Grautvornix

@Stan` Sorry for the trouble! Am I doing something wrong? (any data limit or the like?) Thanks for your help!

Here is the latest version 1.6.0 (the topmost post of this thread goes often locked when I add a new version) CHANGELOG.md README.md post-atlas-1.6.0.zip CREDITS.md

Thanks @Asher for your kind offer! Possibly if you could test the conversion of old maps (pmp version 5 or so). I am currently preparing another version 1.6.0 of post-Atlas that includes (1) the capability to randomly turn trees so they look less uniform as implemented by @vladislavbelov as a standalone Python script in https://wildfiregames.com/forum/topic/109382-atlas-scenario-editor-random-facing-direction-for-trees-on-placement/ (2) when converting an old map where there are units and other elements that cannot be anymore found (due to renaming, regrouping etc.) off er choosing an alternate elemetn from the currently available lsit.

Converting old maps There was a decision in the past to split the Celts civ into Britons and Gaul as well as Helenes into Athen, Macedonians and Spartans. Not easy to convert old maps... Converting pmp version 5 to 6, or 7 seems to be easier than I thought, just we need to modify the pmp file for that. Here is a new version 1.5.3 of the Atlas post processor tool post-Atlas. Here is the changelog and the readme. Have fun map checking and converting! CHANGELOG.md README.md post-atlas-1.5.3.zip

Thanks @Asher! This is great to hear! (read ) Just tried to convert some older maps from the forum (the LegendofMali worked mostly!) but some are just too old and I need to investigate how to still use them.

@Thalatta You are right - will remove that constraint (also use captured buildings as a quarry). Will also change the refunding stone and metal (50% each) wood (30%). While modifying the mod, I changed the "delete" function of everything: a unit being deleted (killed by its "owner") looses health over time (10s) until it dies (same es when being attacked), as well as any structure/siege/ships being deleted. Here is the latest version 1.4.0 with that logic (I know there is still a way to go). recover-resources.zip README.md

Updated to 1.3.0 (see top of this thread) Extended editing capability Analyze tab lists also treasures and relics if any Re-arranged section on the analyze and edit tabs fo rimproved readability.

@Thalatta happy it was not in my code

Here is an intermediate step recover-resources.mod V1.32. - not taking into account @Thalatta's latest comments yet, unfortunately. Version 1.3.2 · for 0 A.D. release 28 and the release 29 development builds When you delete one of your own structures, ships or siege engines, you get back a share of its resource cost, provided the situation allows it. What comes back is the salvage rat (30 % by default) multiplied by the object's health condition, meaning its remaining health. Food is never given back. Rules and Constraints: Only your own deliberate deletion (Delete key / delete button) triggers a refund. Nothing is refunded when an enemy destroys the entity. The refund is based on the entity's current cost, including cost modifiers from technologies and civilisation bonuses. Food is excluded: it was eaten during construction, while timber, stone and metal can be carried away. Entities you captured or converted from another player (or from Gaia) are not refunded. Ships are only refunded when deleted within 30 m of one of your own finished docks. Otherwise the message says how many ships gave nothing back. Siege engines are only refunded while they stand inside your own territory, e.g. a catapult abandoned deep in enemy land gives nothing back. The refund shrinks with condition: a ram at 40 % health gives back 40 % of the usual amount. Buildings (nw including walls and towers) must pass three rules: not attacked or captured in the last 15 seconds, no enemy capture progress and not decaying outside your borders, and one of your worker units within 20 m to do the work. Fields are never refunded. Nothing you delete dies at once. Buildings are dismantled and units disbanded over 10 seconds, losing health as they go, and any resources only arrive at the end (units don't give back resources). Pressing delete again calls it off and the drained health is given back; an enemy hit interrupts it the same way. Units take just as long even though they hand nothing back. Anything under threat is the exception: it falls the moment you press delete, because under fire there is no time for an orderly teardown. That means anything hit in the last 5 seconds, or with an armed enemy within 40 m — enemies closing in count even before the first blow lands. Whether it still pays out is decided by the ordinary rules, so a building under attack dies at once and gives nothing. Unfinished foundations are skipped because the base game already refunds the unbuilt part of their cost. Deletions the game itself blocks (for example, a building that is mostly captured) get no refund. A short message shows how much was recovered. recover-resources.zip README.md

A new realease of post-Atlas is available (see intial post of this threat). It covers these bugs: changed to the game's standard spelling (hopefully captured all issues) show natural food resources placed on the map in analyze tab/resources table make the finding table sortable allow re-reading the map after changing (re-analyze button) conversion process can be stopped. added support for nomad mode And these new features: Assess balance of resources amongst players (imbalance might be an intended challenge hence this is only an indicational warning) Added a way to edit map properties (analyze tab, edit button), so that it is possible to edit description, names, map characteristics, players etc. without re-opening Atlas. Please let me know your observations, criticism, found bugs, new ideas, improvement suggestions etc.!

Phantastic! Beautiful! Awesome!

Exactly - had Claude analyse spelling through the game and maps and the verdict was rather US English, although not fully consistent throughout maps and modules. So most probably I continue in an inconsistent spelling (changed Analyse to Analyze and colour to color, but not yet civilisaiton to civilization). As this change took a lot of tokens, I'd park that for the moment.

@AsherThanks for your comprehensive review! Let me try and resolve things ... Was the mod that provided the missing resource for the map activated in your game (and saved) ? (if not, the tool does not see it.) This is a great idea - normally I would have thought that this is defined by the map creator in Atlas already, or on an existing map the map author has a specific scenario in mind (hence the name scenario map). Will integrate that - with that warning, though. In any case the original map is never modified by the tool unless you explicitly request that using the "edit map in place" button. Please clarify! That was a decision is because food resources are also part of what you will be building (fields, corrals). If you consider it useful we can certainly add natural food resources like fish, berries/fruit trees/edible animals etc. This could show a maps initial nutrition potential. Will change. Ok, got me - I used UK English and you are requesting US English. Will change. Had the same observation when I had installed the map already in the target folder in game. This is a logic bug. Will change. But wouldn't that potentially stop the process in the middle of something, i.e. in a non deterministic situation? This should then remove the product of conversion. Or do you want to stop the process when processing batches of maps after one map has finished befaore the next one is started? That's another bug to fix. The conversion from persian to achaemenid somehow was wrongly assumed to have happened pre-R0.28. Will change.

Indeed the GUI of Atlas is powerful but not particularly user friendly in my opinion. Started working on it using python. Approaching the editor from two sides - a map analyser/checker/covnerter called "post-Atlas",see this thread: and a map skeleton preparation tool referred to as "prep-Atlas" (not yet published). Actually I would like to modify the ATLAS UI itself but this is a larger task.

@Asher Here is a bit of feedback on dependencies on entities in other mods: post-Atlas already reads dependencies and shows them on the Analyse tab. What it does not do is connect them to the entities a map places — which is your actual request A maps mod.json provides Dependencies as a real key: "dependencies": ["0ad>=0.28.0", "millenniumad>=1.0"]. Operators are <=, >=, =, <, >. A dependency with no operator is not checked at all. CheckForIncompatibleMods only compares when it finds an operator in the string, so "dependencies": ["millenniumad"] is documentation, nothing more. Write millenniumad>=0 if you want it enforced. CAVEAT: It requires the other mod to be enabled, not merely installed — the version table is built only from the mods in that launch list. It names the mod's name key, not its folder. The base game is 0ad, though its folder is public. Proposed solution: Today a template that isn't in public or the map's own mod produces entity-template-missing, a FAIL, while another mod might have it. Four steps: When templates are missing, search the other mods in the selected install — its own binaries/data/mods and the user's Documents\My Games\0ad\mods, both of which Session already knows — for simulation/templates/<name>.xml, and for actors under art/actors/. Only when something is missing, so nothing slows down. Report what was found by name: "structures/mil/tower is in mod millenniumad (Millennium A.D. 1.2)" — the finding turns from "broken map" into "enable this mod". Where nothing is found: say plainly that these are probably from a mod not installed here, and name the count. Check the map's own mod.json against that: entities from mod X with X not in dependencies → WARN, with an automatic fix that adds X>=<installed version>. write_mod_json already preserves keys it doesn't own, and the converter already writes the file. Conversion and Test in Game: carry the dependency into the converted mod's mod.json, say in the report which mods must also be enabled, and add them to the -mod= list when launching. The other issues, inactive buttons not being visible on dark schem, missing light scheme, missing tooltips Are also addressed. As usual I'll put the release into the top message of this thread. Let me know if something is missing or failing!

