[My impressions and ideas]

I like all of the ideas mentioned. But thinking more about 0 A.D. I have started realizing more and more how difficult some of the "logistical" challenges are in implementing any of them. Because of that, I'm inclined to just stick to the idea of cash crops. If that idea could get worked out and be successfully put in the game, I think it would ad a lot! Sometimes it's better to do just a few things, and do them very good, than it is to do many things, but not so well. 

 

[My impressions and ideas]

Hi, thank you all for reading my post and taking the time to reply. I forgot to mention what I liked most about this game. And that’s the open source nature of this project. The fact that anyone from anywhere can add contributions, and share their thoughts or ideas, and that they will be heard. You are really a lovely community to follow.

 

@Stanislas69: My specs are actually quite laughable. I have a standard 2011 macbook pro 

Processor  2,3 GHz Intel Core i5

Memory  4 GB 1333 MHz DDR3

Graphics  Intel HD Graphics 3000 384 MB

Software  Mac OS X Lion 10.7.5 (11G63)

To be honest, lag becomes noticeable when more than 200 units start moving at the same time, and becomes unpleasant to play when there’s about 500 moving units. I just like to have several “standing armies” of 200 men in different locations around the map, and like to test how many units I can recruit before I’m “forced” to quit. But with a population cap of 300, the game runs surprisingly smooth.

 

Well, even in Gaul, the majority of the population were peasants, “commoners” and slaves who never actually saw military action. Celtic society was ruled by a Celtic elite, kings, nobles and princes, who each ruled their own tribe and oppidum. These tribes could form kingdoms and powerful states. What the exact relation between these Celtic elites and their subjects was, is still a matter of great debate, but it does seem that combat was generally reserved for some kind of elevated class of warriors, derived from the nobility. Even among the Gauls, the majority of the population were non-combatants. Also, in their (proto-) urban centers, like Bibracte or Heuneburg, Celts actually built concentrated rectangular housing, with wooden shingle roofing, as opposed to thatched roofing.

 

Thank you for the advice on mods. ROTE looks beautiful! I really hope it gets officially included. Great work!

 

Kushites differ from Ptolemies in that they have a much stronger Sub Saharan influence, along with preserving ancient Egyptian culture, styles of building and aesthetics. Ptolemies were really a Hellenistic faction, set in Egypt. That doesn’t make them Egyptian. Alexandria, the capital was a major center of Greek culture, not Egyptian. The housing was predominantly Greek style, as in the other two main centers of Ptolemaic culture, “Neucratis” and “Ptolemais Hermiou”. I think the Ancient Egyptian look should be reserved for the Kushites (with some added Sub-Saharan elements), and the Ptolemies should look much more Greek, with some Egyptian influence (mainly the temple). I’ll think about making a design document, but I’ve seen topics on Nubians before, so I’ll check that out first.

 

@Lion.Kanzen: I think “cash crop plantations” is an absolutely fantastic idea. An alternate source of metal for the late game. Should really spice things up.

 

@Libervurto: I don’t think your advice was patronizing at all. Thank you for some useful insights. I know I’m a bit of a megalomaniac. I always want to see things grander and grander!

 

True, that infinite resources would (considerably) lengthen the game. But that’s just one of it’s charms. I think 0AD has much more to offer than 15min skirmishes. The unnecessary, obsessive rush to crush your enemies makes that you can’t really take your time to enjoy the details of the game. It can make for a stressful experience if you just want to get a nice town up and running, before having to fight for dear life, less than 10 min in to it. But maybe a midway option is more attractive. In terms of the forrest growing back: for every 2 trees that are cut, 1 tree grows back. Then wood doesn't deplete so fast, but still depletes eventually. Or perhaps, cut trees can be replanted by a forester, to which you must assign (a max number of) units. I think fishing should have a steady (yet lower) income, than farming. This would prevent harbors and their fishing-boats from becoming useless once the fish are depleted. I think having considerable metal and stone deposits in central (neutral) areas of the maps, could create realistic, natural, battle hotspots. Areas of the map you need to colonize and defend in order to develop and grow. This nurtures strategic thinking. This is opposed to the quick, tactical exploitation and exhaustion of scarce metal and stone deposits, which makes expanding and defending territory a useless exercise once these deposits have been exhausted. I’m talking about the motivation to fight. Especially when all the resources have been depleted, what are you still fighting for? What is the AI fighting for? I understand this only applies in late-game, but that's when I really have my fun.     

 

@Finchj: I stand corrected. Of course natural resources can deplete over time. I guess I meant to comment on the unusually fast rate at which especially mines, and fish stocks are depleted in this game. Some mines have been mined for thousands of years. They don’t usually deplete in a single generation, and they have always been sources of conflict, which is interesting for this game. It gives you something to fight over. I think fishing should be more akin to farming, where you have a slow but steady income of food, for every fishing spot, fished by a set maximum amount of fishing boats (maybe max 2 boats per fishing spot). This would provide you with another reason to achieve naval dominance. Anyway, thank you for your educated response. I didn’t know Macedon benefited from Greek environmental crisis. Interesting…

 

@wowgetoffyourcellphone and @Finchj : I think your ideas are good!

