackyserious]

@wowgetoffyourcellphone

[wackyserious]

[Sundiata]

@wackyserious, That's the inspiration for the Dahae horse archer used by the Seleucids

[Lion.Kanzen]

Take the simply patterns in mind.

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Lion.Kanzen

[av93]

On 7/26/2019 at 1:18 PM, wackyserious said:

Ready to commit.

As a general guideline IMHO:

Few colors to not distracte the player to see the player color, to see them as a uniform kind of unit and spot them fast.

Would keep the torso with similar patterns, and only small changes in the arms , like the middle one.

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

7 hours ago, Sundiata said:

@wackyserious, That's the inspiration for the Dahae horse archer used by the Seleucids

Also the Hyrcanian cavalry for the Persians. All of these tribes are related to the Scythians I think. Could update all 3 of these units in one swoop.

[balduin]

@wowgetoffyourcellphone I am not sure about the half round shield. I think they where a little bit more flat. In addition, the Archer on the horse has both his arms free. It seems almost like the shield was fixed on the armour.

What material is the shield suppose to be according to you? I personally, think it was a wood + something material. However, this is just my interpretation.

[Genava55]

I think it is based on this reproduction:

[wowgetoffyourcellphone]

1 minute ago, Genava55 said:

I think it is based on this reproduction:

This was also the basis for the Persian cavalry in the Alexander film.

[Lion.Kanzen]

still cavalry armor.

 

Edited July 28, 2019 by Lion.Kanzen

[balduin]

@Genava55 thanks for the reference.

@wowgetoffyourcellphone would it be possible to bring the protection shield and the horse rider closer together? In addition, could you improve the texture of the protection shield? It would be nice if you would use the same texture as the body armour has.

In regards to the helmet. Currently they are open, but according to the replica they would look more metallic/greyish. Can you change it to have a more metallic/greyish look?

In addition,  the current helmet is open, could you add the ear/side face protection and neck protection plates?

Otherwise I really like the work you did.

[Lion.Kanzen]

By the way.

Quote

There is always a debate about if the depictions of Scythians archers in Archaic and Classical pottery were real Scythians or archers of different ethnical groups , as an iconographic conventionality symbolizing a second rank character accompanying a “hero” . Professor Ivantchic concludes that the ‘Scythian’ clothes corresponded to the character’s function, not to his ethnical identity. The ‘Scythian’ attire of the archers on the vases, therefore, has nothing to do with the real Scythians of the North Pontic area [19]. As most of the depictions of archers in Archaic and Classical Pottery are actually figures of such warriors, we must always remember Ivantchic’s interesting conclusion. In a Pottery currently exposed in the Brussels, Musees Royaux and dated between 525-475 BC (Picture 3) we can see an archer shooting in motion with a short composite Scythian bow, drawing the arrow to the face height and looking very similar (although one cannot be certain) to the thumb technique. He may be using a protection for his thumb or not , but definitely we have a clear example of horizontal wrist grip, an indication of holding the string locked in his thumb, a placement of the arrow in the right side of the bow thus having a lot of similarities to the basic characteristics of the thumb form.

https://koryvantesstudies.org/studies-in-english-language/page209-2/