@ThalattaThanks for you comprehensive review! My point is that I try to not substantially modify fundamentals in game mechanics just add a slight touch of more complexity. Salvaging allows getting resources in an emergency via a separate path (not trading, not gathering which might both not be possible in a situation). I'd prefer "salvage rate" so in the end it amounts to "salvage rate × condition = refund". It is a bit complex but I believe we should keep the ability to fine tune. Here we have rules we can turn on and off and also adjust some parameters ("when not sure make it configurable" ) I wanted to have configurable options so there might be a reason why certain types of buildings are excempt (chnged it to exclude fields but not exclude wall segments and towers anymore). So the mechanics is there and it can be configured to exclude what ever building we want - or none. The building shall be recovered only in peace times, i.e. it is not under attack and hasn't recently (15s, configurable). I wanted to make really sure it s not being attacked and not being taken over and is not partially "owned " by someone else, hence the multiplicity of rules. Destruction must be carried out by someone nearby (presence of a unit in 20m, configurable) I also thought about your proposal to let workers destruct (unproduce) a builidng (same animation like construct), but I consider this confusing to see exactly the same animation taking down as building up ("in the heat of the game..."). Absolutely - good point! Will remove that. Walls segments and towers are back in. Same rules as for all builidngs apply. I wanted to avoid adding another icon that might clutter the user interface. Let me experiment if we can "auto-salvage" ships and sieges. (click delete icon (means slavaging) and the ship or siege goes back to the nearest dock or depot where it is dismantled). No, its all of them. At the moment, buildings that don't satisfy the condition (unit nearby) are destroyed exactly like before, but no refund. Destroying with refund takes 10s (draining their health condition until they collapse - and only then there is a refund. The process will be cancelled by any attack). But they are not queued - so if you slect a group of builidngs, hit delete and have a unit nearby each, it takes 10s. I suggest modifying the general delete mechanics to take a few seconds both for structures - and also for units. Let me test if that works.

Thanks! Very good - I'll take that on board. Oops! Good point as well. Needs to be changed. You are right, was just lazy and tried to keep it initially simple for me on a local repository. Will change that.

All right here is my proposal: a refund is limited to a percentage of the resources it took to construct something, say, 50%, multiplied with the current health status of the object, i.e. a ship at 60%health gets 30% refund. all refunds are tied to a condition: ships must be within the perimeter (30m) of your own dock. Outside that area there is no refund. siege engines must be on your own territory, no refund outside. buildings are more complicated: some should not give a refund (walls, towers), others only give a refund if not under attack since 15s and fully owned, and if one own unit is present in their vicinity (radius 20m). Deletion wiht refund becomes a salvaging teardown: the building loses health over, 10 seconds, the resources arrive at the end, any enemy damage during that period cancels it. Deletion of buildings without anyone nearby, or not satisfying the other conditions is immediate and without a refund. All of this remains configurable as I am not yet sure about the best settings (distances, level of refund, criteria, teardown period) I'll adapt the mod and test it first before posting. Done testing. Please see below for the mod. WIll also put it onto mod.io and hope it can be signed @Stan`@ltms recover-resources.zip README.md

