[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

Oh, and avoid a shield-boss for the small round shield.. 

Great work though!!! From everybody!!! Art Development is on fire! 

[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

 

1 hour ago, wackyserious said:

How about these? I created an actor file that uses in-game textures, would these do?

Cool, but please, I beg you, remove the zebra hides (black and white shields). If you want something exotic, giraffe-hide is actually ok. Giraffes lived in Kush, and were hunted and exported. They sometimes wore the fur, like leopard pelt. Also, attach it to the shoulders please  (both hands free to hold the pike when attacking)

Here are giraffe hide textures for round shields (public domain: http://www.publicdomainpictures.net/view-image.php?image=39132&picture=giraffe & http://www.publicdomainpictures.net/view-image.php?image=231351&picture=giraffe-skin)

[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

7 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

Simple necklace versions are available too.

Yeah, I think royal necklaces (the big ones) should ideally be reserved for champion units and heroes. I'll try to make some more simple necklace variations a little later if they're useful.

[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

1 hour ago, wackyserious said:

Which round shield would be used by the basic and advanced ranks? Is it the Hellenistic pelte?

Pikemen: Euhm, the tier 1 & 2 versions should have a small round shield, not modelled yet... Tier 3 should get the Egyptian style cowhide shield. I don't know what the shield is made of or how it's decorated :/ I have no idea.. Just the shape I know: round... And it's attached to the shoulder!

Napata relief

 

[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

@wackyserious Simple necklace version 2:

Necklace only

 

4 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

Perfect shield! Perrrrrfect!

Reminds me that we need a different type of prop for the horse crown thing... This example is from Napata:

[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

@stanislas69 Thank youuuu!  Sorry for our nitpicking

 

29 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

Mmmmm, yeeesh  Very good. Tier 2 could also get that hypothetical simple necklace. I'll try to come up with something, I came up with something:

Necklace only:

Good?

 

10 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

I have a non gold version of the shield too @Sundiata but I'm not sure on who should get it.

Wowie... I love it! Luuuve it! I'm running out of compliments guys... It's for the hero Nastasen and champion cavalry. Maybe champion cavalry could get a silver/steel looking variant instead? 

[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

Just now, Nescio said:

Shall we settle at 20% of the length then, just like the relief?

Yes please  

[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

22 minutes ago, Nescio said:

It would be better if the axe was held still closer to the end to make it more effective in combat (cf. the sword's grip).

 

2 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

@Nescio

 Sorry but this is too far... When you hold an axe like that you have maximum strength in your swing, but minimal accuracy. There's a trade off! The previous position was perfect! Perfect balance between strength and accuracy.

[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

26 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

Next will be basic infantry, @Sundiata where should linen corselet start to appear? At advanced rank with no accessories? At elite rank, what would it be? Extra accessories like armbands and necklaces? What about padded clothing?

We need a simple single string bead necklace in addition of the royal beaded necklace we have now.

 

Something like this?

kush_infantry archer & Kush_infantry_spearman (Nubian Units):

tier 1: Bare chest, nothing special. 

tier 2: bare chest, Nubian sash, bronze ankle-bands, ostrich feather in hair (maybe only for archers)

tier 3: try using the tunic wowgetoffyourcellphone created for the Blemmye camel rider, Nubian sash, simple necklace, bronze ankle-bands, 2 or three ostrich feathers (maybe only for archers)

 

Kush_infantry_swordsman:

tier 1: linen corselet

tier 2: linen corselet or that other cloth armour variant, (medium) necklace

tier 3: quilted cotton vest, (medium) necklace, bronze ankle-bands cotton skullcap

 

Kush_infantry_pikeman: check: https://wildfiregames.com/forum/index.php?/topic/22765-kushites-units-unit-textures-and-unit-props/&do=findComment&comment=347005

tier 1: bare chest 

tier 2: linen corselet and other cloth armour

tier 3: quilted cotton armour, almost ankle length loincloth, bronze armbands, cotton skullcap 

 

Feel free to play around with it, to achieve the most authentic feeling combination of things. Lower tier never has armour (except swordsmen because they're cool). Try avoiding the royal necklaces. Good for champions, not so good for regulars.

[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

@stanislas69 Both weapons look perfect to me. Maybe just a little more shine for the Khopesh blade 

 

[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

14 minutes ago, Nescio said:

Archaeology can only provide evidence for what can be found, not for what can't be found or is lost. Or for something intangible, such as no “significant cultural changes”, which to me sounds either arrogant or ignorant.

Dude, I'm not going to refocus my research on the cultural changes in the periphery of Kush over the past 2000 years. That's a thesis right there... Certain things are obvious. They were tall. Perhaps the tallest people in the ancient world. They were known for it then. They are known for it today.. 

14 minutes ago, Nescio said:

however, the axe head shown about a dozen posts earlier was less than 15 cm, so perhaps use that as an indication for the total axe length.

Why do you want to make everything smaller??? lol... The Axe-head depicted in the relief literally directly underneath the image you're referring to is easily 40cm..! The Khopesh could indeed be smaller. Axe is perfect as is.

 

10 minutes ago, wackyserious said:

Any suggestion to enhance our guy Nastasen? Which props should he use? Weapons, shields, plus horse props

That spear/lance alexander made 

 

 

 Ideed, like Wow said, he can have the cobra on the skullcap. He can even have 2 cobras (seriously).

For now he should have the round rhino-hide shield, but ideally, there would be some bronze finishing on the shield (shieldboss and decorated circular cutout on the edge)

[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

7 minutes ago, Nescio said:

Hard to prove for a people with no written history

Why do you think written history (or the lack thereof) proves anything? I rely mostly on the archaeological record. Written history is a nice extra, but it becomes most valuable when it's backed by something tangible. The written history describing the ancestors of Dinka and related populations corroborate the archaeological record. No major changes for thousands of years... They're a stone-age Neolithic holdover, to be blunt, but they are ethnically closely related to the much more advanced Meroites, and recruited/incorporated in significant numbers.

 

Just now, wackyserious said:

@Sundiata One more thing, the one I asked on PM

Quote

What type of hero would Nastasen and Arakamani be? Cavalry? Infantry? Elephant?

Currently they are using Ptolemaic Kingdom placeholders, one Hannibal's elephant and a Royal Agema Cavalry

Sorry, I can't keep up  

• Nastasen: horse
• Arakamani: elephant
• Amanirenas: chariot (just kidding , (not really), or infantry

[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

Just now, wackyserious said:

Did I violated historicity with the gems/player color that I attached to the scale armor?

Absolutely not, it's even more historical like that...

 

 

[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

@stanislas69 If it's not too much effort, Axe and Khopesh could both be sclaled down a little (but I don't think it should be too much)

[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

Just now, Nescio said:

Not at the end, but not half-way either; it looks more like at 20%. Anyway, try it yourself, grap some kind of stick and swing it, trying for different positions, half-way, at a quarter, at the end. You'll notice a significant improvement if you hold it lower.

You're right, I just love teasing you  

 

Just now, Nescio said:

Yes, nowadays. Currently European males are 20-30 cm longer on average than their counter-parts of three centuries ago. While I won't deny individuals could occassionally exceed two metres (e.g. Goliath), I do believe the average length in Antiquity was clearly shorter than it is today.

These are Africans... Some are pygmies, some are giants. In Sudan, they've been tall since the dawn of history. There were Neolithic Saharan populations that easily reached 1.90m... The Dinka that were measured in the study didn't experience significant cultural changes, and no dietary changes for thousands of years... They are the same people. Europeans in general experienced dramatic environmental, dietary, cultural and ethnic changes through the same period which account for the changes in height.

 

4 minutes ago, Nescio said:

Anyway, if the man in question was indeed 1.8 m, then the blade is even more in need of a length reduction

Hmmm, then I won't oppose a (small) length-reduction. Just a little though  

[===[COMMITTED]=== Spears Remesh]

Nice... Thank you  

@stanislas69, @wackyserious that Kushite spear goes with champion cavalry.

[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

Just now, wackyserious said:

So no one will be slightly lighter in skin tone?

 

Just now, wackyserious said:

In your opinion, do they break away from the macro-ethnic composition of the army? Should all Meroitic troops be dark?

 

Please, feel free to play around with skin tones! I'd love to see different tones for the same units. We're just talking generalities here.

 

Just now, Sundiata said:

[Disclaimer], these are very generalist approximations. In reality there is strong overlap between the different groups:

 

[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

@wackyserious

[Disclaimer], these are very generalist approximations. In reality there is strong overlap between the different groups:

 

Nubian: in this context purely geographic, people from the area between the 1st cataract to the 4th cataract. Mixed with Egyptians. Medium skin

Nuba: tribal semi-nomads in the Western desert, sedentary population in Kordofan and Nuba mountains to the South and West of the Kushite heartlands. Dark skin

Meroitic: people from the area's around Meroë, and the surrounding Butana steppe. From 4th cataract to the area's beyond the 6th cataract. Dark skin

Blemmye: Beja people, nomadic Eastern desert dwellers, camel riders "light" skin, but still pretty dark

So:

Kush_camel_javelinist  "light" skin

Kush_cavalry_javelinist Medium skin

Kush_cavalry_spearman Medium skin

Kush_champion cavalry Dark skin

Kush_champion_elephant Dark skin

Kush_champion_infantry Who is this guy?

