Grautvornix

@Lion.Kanzen Would it be useful and possible to create kind of an index or a table listing different ideas, pointing towards the respective thread where they were presented and discussed? Something like "Name of Proposal", "Short Description" , "Thread where it is discussed". This could probably be an introduction page to this thread that is regularly updated as new ideas come in.

Just saw an old ticket (#1437 Decide on land unit fishing, 12 years old, last comment 6 years ago). Was it ever decided not to implement? If so then we can close the ticket possibly. Else here could be another little idea from the past. This means any land unit (pedestrian gatherer) can go fishing at the coastline if there is fish in reach (depends on the map, some even had fish on land by mistake). This might require a new animation for the gatherer, hence it might be a lot of effort for a small benefit. Other than fishing boats, single persons probably cannot deplete fish completely as its regeneration rate might be high enough. Does anyone know? In sparse naval maps with very limited resources this could allow for a specific strategy using javelineers or archers to fish while establishing defense against incoming ships.

Indeed, sorry for bringing old ideas up again, did not know - but I believe they are still useful. This thread is intended to collect them so we create a reservoir of ideas(just in case someone is looking for new things to implement ).

Sorry this, is a better thread (instead of "==[Brainstorming]== for cheats units"): I just remembered Settlers V where there was the ability to put pit traps and booby traps (not very historical though), able to create limited damage (killing one enemy soldier). If I recollect some reports on the strategy used by Julius Caesar in his siege of Alesia, Romans were using traps as well to protect their backs from approaching enemies. We could thus place a line of limited defense like a "mine field". This would require a new game mechanism but might be a cool feature to add at a later stage. What do you think?

Right Probably the wrong threat (apologies!) but I just remembered Settlers V where there was the ability to put pit traps and booby traps (not very historical though), able to create limited damage (killing one enemy soldier). If I recollect some reports on the strategy used by Julius Caesar in his siege of Alesia, Romans were using traps as well to protect their backs from approaching enemies. This would require a new game mechanism but might be a cool feature to add at a later stage. What do you think?

Cool, but burning pigs able to destroy buildings would probably be more realistic (although this is really cruel practice).

Frankly, I'd think this would be a bit too far fetched. Anyone of the population can find and collect a treasure, but not a farm animal (finding ok, but not collecting, I believe).

So thanks a lot for taking the effort to create this new map!

Beautiful map - and seems a little bit constrained on wood, if I see correctly - which is very good! (If all resources were plentiful, there would be less strategic challenge.)

Sounds like a great plan!

... if available.

That is a great idea! During recent discussions it became obvious that some ideas have already been discussed several times in the past. Those discussion were valuable and shall not be lost!

Please don't misunderstand - my point was not to criticise and I do enjoy the passionate discussion in this forum about historical aspects of the game! Just believe we should make it interesting to a beginner, and this motivation would most likely be increased if the scenario and the civ was a popular, well-known one. (Also the map needs to be beautifu; we just have so many beautiful maps it is difficult to select onel )

While I do like historical accuracy and reference, it looks to me as if it is not so easy to find that one suitable scenario for a beginner's tutorial. What if we created - either a phantasy scenario that tells the story of establishing a "yet unknown" greek colony somewhere in Anatolia or a small Aegean island. - or a "made-up" one with a great and well-known reference that does not need much explanation of the historical background. (e.g. life in a Germanic village, that, after a few lessons, culminates into the Limes map/or the opposite, establish a Roman colony in Germania and then finally build a Limes. Would it make sense to have the same tutorial with different scenarios the player can select from? This would certainly mostly make sense for the phantasy scenario option. Just the player can use his favourite civ and then play a tuorial. We could use few different civs each with a specific biome but the same scripting.

Oops - ok then should it start in the middle of somewhere? Or with a little ship that has to be sailed to the nearest coast? Or should there be a CC already?

Why not starting from a shipwreck with a handful of men & women plus a hero like in a nomadic mode? Start building a CC and collect berries and wood. Build a house. Build a dumpsite /storage near the wood. Train a scout, go hunting, get attacked by a wolf. Build a farm and some fields. Build a stable and produce cattle. Start buidling a small army. Scout the environment. Get attacked (trigger map) by bandits. Continue discovering, meet your friendly neighbor who offers an alliance. Build a market and start trading with your new ally. Respond to a request for help against bandits. All this does certainly not train the strategic basics but the fundamental mechanics of the game. Strategy should be the subject of the next lessons. For everything wer might need some guidance material, e.g. a tutor window giving tasks and explaining strategic options (where to build what, how to optimize things etc.). Could that be implemented?

I admit that this would sacrify historical accuracy in favor of a story.

Right, but interestingly we have a (very nice) map with exactly the scenario of Greeks attacking Troy. My point is Rome was certainly not built in a day, but as a scenario for newcomers it could provide certain attractivity.

Imagine you are Aeneas, survivor of Trojan war, arriving at the Italian coast (maybe historically not correct. Also noticed we don't have that civ, should it be something greek?) You land with your last ship with 5 comrades (citizen soldiers e.g. peltasts) and 5 women citizen. Build a harbour. Use your citizen to collect berries and wood. Use the soldiers to hunt wild goats. Survive a wolf attack. Collect sufficient wood and food to top up your supplies so you can build a CC. Build a fishing boat and go fishing. After you have collected enough food, train a scout. Start discovering your environment (beautiful landscape and various resources - forest, wild game, stone quarries) until you meet your neutral neighbor. He offers you an alliance if you send 100 units food and 100 wood). become an ally. Help them fighting some bandits responding to their call. Build a market Start a trading route with your ally. Next game: the son of Aeneas is challenged to build a small military force to fight against bandit attacks. Barracks, outpost, manned tower. Soon you are to establish Rome... (I do agree there would be far too many timejumps...)

That's all very valid argumentation - but the original point was less about soil fertility itself that can indeed be improved by appropriate treatment, but more generally the suitability of various types of terrain for farming, i.e. a complex made out of water availablility and soil structure. Irrigation systems are currently nbot part of the game (e.g. building wells, pipes, aquaeducts or the like) (apologies, you might tell from that that I have played "settlers" a lot in the past). That would be a future possibility I would be looking forward to. BTW, destroying your opponent's irrigation system could be a strategy to weaken their farming yield, very much an economical impact like attacking their traders/markets. The whole point is also not about technology within the tech tree but about different parts of a map could be more or less suitable for farming. Agree that this would need to be implemented within the map itself. Sorry, here is a related topic (could not resist): A more simple system could be based on climate or biome: I always wondered how one can grow e.g. a ricefield in an arctic environment. in those maps we should depend more on fishing or hunting, potentially also on livestock breeding. Could there be a general farming malus based on the biome type? (as an example nubian, sahara, arctic, or savanna biomes could have malus settings). All these proposed changes, climate/biome dependency as well as terrain type, could add another little strategic dimension to the game - where to put the next farm, and possibly also where to put the next CC without being too complex.

Just asking as you stated that we don't have that in 0AD - but we do (I think). I can fight together with allies against whomever. (that's why I asked what this special cooperative mode should be.)

@Lion.KanzenCooperative Mode? Is that working wiht your ally(ies) against a common adversary? Or does that refer to all against gaia? (sorry for my stupid question!)

Of course I do!

Well, I believe all this is intended to serve as background info/justification why this scenario is interesting. The training campaign description must be much, much simpler, of course. I guess the important points are: learn to move units and fight in a small battle learn essential parts of building a colony (CC, farms, wood, etc..) learn structured build-up learn about diplomacy/trade learn fighting in larger campaigns We just need a suitable story around this.

This is ultra-cool! Great storyline that should well motivate newcomers getting to know the game!