===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props

[LordGood]

5 hours ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:

But you do you dog.

*hawt dawg*

[Sundiata]

@wackyserious & @wowgetoffyourcellphone, quilted cotton armour can indeed be dyed in many different colours and patterns.

10th century Sudanese quilted cotton armour from the Kingdom of Makuria (a Christianised successor to Kush)

Because this organic material decomposes very quickly, we don't have any surviving examples to show :/ But quilted cotton was used very widely from East to West Africa, and I can share some 19th century Sudanese quilted cotton armours, which are very probably inherited from the ancient designs. These armours are often used to protect cavalry (I'll make an African cavalry post soon). The very widespread (definitely pre-Arabic) nature of this type of armour and design, suggests an ancient point of dissemination. The earliest written reference to Sudanese cotton armour backs this notion (4th century BC, Greek text referring to Kushite quilted cotton armour for rider and horse)...

Anyway: Here are a bunch of 19th century Sudanese quilted cotton armours:

(be aware that you shouldn't use those decorated geometric patterns of squares, because it's specifically associated with the Mahdist war)

Spoiler

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Sundiata

[wackyserious]

Combined and sorted with @wowgetoffyourcellphone's textures

Gonna add this to the mod now.

[Sundiata]

@wackyserious & @Alexandermb

For 3d tier Nubian cavalry. For Champion cavalry:

From the horse graves at Ballana. It's belongs to the 5th century post-Meroitic X-group, who inherited their cavalry culture from the Meroitic Kushites. Very similar, sometimes almost identical horse equipment is found among the earlier Kushites. These examples from Ballana (and also Qustul) are just much more intact (intact enough to be reassembled!).

For Hero cav: a modified version of this, with a feather-crown, and a leopard pelt covering the back part of the horse. (I'm still working on an illustration for that one). The feather crown needs to be of the Egyptian type, definitely not the seleucid one..

Nubian cav would just use leather bands instead of these silver and bronze discs. 

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Sundiata

[wackyserious]

@Sundiata What about the Nubian spearman? Should rank 1 wear the same bare chested Kushite clothing? Or should they wear animal pelt such as leopard skin?

[Sundiata]

2 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

Nubian spearman? Should rank 1 wear the same bare chested Kushite clothing? Or should they wear animal pelt such as leopard skin?

Actually it can be the other way around. They can be bare-chested with a simple loincloth at rank 1, but receive leopard pelt and Nubian sash from tier 2 or 3. Wearing a Leopard pelt was a sign of bravery and symbol of prestige.

[EDIT] lion cloths are just as good, by the way! 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Sundiata

[wackyserious]

@Sundiata Regarding the skin tone, I reused the textures of the pike infantry.

Can you comment on the skin tone?

1.) Pikemen is supposed to be Meroitic (Do the light skinned ones fit the category?)

2.) Vice versa of number 1 (Do dark skinned ones match the skin type of Nubians?)

 

[Sundiata]

@wackyseriousYeah, Pikemen would be generally dark, northern Sudanese (Nubians) have much more variety in skin-tone, so you could use the "lightest" skin-tone alongside the darker ones. That would be the most interesting and most representative of how the Egyptians also depicted them (both black and "reddish brown" skintones).

[I originally didn't realise different skin-tones for the same unit were possible. The mixing you're doing right now is really ideal, just try to respect the "expected" ratio's, like 2 light, one dark, for Nubians / 2 dark, one light for meroites, something like that]

By the way, the leopard and lion pelts would ideally not be loincloths, but the entire animal pelt (legs and all) wrapped around the legs, with the tail hanging from the butt. 

[wackyserious]

57 minutes ago, Sundiata said:

[I originally didn't realise different skin-tones for the same unit were possible. The mixing you're doing right now is really ideal, just try to respect the "expected" ratio's, like 2 light, one dark, for Nubians / 2 dark, one light for meroites, something like that]

So I will keep the variation for the pikeman and spearman above?

