Sundiata
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Posts posted by Sundiata
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1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
Surely the pikeman shouldn't have a shield that large
Definitely not, sorry if I was unclear, I was purely talking about the attire. Indeed small round shield is perfect for tier 1 and 2, I think. Then tier 3 get's the Egyptian style cowhide shield stanislass made (same one as the Apedemak's temple guard). Just remember it's attached to the shoulder...
Meroitic Pikeman:
- tier 1: medium length loincloth, bare torso, small round shield
- tier 2: medium length loincloth, cloth armour for torso, small round shield (or Egyptian style cow-hide shield)
- tier 3: ankle-lenght loincloth/robe, quilted cotton vest, Egyptian style cow-hide shield, quilted cotton skullcap
The small round shield could be a scaled down version of the current Ptolemaic placeholders used. Perhaps a simpler, different shield texture is in order?
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Just now, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
Right, the Temple Guard techs could be attack/speed techs [fervor, faithfulness, etc.], while the Noble->Royal techs for the archer and cav could add armor.
I like this...
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Some primary references for the long robes for traders
Highest tier Meroitic Pikeman:
I believe we can do something nice for the pikemen. A few of the reliefs or graffito show a pikeman with a long robes, kind of like the Persian and Egyptian spearmen. Why not give the highest tier pikemen a long white loincloth for the lower body, stretching to the ankles, and a short sleeved (or no sleeves) quilted cotton vest for the torso, quilted cotton skullcap, Egyptian style cowhide shield attached to the shoulder. Basically just like this Egyptian marine in Xerxes army, but Kushified [disregard his shield]:
The Kushite equivalent from Musawwarat:
1 hour ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:Idea. What if they're Noble Archers and Noble Cavalry first, then they have tech that upgrades them to Royal Archers and Royal Cavalry? The Apademak/Amun champs have their own techs, so maybe they could too.
Not too shabby... Though I think temple-guards should have scale armour from the get-go.
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@wackyserious Very cool! I'm assuming Apedemak's faithful? But remember that the prop for his head needs to be a lion's head and not a wolf's head. The shape of the axe is surprisingly appropriate. It looks like a Meroitic period axe. Maybe it's a little too large for a single handed axe though. Maybe you could show us how he looks with the Egyptian style cow-hide shield?
Also, I know this is just detail-nitpicking, but sandals for champion units would be perfect.
Kushite Trader:
And before I forget, Kushite trader still needs to be done. Last time I checked they were using the priest as a placeholder. I suggest that ideally, the trader should wear a long simple white-ish garment, like the Muslim thobe (thawb). I always thought they were a later Arab influence, but the reliefs often show men wearing these long robes, and it's the number 1 traditional outfit for men in Sudan today.. Just don't give them that muslim cap
Kushite trader ideas:
Spoiler
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Just now, wackyserious said:
The necklace was actually underneath the sash, do you want it to be placed above?
Yes
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@wackyserious Dude... Wow... It is love that I'm feeling...
These guys look sooo cool, and close to the reference
I want to see one more thing though. I actually made the decorated sash. I'm sure I'm biased towards my own work, but i think it looks really great, and I'd love for you to incorporate it in your final version (historicity for the win!), I could also do it myself if you give me the updated png:
old vs new
One other thing you might want to change is let the necklace overlap the sash, instead of the sash overlapping the necklace.
For the second one, I think wowgetoffyourcellphone is right. You followed my concept very well, but it does indeed look better if it comes down a little more:
This one can be used as a cloth armour variation for most citizen soldiers
I think Noble Archers (or Meroitic Royal Archers, or whatever) should get the scale corselet like the other champions.
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@wackyserious Also, I think you should increase the size of the individual scales of the arms to match the ones of the body. Scale up the scales
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3 minutes ago, wackyserious said:
Doesn't look right when viewed from a distance
- The scales are supposed to come down to the knees (just above the knees, not half way the thighs)
- It fits tightly to the body, so there needs to be a belt, like in the reference to make it believable
6 minutes ago, wackyserious said:Could I add neck and arm accessories above the armor?
You can. The reference image on the left show him wearing bracelets, necklaces and those strips of cloth around his arm is where armbands would normally go. So I'd say yes. But I'd avoid gold or bronze on top of bronze.
Really nice work though! The units are really starting to shine! I need to urgently sleep now, but I look forward to what you come up with next
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Yeah, I thought so too... But perhaps when you're ready you could provide me the texture png for a full scale armour with the sashes left blank, and I'll give it a shot..
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@wackyserious If you want, you can make 1 version with the sashes and 1 without. The sashes are strips of cloths, with golden figures of gods attached to them...
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Is this love that I'm feeling?
List of units that get this scale armour corselet (champions only):
- Napatan Temple Guard
- Apedemak's Temple Guard
- Meroitic Royal Cavalry
- Meroitc Royal Archer
Full scale armour is for Nastasen and Arakamani (Heroes only):
These are the references:
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@wackyserious Man... That looks so nice... Their champion armour is finally here
- I'd suggest narrowing the leather straps to the top and bottom of the scales, to leave a little more space for the scales themselves.
- I'd really like to see at least 1 more row of scales, even if it means scaling down the current ones a little bit to make it fit
Other than that, fantastic!
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@wackyserious, nope, not too narrow at all, but try this one, minor adjustment to the strap around the chest area:
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@wackyserious, sorry, I messed up his neck, this one should be better:
[edit] another minor mistake, the real final version:
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@wackyserious, nice, much better! I was literally just working on an updated version myself
Comparison:
Could you check if it's any good? Possible variation?
