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dmzerocold

In-game voice structure (list)

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Dear All

I prepared below list (sheet) regarding the voice structure in-game, i suggest this structure to be implemented in-game. please review the list and share your feedback :) if there is any command is missing please let me know to include

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ze2SBTjKxMTbAVMDUmJIAwjDLXFJy2kNzXzkI3wwP7U/edit?usp=sharing

 

Questions and comment

C: i didnt add capture unit / thief / assasins in this list ... i think you wanna add these later, so when its delivered on DEV i will update this list

Q1: i noticed persian traders , are camels only :) any plan to add a person beside them ? similar to other factions ,

Q2: Persian traders cannot garrison into unit (ram ..) but other factions traders , with horse can for example Macedonia ... it shouldn't right? if Persian trader cant , others also should not have this option

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5 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

You have many topics in a single topic, I mean by the title.

 

Actually, main topic is the list. have you had chance to go through it ? may i have your comment?

5 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

Q1: must be, related to Art department

Noted :)

5 hours ago, Lion.Kanzen said:

 Q2 : "bug" 

Do i need to report it separately ? or mentioning it here is enough ? 

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20 minutes ago, dmzerocold said:

Actually, main topic is the list. have you had chance to go through it ? may i have your comment?

Noted :)

Do i need to report it separately ? or mentioning it here is enough ? 

Q2 : is weird because all merchants use same parent template. @stanislas69 I'm sure you can solve this. if is parent related. 

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19 minutes ago, stanislas69 said:

Q1 I believe so ( that it will have a trader). See @Alexandermb's work towards camels.

 

is this topic closed? i mean solution clarified ? or it is still open

 

@stanislas69 may i ask for your feedback about the list as well ? if its related to someone else to comment on it could you please let me know?

Edited by dmzerocold

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1 hour ago, dmzerocold said:

Is this topic closed? i mean solution clarified ? or it is still open

To be completely honest with you, I have no clue.

1 hour ago, dmzerocold said:

may i ask for your feedback about the list as well ? if its related to someone else to comment on it could you please let me know?

The list reads nice, and sounds like a good idea on paper. But in these times of doubt ain't nothing like a real example such as a mod. :)

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Hello guys

Thanks for the game, it is very great.

As "stanislas69" said the goal is to have all civic to speak their original language. To have a realistic game.

However, players need to understand the voices. To know what is happening in the game.

For instance 

The word " taxšamiy" means  "i will build" in Persian it is said  "misazam" 

And for all words and sentences it has the same scenario. So as a player i am forced to set the game to English to understand it. 

I have got an opinion.

To have 2 options for each class. A-the ancient language. B-the modern language. 

I know the work will be doubled but it will cover both ideas.

Thanks mates

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On ‎10‎/‎1‎/‎2018 at 12:52 AM, Bab2c said:

Hello guys

Thanks for the game, it is very great.

As "stanislas69" said the goal is to have all civic to speak their original language. To have a realistic game.

However, players need to understand the voices. To know what is happening in the game.

For instance 

The word " taxšamiy" means  "i will build" in Persian it is said  "misazam" 

And for all words and sentences it has the same scenario. So as a player i am forced to set the game to English to understand it. 

I have got an opinion.

To have 2 options for each class. A-the ancient language. B-the modern language. 

I know the work will be doubled but it will cover both ideas.

Thanks mates

Translation and voice in game are same thing. 

We haven't enough volunteers to use modern languages. If we start to English then the second must be Spanish... 

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This list is a good idea, but I do not know how practical it is.

Remember that there is no promise we can get different voice actors for each type of unit. People will probably continue to show up, record a bunch of lines, then leave. It's not like we have a chance to "audition" people for certain voice characteristics- whatever people choose to give to the project is what we have to work with for voices.

Also keep in mind that there are many different replies currently used when a unit is selected, such as-

  • Hello
  • My Lord/King/Liege
  • Yes?
  • What is it?

Similarly, when ordered to move, several different replies may occur:

  • Yes.
  • My Lord/King/Liege
  • I will go

The way these switch is randomly decided in the game, so it makes the voices much more enjoyable than them just saying one thing when you order the unit around. Similarly easy and practical would be to record more than one inflection of the same word, which also adds variation.

I think the easiest thing for people would be just a numbered, standardized list of all the words we need recorded, which is then translated as needed into each language. I do not think we should have more than, maybe 30 lines, to keep it from being too complex.

To determine that list, we first need to identify every interaction the player may have with a unit, and then determine if that interaction warrants having a separate term for it. For example, if the player orders some units to change formation, should they say something like "We will assume the formation" or is a simple "Yes, my king!" enough? Other interactions may even need several terms if they happen frequently. You have already done a good job listing most of these interactions.

So, the interactions as you have listed already in your sheet:

  • Selection
  • Gather
    • Food
      • Hunt
      • Fish
      • Forage
      • Farm
    • Stone (mine)
    • Wood (cut)
    • Metal (mine/gather)
  • Build
  • Repair
  • Garrison
    • Building
    • Ship (Embark)
    • Siege Weapon/Unit
  • Attack
  • Move
  • Capture
  • Guard
  • Patrol
  • Special (only used by a small number of units, so they can be of less priority)
    • Heal
    • Trade
    • Pack/Disassemble
    • Unpack/Set Up

Keeping in mind that Selection, Move, and Attack will account for about 50% of the gameplay experience, they should be prioritized with variation of at least 3 different lines each. The remaining lines (19) probably only need one line each.

For example:

  • Selection
    1. Yes?
    2. At your command
    3. My lord!
    4. What do you need?
  • Move
    1. Yes!
    2. By your command
    3. I will go
  • Attack
    1. I will attack!
    2. Charge/Advance! [localized battle-cry]
    3. For [Rome/hearth/family/the King/Kingdom, etc.]! [localized battle-cry]
  • I will hunt
  • I will fish
  • I will forage/gather food
  • I will farm
  • I will mine stone
  • I will cut wood
  • I will mine/gather metal
  • I will build
  • I will repair
  • I will garrison
  • I will embark
  • I will occupy [the siege weapon (unit)]
  • I will capture [the building]
  • I will guard
  • I will patrol
  • I will heal
  • I will trade
  • I will pack/prepare to move
  • I will unpack/set up the weapon

So not to make things too repetitive (although it probably makes translations harder), it might also be good to substitute the wording of a phrase or two for something more interesting or culturally/historically relevant. For example, 'I will heal' may be replaced by 'The gods will grant good health', 'I will repair' by 'It will be fixed', etc.

 

So then someone would basically just have to take this list and translate it, then people can record straight down the list in the language(s) they choose. This makes it easy for people who just want to know what to record. :)

Edited by Samulis

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I hope you enjoyed your trips :)

1 hour ago, Samulis said:

whatever people choose to give to the project is what we have to work with for voices.

completely agree with you, but we can make a proper structure so people contribute based on a structure :) 

1 hour ago, Samulis said:

I think the easiest thing for people would be just a numbered, standardized list of all the words we need recorded, which is then translated as needed into each language. I do not think we should have more than, maybe 30 lines, to keep it from being too complex.

 

 

Agree with you, yes currently in my list some actions have 1 voice :) but there is no limitation we can add more lines for each action

Actually for me at this step, the important part was to identify all possible actions and give them at least 1 voice , just to say we built our voice structure then we can add more lines even more voices for the same lines

if you can give me your Gmail ,i can give you access to list to edit 

For now, the big question for me is if there is anyone available/willing to implement this structure or not :)

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6 hours ago, Samulis said:

This list is a good idea, but I do not know how practical it is.

Not all behave the same. Where there is one phrase in English, there might be dozens in another language, each for a specific situation. Just one example: English and most modern European languages have "yes" and "no"; Latin, Greek, and other ancient languages don't.

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3 hours ago, Nescio said:

Not all behave the same. Where there is one phrase in English, there might be dozens in another language, each for a specific situation. Just one example: English and most modern European languages have "yes" and "no"; Latin, Greek, and other ancient languages don't.

Ita vero, but that is something for translation, not a matter for a master list. For example, translating 'Yes?' into Latin might read more literally as "What is it?" (Quid est?). They have the same connotation/contextual meaning in language, but are localized to fit in the grammar and culture of each language. All good translations are not just simple word-for-word swaps, but rather translate the meaning behind the words above the actual text.

Regardless, my main issue with the proposed restructuring is that it infers we will be specifically hiring or casting people for specific roles. I just don't think this will happen. Perhaps someone will perform some lines and sound like a hero or something, and we will then implement those lines as 'hero' lines, but I don't think we will be able to actively plan ahead different voices or even different sets of lines for different units beyond simple exceptions and additions. As it stands right now, I think we'll be very lucky to have at least one male & one female voice in each language within the next two years, especially the more extinct languages.

I think anyone showing up on the 0AD project, wishing to record voices, just wants to see a list. They don't want to scroll through spreadsheets, dig through forums, pick a unit, have a debate, etc.. They just want to be told "here are the 20-30 lines you should record", and judging by how few voices we've had implemented and recorded so far, I think we need to simplify this process rather than make it any more complicated.

So, while this restructure isn't a bad idea, it is my opinion that there is nothing broken about our current list that makes it so we must replace it, we just need more terms added and translated and clean up a few that aren't relevant, then standardize it and put it somewhere everyone can see/access, updating instructions to simplify the process and comply with our current workflow. Right now the information is there, it's just scattered and not all in agreement.

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This is a great conversation about organizing the structure of lines. Yes, voice actors may just want a simple list, but a heirarchical organization of lines that allows for more detail to be added sounds like a good idea. It needs to be clear what is the bare minimum, but these added details sound awesome to me. Perhaps an ideal solution is to have the "simple list" that covers everything needed and then a "detailed spreadsheet" that helps the overachievers add character, situation, or other contextual variation.

 

Firstly though: I can't find any docs for how voice actors, musicians, etc can contribute. Shouldn't there be a section on 0ad.com/participate or at least a page in the wiki? As someone who was bothered by the lack of variation in voices and am still trying to figure out how I can help fix it: maybe this is a big part of why the pool of voice actors is small.

Edited by 7yl4r
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@7yl4r Thanks for your interest in contributing. The Sound art department is a bit strange because it only has one member which is also a composer and the department lead. Most, if not all the sound stuff should go through him. Recently @Samulis joined the forums which allowed us to move some steam of @OmriLahav. In time I hope @Samulis will join us in the team and clean the repository. Until then though reviewing contributions will be tricky but totally doable.

When in doubt ask Stan (That's me)

 

@Itms he is right on the fact we maybe should advertise sound contributions on the website :)

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