 

Simple version could be “cash crop plantation” or industry for each civ:

 

Athenians, Spartans, Macedonians: Olive Grove

Carthage: Olive grove (or perhaps “international trade embassy”)

Romans, Ptolemies: Vinyard

Gaul: Hemp plantation  

Iberians: Horse breeder

Persians: Cotton plantation

Mauryans: Cinnamon plantation

Seleucids: Date palm plantation

Chinese: Silk production center

 

These would provide you with a modest metal income in the late game, when traders become your only other viable option for metal. They are also less vulnerable than traders, which is why traders should still be more profitable. Also, maybe limit their number to max 5 per player, so you can't just spam them.

 

I also like Finchj’s second set of ideas. 

 

[My impressions and ideas]

Hello there, long time following, first time posting.

 

I’d like to start of by thanking everybody involved in the development of this marvelous game, for doing such an amazing job. The game has been an absolute a joy to play, is loads of fun, and is a more than worthy successor to AOE. In fact I’d go so far as to say it’s way better, and has great potential for becoming even better.

 

Secondly, I’d like to apologize for what might be a rather lengthy post, full of stuff you’ve probably read a million times before, so please bear with me. The reason I might repeat some stuff already brought up in various other topics and discussions, is simply to give some more weight to certain already existing ideas. Also, I’m not a coder or programmer, and could never do what you guys have pulled off.

 

I’ve been playing this game for many years now (almost exclusively single player) and have seen it transform from the buggy, earlier alpha’s when building walls was still a mere fantasy, to the beautiful gem it is today. And I know many years before I even heard of this game, many people were dedicated, and have worked tirelessly to bringing this dream alive. Again, I applaud you all!

 

I just wanted to leave my impressions, ideas and suggestions about this game, as a first time poster. I understand that many things in this game are the way they are for a reason, and I might not always know this reason, so please forgive my noobishness. I do not wish to step on any ones toes, so feel free to disregard any point I raise. I understand they might not all be realistic or feasible, neither do I expect any of them to be implemented. Just my personal thoughts and ideas.

 

So, here I go:

 

1)   AI : I love the AI, for mainly 1 reason. It poses a genuine challenge, which always keeps things interesting. Having said that, I know it’s still a work in progress, and has many glitches. I feel that the AI needs certain basic protocols, that seem logical for a human, which are overlooked. For example, when the AI attacks (early in the game) with a large force, but gets defeated, it will quickly send another, usually inferior force as a second wave, and so on. I think the AI should always hold off an attack, until it’s numbers are stronger than the previous failed attack. This would help with the perception that the AI is just overly aggressive without any reason or logic. Also, it tends to keep attacking the same positions over and over again, which makes placing fortifications a no-brainer. If it gets defeated at the same location for more than 3 times, it should really automatically start thinking about attacking form another (less fortified) angle. I would also love to see it build new “towns” in conquered territories, so it isn’t so vulnerable when attacked at it’s “capital”, as well as build walls to protect its “investments”.  It would be really nice to see the AI build a planned and highly concentrated, walled area. Also, gatherers in general, whether AI, or your own, should never forage in enemy territory, unless explicitly ordered to do so. Neither should troops belonging to the AI nor yourself, decide (on their own accord) to attack enemy units when those enemy units are in their own territory, by default. I hate those accidental skirmishes that end up being Armageddon type battles for survival.

 

2)   Scale: I love everything on a large scale, as I am sure many of you do to. I regularly play with a population of over 2000 in late game (although lag becomes unbearable at that point), and I am genuinely impressed with the ability of the game to handle so many units. But as technology evolves, processors become more powerful, bugs are fixed and the mechanics of the game are streamlined, I would love to see even more, even grander things. Bigger, more realistic maps, able to support populations of thousands on either side, with ease… No fixed population caps anymore. I know… I’m a dreamer…

 

3)   Citizen soldiers : I know it’s a controversial subject, so I’m sorry to bring it up. I believe, as many others that this original feature is actually historically inaccurate, and compromises the potential for amazing gameplay. Having a larger civilian population from which you recruit military units would be much more realistic, and interesting. You can retain the citizen soldiers, but they should never exceed the “civilian population” (which includes slaves and serfs), which have historically always been (significantly) larger in every civilization featured in 0AD.

 