[wackyserious]

1 hour ago, Sundiata said:

By the way, the leopard and lion pelts would ideally not be loincloths, but the entire animal pelt (legs and all) wrapped around the legs, with the tail hanging from the but

I'm not really sure if the tail can be depicted due to the restrictions of the body mesh

[Sundiata]

18 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

I'm not really sure if the tail can be depicted due to the restrictions of the body mesh

Ah, Indeed...

22 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

So I will keep the variation for the pikeman and spearman above?

If it's ok for you, it's ok for me.

 

@wackyserious could you do something else for me? I made some sandals, and I'd like you to check if it's ok, or adjust them if it's possible. If they're ok, quality-wise for you, I'd like you to use the red sandals for all champions, and the golden sandals for all heroes. Let the regulars go barefoot (those filthy peasants..!)

Spoiler

 

Edited January 23, 2018 by Sundiata

[wackyserious]

@Sundiata Aye, I'll add those, the quality is really nice.

[Sundiata]

@wackyserious, sorry, sometimes I forget some nice references... This guy is essentially perfect for the top rank Nubian archer Kush_infantry_archer:

[Sundiata]

And this guy for mid tier:

[wackyserious]

1 minute ago, Sundiata said:

@wackyserious, sorry, sometimes I forget some nice references... This guy is essentially perfect for the top rank Nubian archer Kush_infantry_archer:

This was already created by @wowgetoffyourcellphone

That one too

[Sundiata]

Ah, yes indeed..  

[wackyserious]

@Sundiata About the ochre dyed hair of the Nubians, did everyone in ancient Nubian society applied this to their hair? If not, I will add the old nubian head from the game to the variations of the nubian head created by wowgetoffyourcellphone.

[Sundiata]

@wackyserious, The ochre dyed hair is only for Kush_infantry_archer and Kush_infantry_spearman. They shouldn't necessarily all have it, but they could. Depends on what you think looks better. 

[wackyserious]

@Sundiata If you think they should all have it to better depict history, it will not be changed. Otherwise, give me a good ratio on how often should dyed hair appear in a variation.

[Nescio]

Ochre or henna?

[wackyserious]

Not sure, I assumed it as ochre,

[Sundiata]

1 minute ago, wackyserious said:

If you think they should all have it to better depict history, it will not be changed. Otherwise, give me a good ratio on how often should dyed hair appear in a variation

To get real technical, red dyed, blond dyed and black hair are all pictured. Red and blond (I know...) often appear together in ratio's of 50/50, but red is sometimes depicted exclusively, and black is also sometimes depicted exclusively. Red dyed and black appear most common, Blond appears regularly as well, but never exclusively. 

 

4 minutes ago, Nescio said:

Ochre or henna?

Red Ochre... Henna is used among Nubians today for painting hands and arms, but I don't think they use it for hair dying (I know other people do). Some tribes in Sudan (and Ethiopia/Kenya) still dye their hair red (with ochre).

South Sudan:

 

Omo Valley women, Ethiopia:

[Sundiata]

Ok, I think what's best is just 50/50 red/black for all the Nubian units: Kush_infantry_archer and Kush_infantry_spearman, as well as the Nuba mercs, kush_infantry_merc_javelinist and clubman

[Nescio]

1 hour ago, Sundiata said:

Red Ochre... Henna is used among Nubians today for painting hands and arms, but I don't think they use it for hair dying (I know other people do). Some tribes in Sudan (and Ethiopia/Kenya) still dye their hair red (with ochre).

Thanks for the clarification. The ancient Egyptians used henna to dye their hair (traces are preserved in mummies), the plant is native to that part of the world, but ochre was also widely known and used for painting since prehistoric times, so I figured both were possible, hence my asking.

[Sundiata]

@stanislas69, @Alexandermb, if you have time and interest, could one of you perhaps make a model for the scabbard of the Kushite swordsmen? I already made the texture with the exact outline. Is it good enough? I hope you can use it.. 

It's supposed to be attached to straps, hanging around the shoulder on the back, or be tucked under a belt.

 

Spoiler

 

"Modern" Sudanese Kaskara (cross hilted long swords of the crusader type) use the same type of scabbards as the Kushites did for their short swords. I share for comparison, and show how it's attached to it's straps: