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SGK7019

Why so many Alpha stages?

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I was wondering, why is the game still in Alpha and hasn't moved to Beta yet? I don't really know how the two stages work, but other games I have seen in Alpha moved on to Beta sooner. Is there a particular reason for this, or is there a catch that I don't get?

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The original (as far as I know) definition of Alpha/Beta stage is to use the Alpha stage to implement the features that the game needs, and the Beta phase for fixing bugs. Nowadays it seems like many developers don't really follow these definitions however (especially with many games continuing to add features even after the game has been released).

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@feneur explained this several times, one is the pathfinder issues and optimization, other are basic implementation aren't ready... yet.

Just now, feneur said:

The original (as far as I know) definition of Alpha/Beta stage is to use the Alpha stage to implement the features that the game needs, and the Beta phase for fixing bugs. Nowadays it seems like many developers don't really follow these definitions however (especially with many games continuing to add features even after the game has been released).

Almost same time.

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Just now, SGK7019 said:

Ah, I see. Are there any plans for transitioning to Beta? As in a roughly estimated date?

We haven't even date for each alpha releases, this depends volunteers works. but still in developing its an advantage... you can have a game with many features and very polish art and content that even triple haven't in vanilla.

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22 minutes ago, Nescio said:

The permanent alpha stage is actually one of 0 A.D.'s greatest assets. I hope it'll never be finished :)

I'm curious to know why you think so :) I agree it's a very positive thing for us when people realize we still aim at something even better, but on the other hand at some point we have to create something that is complete and officially released for the general public, don't you think? We will still have Part 2 to start working on, if what you are afraid to miss is the ability to follow developments.

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53 minutes ago, Nescio said:

The permanent alpha stage is actually one of 0 A.D.'s greatest assets. I hope it'll never be finished :)

 apparently weaker point becomes strong, if we exploit that in our advertising or media we can get more people. the YouTuber "Master of Roflness"  get this idea of permanent support/content  like a service.

In advertising media exists a similar case of Listerine.

http://business.time.com/2011/10/11/14-products-with-notoriously-misleading-advertising-claims/slide/listerine/

https://books.google.hn/books?id=d_GIBahYbfIC&pg=PA74&lpg=PA74&dq=advertising+study+case+listerine+hurts&source=bl&ots=LM3hQ-jPMG&sig=etdc09vV19rUH-abt7LM6Sz84ms&hl=es-419&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiGtbj0wNjYAhWDmuAKHTHFA9EQ6AEINDAB#v=onepage&q=advertising study case listerine hurts&f=false

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50 minutes ago, Itms said:

I'm curious to know why you think so :) I agree it's a very positive thing for us when people realize we still aim at something even better, but on the other hand at some point we have to create something that is complete and officially released for the general public, don't you think? We will still have Part 2 to start working on, if what you are afraid to miss is the ability to follow developments.

Check the 6th. 6:45

Edited by Lion.Kanzen
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14 hours ago, Itms said:

I'm curious to know why you think so :) I agree it's a very positive thing for us when people realize we still aim at something even better, but on the other hand at some point we have to create something that is complete and officially released for the general public, don't you think? We will still have Part 2 to start working on, if what you are afraid to miss is the ability to follow developments.

This never-ending development is indeed one of 0AD's strong suits in my opinion.. How good it may be, it can always get better. Of course we should aim for a "complete and officially released" game, but that doesn't necessarily mean development should ever stop. I plan on playing this game on the holodeck with my grandkids :) 

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On 14/01/2018 at 10:58 PM, Itms said:

I'm curious to know why you think so :) I agree it's a very positive thing for us when people realize we still aim at something even better, but on the other hand at some point we have to create something that is complete and officially released for the general public, don't you think? We will still have Part 2 to start working on, if what you are afraid to miss is the ability to follow developments.

Alpha means everything is still possible and anything could be changed.

Beta means the focus is on bug fixing and balancing, but not new features.

Officially complete means you can not expect any improvement. A few examples:

 

RTW has non-working features (e.g. morale), a dumb AI (weak cavalry charging head-on into a pike formation), and a complete lack of balance (economy increases exponentially with the number of cities; once you have acquired enough territory the scales tip in your favour and you can fight the whole world simutaneously and still win).

AoE was a great game but partially unfinished, RoR was also released prematurely. AoK had new features but broke balance, TC just added content. AoM was balanced, but TT was of lower quality. Now, about twenty years later, they have been re-releasing these games. But did they actually solve any of the issues the original games had? No.

 

Therefore I believe we should treasure 0 A.D.'s permanent alpha status.

Edited by Nescio
ce
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17 minutes ago, LordGood said:

Once we run out of letters maybe we'll have to move on to beta, then gamma, delta ect

Technically Gamma is final product :) it it wouldn't change much to use Greek letters :P

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2 minutes ago, SGK7019 said:

But you already are, with alpha and beta, aren't you?

Close one letter to rule them all Z like Zauron or ZeOneRing :P

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1 minute ago, SGK7019 said:

I'm not really following, are we talking about game stages or Alpha names of a historically significant person, like Alpha 22 Venustas?

Lordgood was joking we won't go into beta just because we will run out of letters ;)

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1 hour ago, SGK7019 said:

I'm not really following, are we talking about game stages or Alpha names of a historically significant person, like Alpha 22 Venustas?

are ancient names, is similar to other software releases like Linux and Osx based in theme or topic (Leopard, Lion, etc) or (Ada, Barbara, Cassandra)

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux_Mint_version_history

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On 14/01/2018 at 12:06 AM, Imarok said:

I guess at some point (2 years?) we just might decide to call it beta...

We're starting to be more careful with the estimates. We used to have such ETA for the final release! :)

--- Day changed Sun Jan 29 2012
<...>
21:47 < Igorel> hi all
21:47 < Igorel> when will be the relise of  0 A.D.
21:47 < Igorel> ?
21:47 < Igorel> final realese?
21:48 < quantumstate> we don't know yet, possibly about a years time
21:48 < erik_feneur1> Probably some years into the future.
21:48 < quantumstate> I may be being too optimistic
21:49 < erik_feneur> I've learned not to be too optimistic. Jason said "perhaps within a year or two" when I joined in 2007 =)
<...>
21:59 <@Philip`> It was "perhaps within a year or two" when I joined in 2004 :-)

 

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Just now, fcxSanya said:

We're starting to be more careful with the estimates. We used to have such ETA for the final release! :)


--- Day changed Sun Jan 29 2012
<...>
21:47 < Igorel> hi all
21:47 < Igorel> when will be the relise of  0 A.D.
21:47 < Igorel> ?
21:47 < Igorel> final realese?
21:48 < quantumstate> we don't know yet, possibly about a years time
21:48 < erik_feneur1> Probably some years into the future.
21:48 < quantumstate> I may be being too optimistic
21:49 < erik_feneur> I've learned not to be too optimistic. Jason said "perhaps within a year or two" when I joined in 2007 =)
<...>
21:59 <@Philip`> It was "perhaps within a year or two" when I joined in 2004 :-)

 

We plan more features with the time, but that is good for players , more content all free and open.good quality, nice support and the project becomes more bigger.

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Because 0 A.D. is still in development, and what the full release of Part 1 Empires Ascendant will look like still isn't known quite yet. The decision to add the Successors and Mauryans, split the Hellenes into the Athenians, Spartans, and Macedonians, and the Celts into the Britons and Gauls, were both rather sudden changes. If I am not mistaken, some work has gone into triggers, which are a major roadblock for campaigns and are technically planned for Part 2 Empires Besieged. With that development, I honestly wouldn't be shocked if campaigns for Empires Ascendant were revisited eventually, which would probably lead to the inclusion of the Thebans.

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Just now, Zeta1127 said:

Because 0 A.D. is still in development, and what the full release of Part 1 Empires Ascendant will look like still isn't known quite yet. The decision to add the Successors and Mauryans, split the Hellenes into the Athenians, Spartans, and Macedonians, and the Celts into the Britons and Gauls, were both rather sudden changes. If I am not mistaken, some work has gone into triggers, which are a major roadblock for campaigns and are technically planned for Part 2 Empires Besieged. With that development, I honestly wouldn't be shocked if campaigns for Empires Ascendant were revisited eventually, which would probably lead to the inclusion of the Thebans.

Personally I want Numidians and Pontus, Yugurta and Mithridates, classic enemies of Rome.

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