Known Problems (Please read before posting)

[Charah]

And another such moment – now Kush has Nubian mercenaries, by and large, are not needed. Warriors with a mace are useless trash, unable to effectively fight other infantry. At the same time, Blemish camel riders are slightly more expensive than Nubian spear throwers, but much stronger and more mobile.

P.S. I seem to have translated almost everything, except for the names and names of Han buildings. Slightly corrected the wording of the translations.

[Gurken Khan]

7 minutes ago, Charah said:

Kush has Nubian mercenaries, by and large, are not needed. Warriors with a mace are useless trash

I (and others) like the skirmishers. Some people like the mace men as very mobile demolition crews (due to their crush dmg).

@Stan` I don't think this is the right thread for this discussion.

[Yekaterina]

1 hour ago, Charah said:

Warriors with a mace are useless trash, unable to effectively fight other infantry.

They are intended to be used on rams, buildings, catapults, siege towers, not for fighting enemy infantry. 

[Charah]

Hello everyone!
I played with the warriors with a mace. Yes, they are not as bad as they seemed to me. I just tried to use them for a long time, apparently they were made a little better. So my hitting them was wrong, I admit.
But there still remains the problem that the AI uses them incorrectly and suffers greatly on metal. What I wrote about above. I really hope that the AI behavior will be corrected, it hurts to look at 20+ warriors with a mace who fight against 10 mounted fighters or elite swordsmen. I myself really like Kush, so it's doubly insulting for them.
There is another idea - mercenaries still do not participate in the collection of resources, they just stand in front of the AI barracks (or other place of creation). Maybe we should make the AI send them to the barracks for promotion? How difficult will it be to implement such a thing?

Edited June 12, 2022 by Charah

[Charah]

Good day to all, you were not waiting, and I am with a new batch of offers. Please do not hit hard))

A couple more things that could be improved in the game:
1. The AI uses a strelomet (a siege weapon with piercing damage) only to attack buildings. Which is absolutely ineffective.
2. AI likes to get stuck with siege guns in narrow places, especially near towers.
3. The AI actively places infantry in the tower (sometimes bringing it from the other side of the map), even if the tower is attacked by a single infantryman, and the tower does not have the ability to fire under itself (i.e. 5 stooges are sitting inside and doing nothing).
4. It would be cool to prioritize the extraction of resources: very often pikemen carry food from the fields, and the townspeople pick metal. it was also possible to think about the "limit" - often the AI accumulates 5+ thousand stones, and it continues and continues to mine it, then sell it for metal, which could be mined right next to it.
5. The problem with the animation of pikemen when capturing buildings is the spears turned upside down. In general, it's funny to watch how the guys hold a huge pike with one hand and wave it in the air. Especially when they are 30 + dug))
6.Perhaps it's worth changing the animation of capturing buildings to the one that units have and is used when winning a battle?
7. I have already written, but I will point out again - pikemen, because of their low attack speed, are very slow to pump, and in fact, usually die without even getting 1 promotion. And swordsmen, often, on the contrary, because of the high attack speed, very quickly become veterans.

Edited June 21, 2022 by Charah

[Lion.Kanzen]

13 hours ago, Charah said:

The AI uses a (a siege weapon with piercing damage) only to attack buildings. Which is absolutely ineffective.

Scorpion?

13 hours ago, Charah said:

AI likes to get stuck with siege guns in narrow places, especially near towers.

Ballista ,I guess.

[Charah]

1. Yes, scorpion
2. Usually a battering ram, but I'll check again

Edited June 22, 2022 by Charah

[Yekaterina]

2 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Scorpion?

Roman bolt shooter, aka Scorpio

[Lion.Kanzen]

4 hours ago, Sevda said:

Roman bolt shooter, aka Scorpio

bolt shooter is the correct name, thanks

[Charah]

50 minutes ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

bolt shooter - правильное название, спасибо

as well as oxybeles (Sparta, Athens, Carthage and some others). Their 240 stabbing damage is not the best means for demolishing buildings
.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Charah

[Lion.Kanzen]

1 hour ago, Charah said:

as well as oxybeles (Sparta, Athens, Carthage and some others). Their 240 stabbing damage is not the best means for demolishing buildings
.

It's not supposed to be used for that.

It is used against organic units.

[Charah]

3 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

 

this is understandable. but then it's worth "explaining" it to AI)) the bot didn't think of that)) For him, everything that is done in the workshop is units for demolishing buildings.

Edited June 22, 2022 by Charah

[Lion.Kanzen]

3 hours ago, Charah said:

this is understandable. but then it's worth "explaining" it to AI)) the bot didn't think of that)) For him, everything that is done in the workshop is units for demolishing buildings.

not necessarily, the siege tower does not fulfill that task either.

[AIEND]

20 分钟前，Lion.Kanzen 说：

不一定，攻城塔也不能完成这个任务。

My suggestion is to make siege towers only attack buildings, then replace normal arrows with flaming arrows, and of course, set different fire resistances for all buildings.

[Freagarach]

6 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

not necessarily, the siege tower does not fulfill that task either.

It won't even make siege towers. ^^'

9 hours ago, Charah said:

For him, everything that is done in the workshop is units for demolishing buildings.

Yep, sadly this is correct. There is a lot to do for PetraAI.