Kush_champion_infantry_Amun  Medium skin

Kush_champion_infantry_apedemak Dark skin

Kush_hero_amanirenas Dark skin

Kush_hero_arakamani Dark skin

Kush_hero_nastasen Medium skin

kush_infantry archer Medium skin

Kush_infantry_clubman Dark skin

Kush_infantry_merc_javelinist Dark skin

Kush_infantry_pikeman Dark skin

Kush_infantry_spearman Medium skin

Kush_infantry_swordsman Dark skin

Kush_support_female_citizen all skintones

Kush_support_healer Medium skin

 

@Nescio That's not an epsilon axe (which is kind of archaic for this period), it's a Meroitic period Kushite axe (actually Mauryan...)

 

Kushite not holding an axe at the end  

 

Khopesh comes in different sizes. Ours is indeed rather large. I'm not too bothered by it though  

19 minutes ago, Nescio said:

Let's assume an average male was 1.6m

Dinka are sometimes noted for their height. With the Tutsi of Rwanda, they are believed to be the tallest people in Africa. Roberts and Bainbridge reported the average height of 182.6 cm (5 ft 11.9 in) in a sample of 52 Dinka Ageir and 181.3 cm (5 ft 11.4 in) in 227 Dinka Ruweng measured in 1953–1954 -wikipedia-

South Sudanese men can easily surpass 2 meters!

"The Ethiopians to whom Cambyses sent these gifts are reputed to be the tallest and most beautiful of all peoples.” -Herodotus-

[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

@wackyserious

I'll just quote @wowgetoffyourcellphone, because he's spot on! He understands the macro-ethnic composition of Kush...

So Of the 3 skin colors in my PSDs I was going:

Dark: Meroitic, Nuba

Medium: Nubian

Light: Blemmye/Beja

Mind you, "Light" here is still way darker than the other skin colors in the game.

 I assumed the Swordsmen would be Meroitic, along with pikemen, so I made those dark. The infantry spearmen are specifically Nubian as are the archers, so I made those medium. Then there are other units which are specific ethnicities, which are basically already right there in their unit names, such as Blemmye Camelry, light, and Nuba Hunter, dark with lots of ash/paint.

Female citizens I created _light, _medium, and _dark variations since they weren't a specific ethnicity.

 

[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

9 hours ago, stanislas69 said:

With the armor

 

[I guess you'll fix the loincloth though? I know, silly question... And what's up with the saturation on his armbands]

 

5 hours ago, wackyserious said:

Would this work as a texture for the other Kush hero?

 

Yes it will  A suggestion though, for this particular version:

 

 Based on the Egyptian style from which the Kushite scale evolved:

 

 

Just now, wackyserious said:

About to upload this to the mod, any final comments? @Sundiata

MEROITIC SWORDSMEN (Pike infantry will also use this textures following Sundiata's suggestion)

 

Gorgeous!!! BUT, please delete all the zebra hides from anything Kush-related. 

[===[COMMITTED]=== Spears Remesh]

@Alexandermb Oooh, thanks! I think it's ok like that, but of course I have to add my traditional nitpickery:

The largest examples of these spearheads are the size of small short-swords, having an almost oriental feel. I'd suggest increasing the size of the spear head a little bit (but keep the same length for the shaft). The Kushite Royal cavalry will be eternally grateful for that extra inch or two of reach  

 

[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

9 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

No. I just made it.

Wow... 

[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

@stanislas69 Nice... Real nice... Remember that Apedemak's temple guards get the scale corselet. Was that lion head an existing prop?

@LordGood The axe is actually the correct type. Epsilon axe is very archaic by this time, although I agree bronze axe and bronze scale together would look awesome! Style vs historicity, I have no strong feeling about either in this case. Epsilon axe looks better... Current axe is more historical... What to do?

 

[edit]

Kushites were still using bronze axes a lot during our timeframe, so perhaps the current axe could get a bronze re-tuxture to match his bronze scales? Interesting solution, or nah?

[===[COMMITTED]=== Spears Remesh]

@Alexandermb Nice spears... I have a request  

These post-Meroitic spears from el Hobagi would go well with a Kushite Hero horseman 

[===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props]

@wackyserious