4)   Economy & Population: I believe economy is the least developed aspect of the game, and I feel that it could be made a lot more immersive, and realistic, without necessarily becoming needlessly complicated. Try to think of an arcade version of the old classics like Pharaoh, or Ceasar, The Settlers III & IV, but also more contemporary games like banished or the Anno series. 0AD fundamentally differs form these games in that it is a base-builder, and not a city builder. But I think it can be a lot more than “just” a base builder. Perhaps a town builder. Imagine reserving micromanagement of units specifically for military units. Instead of micro managing hundreds of individual, static units, imagine managing a working population, automatically going about their assigned jobs, governed by an AI. Workplaces that need laborers, markets that need produce to sell, raw materials that need to be transported to the “industries” that need them. A population that needs “services”, like taverns and pubs, cultural venues like theatres, temples and shrines to different gods, courthouses etc... A population that naturally expands through immigration and new births (as long as new, or upgraded housing is provided). How about a coin based system, in which wood, food, metal and stone are only some of the many goods produced, and required for building, upgrading and recruiting. Things like leather, linen, wool, milk, coal, clay (for making bricks and pottery), fabrics, jewelry, a variety of agricultural products, fish, tools etc… And all these goods would have a coin value. I also think having fixed, non-depletable resource points would be an extremely interesting  thing from a strategic point of view. It would give you, the player, and the AI a really good reason to fight. Resources such as metal (which I’d rather see split in gold and Iron ore), should be mined from set locations, in some rocky hills, or alluvial mine fields. Farming should only be done on fertile lands (as opposed to the middle of the desert (which is possible now). Hunting on hunting grounds, where game automatically replenishes (through new births). Stone from a stone quarry. Logs from forests that slowly grow back over time, fish from anywhere in the ocean. All these things don’t just deplete in real life, so why should they in the game? Rather than managing finite resources, you should manage the constant supply and demand of resources and goods. Why not introduce fixed trade routes, not unlike AOEIII, where foreign traders are spawned at the edge of the map, and travel to the other edge trading at available trading posts as they go. And all this economic activity should bring in direct revenue, (e.g. goldmine or export of specialized goods), or indirect revenue in the form of taxes (coin), which would in turn be used to maintain services, building projects, research and your military.  

 

5)   Maps : I love many of the maps in the game, and many have clearly been made with a lot of care and attention to detail. All I can say is that I prefer the most realistic looking maps, with real topographical features and diverse biotopes. Also, the bigger the better. I feel that on larger maps, attacking your enemies feels like a real campaign. Small maps feel unbearably unrealistic to me. Who builds their town right next to their enemies’ town?? Anyway, realism, naturalism and size are definitely the way to go for 0AD’s maps.

 

6)   Buildings : I love diversity in a game, and I think 0AD could use (even) more diversity in building types and variations. With a more expanded and advanced economy come many new specialized buildings from which new technologies can be researched. Also more eye-candy, such as decorations, statues, parks and plazas are always welcome to jazz up your town. The ultimate goal should be to create a beautiful and realistic looking, functional town, bustling with life, on one hand, and conquering your enemies town(s) on the other hand. Adding animations to any building that has employees or is garrisoned, together with the hustle and bustle of raw materials and finished goods being whisked back and forth from storage yards to workplaces, would really bring the town alive. I think houses should be able to upgrade (just 3 levels in total) based on the services you’ve provided in your city. Higher level houses can then accommodate a higher population.  Also, I think the building “barracks” should be split in to 3 distinct buildings: “Melee Infantry barracks”, “Ranged infantry barracks” and “Stables”. I think that would make more sense. Stables should always be necessary before recruiting cavalry. Some more buildings for variety and economic realism could include a siege workshop, Iron smelter, weapon smith, tool smith, leatherworks, weavers, storage yard, granary, slaughterhouse, herbalist, huntinglodge, fresh-water well, a variety of differentiated farms, claypit, brickmaker, potter, jeweler, work-camp, logging-camp, sawmill, charcoal maker, and of course, every city/town needs a proper palace, as well as a central (ceremonial) square. But mainly a palace…

 

7)   Military : I won’t say much about this subject, because I know it is still a work in progress. All that I will say is that the Total War series, by far, have some of the most realistic battle mechanics of any game. It would be really awesome to see a simplified (arcade) version of those mechanics implemented in this game.

 

8)   Random stuff : Why is the wonder for the Celts Stonehenge? Don’t get me wrong, I think it is one of the prettiest  wonders in the game, but lacks historical accuracy. Stonehenge was originally erected more than 2 millennia prior to the arrival of Celtic culture in Great Britain. I know that no more civilizations will be added to the current game, but I’d still like to argue for the official inclusion of the Chinese, as well as the kingdom of Kush, whose capital was ancient Meroe (the Nubians). The Chinese traded extensively (though indirectly) with the Mediterranean world, as well as with Mauryan India, the Middle Eastern states and East Africa, including Kush, establishing official diplomatic relations with many of them. The Kingdom of Kush also traded directly with Ptolemaic Egypt, the Middle Eastern states, India and later with Rome itself, being one of the largest centers of steel production in the ancient world. The Kushites also actively waged wars against Ptolemaic Egypt, Rome and Persia, directly anchoring it in the same geopolitical sphere of influence. They built (modestly sized) pyramids, large Egyptian style temple complexes, complex urban centers, employed war elephants (sometimes imported from India), developed distinct writing systems and many more exciting things. Often overlooked in other games, the Kushites would really add some beautiful diversity to an already beautiful game. I believe the Ptolemaic faction should have more Hellenistic characteristics, and its current ancient Egyptian look, would suit the Kushites better, who copied many ancient Egyptian elements in their culture.

 

If you managed to read through all that, congratulations. I thank you for your patience and interest. I’d like to reiterate that I know that many of my suggestions may not be feasible. I just wanted to share my personal dreams for 0 A.D. What I think would make this game one of the greatest in history J