OK, point taken - how could that be addressed? Should we introduce steps and/or a cap, like 0% finalized- 100% refund, up to 70% finalized - 30% refund, more than 70% finalized - no refund anymore. Deletion after completion - 30% refund. Would that work for you? Currently no salvaging of destroyed buildings exists and they can be immediately deleted anyway at the moment. Requiring units (no siege engines) to actively destroy own buildings woud prevent doing that to a whole group of buildings at once already. Would you really want to use valuable units to destroy that one storehouse that's not needed anymore jsut to get back, say, 30 wood? For me this could be an emergency aspect to get more resources if none is in reach and no bartering is possible anymore, e.g. after a devastating attack of your enemy. Of course, but for gameplay and simplicity I would possibly tend towards the same level of resource refund (we could use the same mechanism). But isn't that a contradiction? If it shall be ultra-fast (scorched earth tactics) it cannot be queued as this would take too long.

Did a total review and refactoring of the user interface and functionality. Hope it is better now. I am placing the python code and new screenshots in the original post on top of this conversation. @Asher I'd love to have your comemnts - please have a look!

Sorry, did not see your message before responding to your previous one. The discussion is less about the refund as such but more abpout shouldbalow the user to simply deletey a building (as well as a unit). For buildings, this goes back to the proposal to extend the destruction process a bit. In fact, what if we need at least one unit commanded to "work" on the building to destroy it, providing a similar benefit as when you destroy your enemy's buildings? This could be exactly the same process as attacking an enemy building (only with a differnt animation possibly). Instead of having a building-cenbtered command "delete" we would need a command to units "destroy my builidng", similar to "build that builidng". This could elegantly take care of my previous question "what if an enemy attacks your building while you were destructing it yourself". The mechanism to arbitrate resources in case of concurrent destruction by two parties attacking the same building is part of the game already (I think/I hope, at least this exists for conquering, never checked for destruction of an enemy builidng together with an ally).

This is one of the many compromises to gameplay we have to make, I guess. Hmm. You are right. So no refund after destruction at all because the same principle applies to buildings, ships, siege engines? To provide a refund, - ships need to go back to the dock (done) - siege engines need to be manned (at least one unit) prior to destruction I believe we agree already on these two. There is no refund for buildings when they are at 100% (finished), ever. From the real world, I believe that old buildings (ruins) were often used as a quarry/resource for erecting new ones, hence I question the rule 100% built- 0% refund. The rule in game (0% built/100% back up to 100% built/0% back) certainly applies to the resources you had originally put aside to construct that building. After it has been built (100%) you spent 100% of resources, so destroying currently means losing all of it. Could refunding be exploited? Not really: You get a higher fraction back if deleting after finalizing it, but you had to invest the 100% before. The only cheat here is, that you benefited form the building's function (e.g. research a new technology) while it was working and still get a refund after its destruction.

@wowgetoffyourcellphoneTHIS IS PHANTASTIC! It is inspiring and providing an athmosphere well aligned with the situation. Could you try and regenerate some of the game's title screen art with such images?

OK, that is exactly what the mod already does (only the animation remains "delete" and does not show selling the ship) Side note: The mod does not provide store-specific credit (which I believe is ok), i.e. when returning a ship, you are getting back a fraction of resources for general purpose. Store credit would mean you get a reduction for your next ship. The remaining question is if a building needs to be garissoned with at least unit in order to allow deletion (mimicking arson). I still have doubts on that concept: burning down your building does definitely not give back much useable resources. Requiring a person to be in placed inside the building to be destroyed appears counter-intuitive to me (this is already strange with a manned tower or siege engine: the crew survives destruction, other than for a ship where they sink together).

Where do we get an arsonist actor with appropriate animation and a burning building animation? Same question regarding dismantling of siege engines. Which actor should we use to illustrate someone working on the siege engine? Frankly, I'd rather park these for a moment and instead generate a new mod version that provides the reduced amoutn of recovered resources and the slightly slower destruction. QUESTION: if destruction is not instantaneous but a process taking a bit of time, how would we deal woth an attack onto that object during that time? Is it not attackable while being destructed, or, probably better, could an attacking enemy grab part of the resources of the destructed building ? (sounds complicated but is probably an interesting gameplay aspect)