[Charah]

Good afternoon, I am glad that the project is developing. But now I'm throwing a whole lot of negativity, please don't be offended. I do not know who set up the AI bot, but you partially broke it.
Comments on the behavior of the BOT Petra in general:

1. The bot does not make part of the units.
2. When switching to T2 and T3 (and after some time) the bot may stop making some units of the previous era.
3. At some point, the Ptolemy and Selekvids bot may simply stop making citizen warriors and women. As a result, its economy is simply dying due to lack of resources. For understanding – at one point in the battle between two bots with approximately equal population, the ratio of workers was 40 to 160.
4. Since the bot moves attacking units from point to point, is it possible to make them move in formation? This can get rid of the situation when the cavalry has already died, and the heavy infantry has not even reached yet.
5. Women have become a little more active in running away during an attack, but still do not hide and die in packs.
6. Soldiers are still massively stomping into towers and fortresses, paying little attention to the enemy. Their behavior has become a little better, they react more often to an attack, but at the same time the shooters die in packs, trying to get through a bunch of enemies.
7. The bot studies espionage and anti-espionage technologies. What for? He can see the whole map anyway.
8. The Spartan arrow launcher is still used by the bot to shoot at buildings.
9. When setting up a building, how does the bot calculate the distance? Or puts it in pre-specified places. Very often warehouses and barns are located close to the source of resources, only on the hills, and resources are at the bottom, as a result, units go back and forth a lot.
10. Elephants and heroes on elephants are trying to hide in the fortress.

Some comments on the behavior of bots of different nations:
1. Kush does not make swordsmen and mounted spearmen. On T2 (after some time) makes only pikemen and archers.
2.  Kush  on T3 often makes too many mercenaries, to the detriment of the elite and battle elephants.
3. Kush does not make a cavalry of spearmen-citizens (in any case, I have never seen them)
4. Ptolmei on T3 often does not make pikemen and slingers, as a result, he runs out of workers and the economy dies. Probably, the matter is in priority – mercenaries (spearmen and archers), by classes for AI replace the usual infantry and "stronger".
5. The same situation with selekevid.
6. Han on T2 and T3 does not make cavalry with swords, and this is their only unit purely with a chopping attack, and they really have nothing to fight off rams with.
7. Han does not use ministers and does not create foot archers.
8. Athens does not make epibates (and this is the only unit with a slashing attack) and often prefers hired archers rather than elite ones.
9. The Persian does not make riders with an axe at all, and this is the only unit with a significant chopping attack, which means they have nothing really to beat the battering rams with.
10. The Persian often makes horsemen with spears after studying elite cavalry, when they are no longer needed, but does not make them on T2.
11. The Persian does not make infantrymen of the Lydian auxiliaries (spear throwers).
12. The Persian does not use immortals with bows.
13. Sparta and Athens do not or do not improve the "Hoplite tradition". For them, this is one of the most useful improvements.
14. Mauri does not make swordsmen and horsemen with swords. Does not make warriors with a mace and archers on an elephant. As a result, there are no infantry to destroy the rams. Only their battering rams and elephants.

Notes for map developers:
1. On the map of the Gali Highlands – bots can't get to the cows in the pens
2. The Greek Acropolis is on the map – the bot also cannot get to the sheep and the tree behind the fence
3. Do not surround resources with a solid wall. It may be beautiful, but it can break the behavior of the bot.

Questions and thoughts on balance:
1. Isn't it fat for Athens to have epibates on T2? Top swordsmen from T3 are not too much at this stage?
2. Why do the Persians need chariots? In terms of parameters, they are identical to horse archers.
3. Absolutely unbalanced heroes in the game. I have already seen a separate branch in the game on this score. There are two options here – to use historical achievements and personality traits, or to go more from the balance side.
For understanding:
1. All 3 heroes of the Ptolemies are excellent – we reduce the cost of all mercenaries, increase the life of the infantry or accelerate its attack.
2. Maurya does not have any such bonus.
  a. What is "better" – regeneration for warriors nearby at 0.8 hp per second, or +80 HP for elite pikemen from Ptolemies?
  b. Fat elephant without bonuses?
  c. Discount on technology research in the temple, which is used, to put it mildly, not often, and besides, there is a native discount of 50%. This bonus is useless.
3. Rome has two attack bonuses (cavalry and all) and one for defense, and this one is also for the whole map. Everything for the war and nothing for the economy, this is an interesting option.
4. Kush has bonuses to attack everyone, the elite and a discount on one type of elite. And is this bonus "equal" to the discount on mercenaries from Ptolemies? Or is he inferior to him in benefits?
It seems to me that it would be worth trying to create some kind of balance here, so that each nation would have bonuses for both combat and discounts. Or maybe in different combinations, but so that they are approximately "comparable" in benefits. Give nations bonuses and heroes so that they are all about the same level, because now there are nations with useful heroes and bonuses, and boring ones.

Divide the bonuses by type: increased attack, defense, discount, ore mining bonus, hp, etc. Check their balance, give them to weak heroes.

[Silier]

Hi and thank you for the detailed feedback.

Just to answer several points about ai training or not training certain units. Currently how it works is that It has defined certain categories/classes and just picks unit with the best stats inside those.

 

For the placing of warehouse and barn, it tries to put them to the best spot taking to account all resources around, it doesn't place them specifically for wood e..g but for all wood, stone and metal. Also it does not know if there is hill, the resource map for ai is flat.

For food storage. It is just to place it in way so there will be space around for fields.

Edited October 12, 2022 by Silier

[Charah]

Good afternoon, I guess about this. But I don't have an exact understanding of how it works, and it is perceived rather negatively. I understand that not many people probably play with bots, but still, at least for beginners, they should be worthy rivals in order to understand the basics of the game. Still, I want the game to get better)

[Calimero]

On 17/06/2020 at 3:44 PM, Stan` said:

Hey @Calimero I missed you on IRC.

What OS are you on ?

sorry for my late reply.
OS is windows. I did succeed with the attachement.