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@wackyserious, well, today is a good day
Nice...
But I still have some remarks:
- Please could you let the shoulder straps narrow towards the shoulder
- The fabric wrapped around the torso should reach no more than 2 cm or so above the nipples. It's to high in your variation
Making a "plain" variation (no bands) would be nice to have as well.
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50 minutes ago, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
No offense but I've answered alllllll of this before ad nauseam.
None taken! I realised this while typing... I'll read up on your proposals a little more when I have time.
30 minutes ago, av93 said:What it's lacking for finishing the civs in the differents mods?
For Kushites, it's mostly art stuff and indigenous names. Some special props would be nice (sitting lion statues, Ram statue on pedestal, the large simple type reddish Meroitic pottery). Other than that I think it's mostly tooling around to find the right combination of things/balancing stuff, other things I know little about.
For other civs, I think Han Chinese are basically finished (correct me if I'm wrong). I think Xiongnu are playable, but don't know exactly what still needs doing.
@Servo I agree with all of that
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1 hour ago, Nescio said:
favours the rich and powerful
Didn't really think about that... It's pretty historical though
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Wow, this could be really useful for casual modders and quick balance tests! Cool...
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2 minutes ago, Nescio said:
That's very easy to do yourself
Well, that's relative...
But indeed. Seems easy enough. I was more interested in your opinions on how it affects gameplay though. Size and training time of armies being determined by resources and not barrack spam.
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Just now, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
Because I don't want to micro individual units in the middle of a battle.
I'd rather micro: charges, formations, facing, flanking, stances, etc.
Me too... But most RTS-players are used to micro individual units. It's been an RTS staple for a very long time and I don't think a lot of people are willing to give that up entirely. How would scout units work? Surely you'd want to micro them. A lot of people like to use single units like an organic outpost. How about women/villagers/eco-units? Spies? traders? priests? I'd love the ability to compose my battalions unit by unit. replacing, adding, removing individual and/or unique units. Just the freedom to play it the way you want: highly organised Hellenic phalanx vs marauding hordes of barbarians. Celts, Iberians, Britons would look a little unnatural if they're all in highly organised Mediterranean style battalions. how would you implement these informal formations? I'd die for a battalion system, I'd just like it to be super-flexible.
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By the way, I think training times in general need to be increased, like
- 1 unit: 30 sec
- 5 units: 60 sec
- 10 units: 1:30 min
- 50 units: 3 min
- 100 units: 4:30 min
Make people actually care about their soldiers. And please just add an eco-only unit/villagers (with 10 sec train time). I don't understand why this is so controversial?! It has nothing to do with anything. Just doesn't make any sense not to have them. It's weird...
Just now, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:Also, if battalions are implemented, training one battalion at a time makes sense. You get something like 24 dudes per battalion if you go by my old battalions proposal.
Yeah, sounds really nice. But one question, why are hard battalions so important for you? What's the benefit of the hard? Just seems like an annoying limitation for people who are used to microing individual units. I suggest you start out without battalions (unorganised hordes, like now). Then you research your battalion-tech and now have access to battalions and all their glorious benefits (you're army evolves). It would make you really appreciate battalions, and the ability to micro individual units wouldn't be hampered if you want to. I think the best way to get a battalion system accepted by the community is if you retain the same flexibility you have right now, with the addition of battalions. An integrated solution, rather than a complete overhaul. Fixing formations will also help battalion systems greatly.
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Just now, wowgetoffyourcellphone said:
Would be even better if hard battalions were implemented.
Yeah, recruiting single units should be reviewed.. Who in the world trains one guy at a time? Not armies, that's who. Armies train battalions/squads/platoons...
By the way, I think I figured out the problem causing barrack-spam, and people training 1 dude each from 20 different barracks at the same time, to take advantage of iffy game-mechanics. please, bear with me:
Currently training times for a basic citizen soldier, example:
- 1 unit: 10 sec
- 5 units: 30 sec
- 10 units: 50 sec
- 50 units: 2:30 min
- 100 units: 4:11 min
I think this is wrong. Training more people shouldn't take more time, it should take less. Training 5 units in 30 sec, and 50 units in 2:30 min, is unnatural, and causes unnatural game-play. If you train more units at a time, you spend much less resources (like time) per unit trained. In the real world, training large batches of units in one time, from 1 facility, is much more time efficient than training 1 unit at a time from many facilities.
If recruitment time for larger batches would only increase nominally (a little extra for logistics), the ability to recruit large armies depends on your resources, and not on how many barracks you spam.
I think it should be something like:
- 1 unit: 10 sec
- 5 units: 20 sec
- 10 units: 30 sec
- 50 units: 1 min
- 100 units: 1:30 min
If you have the resources, why not? Thoughts?
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10 hours ago, Servo said:
I wish I could build a base like that in 0Ad. I don’t care if houses and buildings are big and units are like ants as long as the sizes are real.
I feel you... A sort of city-builder mode... People say this is an RTS and not a city-builder, but I think Pyrogenesis could theoretically handle it, and a lot of people dream of this kind of game (city-builder / civilisation management, with real-time combat). Maybe one day
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===[TASK]=== Kushite Units, Unit Textures, and Unit Props
in Official tasks
Posted
@wackyserious
except, I think the "Strap/sash with ethnic patterns", let's call it "the Nubian sash", should only be used for Nubian units, and perhaps Nuba units, but not the Napatan and Meroitic ones. It's kind of archaic, so it fits well with the more basic units.
so, Nubian Sash for tier 2 & 3 of: